The decline of shotshell reloading?

[PJR]

Is shotshell reloading becoming the preserve of die-hard traditionalists (read old farts) and eccentrics?

Of the many shooters I know personally I can think of a handful (including me) that reload on a regular basis. Most of the younger shooters I know have never reloaded.

One of the standard acquisitions for a serious clay shooter 20 years ago was a reloader because there were real savings to be had. Today low cost 12 gauge loads like Federal Top Gun, Remington Gun Club and Winchester Super Target make reloading less attractive. Even the premium factory shells haven’t increased much in price. A box of Winchester AA doesn’t cost much more than 15 years ago.

In my own case I returned to reloading 12 gauge after a lay off of a few years because I couldn’t consistently find the target load that I wanted and because I like to make light 7/8 loads for my sxs. However, given the price of factory shells both premium and promo I’d be very reluctant to starting loading 12 gauge if I didn’t already have the equipment. It would take me many hundreds of boxes just to recoup my initial investment.

There are still genuine savings to be had loading .410 and 28 gauge but despite the delightful qualities of the 28 gauge there aren’t many people shooting it compared to the 12. In my own case I wasn’t shooting the 28 in a volume significant to justify reloading and only started when a deal on a loader came up that I couldn’t refuse.

Years ago it was common to have conversations (sometimes spirited) about the merits of various shotgun powders or hulls. Today these discussions are rare. In the old days a shooter who dropped AA hulls on the ground was either new to the sport or wealthy. Today it’s not unusual to find AA hulls scattered around the sporting clays station where I shoot and it’s not a rich man’s club by any definition.

I like reloading because it allows me to shoot what I want and not depend on what the factory wants to provide. It’s a pleasant activity and time far better spent than glued to the TV. It also provides me with a more personal connection to shotgunning and it just feels that extra touch better to shoot well with your own reloads than with factory.

It saddens me somewhat that reloading is not as popular as it once was. I’d hate to think that the new generation of shotgunners might think that American Select was a new reality show or that 700X was a porno flick.

Are you noticing the same trends? Is shotshell reloading on the decline where you shoot?

 

[3 gun]

I truly think you answered your own question. I do what to most shooters is a lot of shotgunning, over 3K a year, but don't reload. Value packs and loss leader sales make my level of shooting possible. The cost and space needed for a proper set up make the breaks even point far to far into the future. What would be nice is finding a veteran reloader who could show me the ropes and "trade" off press time for trips to the range or something along that thinking.

 

[RNB65]

Yes. I used to reload all my shotshells. Now I can get decent new shells at Wally World for $4.00 a box and spend my evenings relaxing rather than chasing shotshell components. My MEC is sitting in a box in a closet and I don't miss it.

 

[ArmedBear]

I've hit on a great load that's relatively cheap.

And yes, it does shoot the crap out of cheap Wally World shells, and for a bit less money, and I intuitively adjust to any distance with it. That matters when you belong to a club that's fond of Progressive Wobble rounds, Annie Oakleys, Buddy Shoots, etc. at 27 yards.

If you shoot at 16, you won't notice the difference. At 21, you probably won't. Past that, the quality of shot matters, and the velocity matters.

Reloading isn't particularly hard. If you approach it as a chore, it will seem like a chore. If it's part of the sport/hobby, it's meditative. If you make a load that works great for you, but you can't just buy from the store, then you're stuck.

And if you shoot super high volume, you can get some pretty good reloaders that turn out shells so fast, it's actually quicker than running to Wal-Mart.

The old guys I know who reload have the cash to buy shells. They're just really good shots who can tell the difference between crap and good shells, who want their favorite loads, and who have reloading setups that make it relatively easy anyway.

WRT Wally World's stuff, the Winchester cheapies are junk and the Federals make me cough. Remingtons are far and away the best, but they're usually a tad more money, too, and more likely to be sold out at the local store.

 

[MCgunner]

Light loads at Wallyworld are too cheap. I never cared much for shot shell reloading anyway. There's no exterior ballistics to mess with, or not as technical. I always got off to the drop tables, remaining energy, etc, with rifle loading and striving for accuracy and such. You don't get into that with shot shells. And, you have to stick directly to the recipe right down to the brand and model of wad and such. It's reloading for the mentally handicapped. IOW, it ain't no fun. Now, it ain't even cheap! The final straw for me, because 80 percent of my shotgunning is for waterfowl, was steel shot. I ain't gonna mess with steel shot. And, the price of steel shot loads has come down, too.

 

[ArmedBear]

you have to stick directly to the recipe right down to the brand and model of wad and such.

No wonder you quit.

 

[Hoppy590]

its funny you mentioned it. im looking into starting to reload, not as my main source of ammo but as a supplement/ something to do. im a young guy, and fairly new to shotgunning in general. sure i used to do my fair share of turkey shoots and once tried trap (wich i sucked at). i believe i talked my dad into trying some pheasant hunting

anyway. i believe as people get more interested in the process of 'gunnin. the technology,the processes,and the history over the guns themselves and shiney things, interest in reloading might return.

 

[Father Knows Best]

Not cost effective for most people

Reloading shotshells is indeed not cost effective for most shooters, even those who shoot "a lot" of trap, skeet and clays. A decent progressive press set-up is expensive to begin with, and component costs (and the hassle of getting them, depending on where you live) can be significant. Then you need the space to set it all up, and the time to use it! When you can buy decent factory loads for $3/box, why bother?

That said(tm), I reload shotshells. I do it for two reasons. First and foremost -- I enjoy it. My wife says that I shoot to support my reloading hobby. Reloading is "my time" alone in the basement, away from the kids. I enjoy turning out handcrafted ammo, whether it is pistol cartridges for practice and action games (I load thousands upon thousands annually on a Dillon RL550B) or rifle rounds (RCBS Rockchucker) or shotshells (Dillon SL900). I take pride in doing it myself, and that pride is worth something even if I don't see a penny in monetary savings.

The second reason is that I'm a black powder freak, and black powder ammo is hard to find and very expensive when you do find it. Black powder shotshells are only available in limited loads from a couple of sources, and cost $12/box and up. I assemble several custom loads for a fraction of that cost.

Like you, I've noticed how easy it is to get premium hulls these days. Back in the 1970s, I was a "pit boy" at the local trap and skeet club. Everyone reloaded back then, including my dad. Most guys saved their hulls. My last job at the end of a night of shooting was to reload the throwers in the skeet houses, and then collect whatever hulls were left laying around the trap and skeet fields. The club bagged and sold the hulls to reloaders.

When I started shooting trap and skeet again a few years back, I was shocked that nobody seemed to be saving their hulls. At first, I asked a few guys if I could have their AA's or STS's, and was thrilled when they said yes. Then I realized that nobody but me wanted them. When the club cleans up, all of the hulls on the ground just go in the trash! I went out one morning and collected almost a thousand new-looking AA hulls from the fields and the sporting clays course.

 

[ArmedBear]

BTW I have no particular desire to reload for hunting. I don't go through enough #6 shells to make it worthwhile to buy a bag of shot. Steel, even less so.

For around $3.75/box total -- less than the CHEAPEST crap shells at Wally World here -- I shoot shells that work better for me than STS, with top-quality shot in them. STS costs me close to $6/box at Wal-Mart, with sales tax. And I enjoy it. My time may be worth more, but I don't really want to lie on the counch anyway; it's a hobby, not just a frugal chore.

 

[dfaugh]

Like someone else said, i think you've answered your own question. I remember when I first start shooting (circa 1971) a box of shotshells wan maybe $3.00 or a little less. Now they are $4 or less...So the cost hasn;t increased much at all. I can see reloading if you shoot ALOT, but for many people is' probably not economiacly viable.

 

[sm]

PJR,

Great Post and great questions.

Personally I am "semi-retired" from Reloading. Meaning, being an older returning student with time retraints, I do not shoot , compete as I once did. Nor do I assist with the numbers of folks in instruction or even hunting.

I do still assist with a smaller select group of students. It is NOT about me shooting as this "dimension" in my life, instead it is about passing forward as passed to me.


Reloading is part of what I pass forward.

Scroll down to "Reloading" on a recent post I did at TFL.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2042697&postcount=8

Reloading was passed forward to me in many ways; as the link shares.

Mentors used Reloading to "fit the loading to tasK" , such as teaching me / others how to shoot, understand patterns, pattern density, how it really does NOT matter what a barrel or choke is marked - instead what the pattern board reveals [both a stationary and moving pattern boards] and so much more.

It helps to understand the time of which I grew up, the loadings of that time, and the fact we did NOT have screw in chokes.

Shotguns were fixed choked, usually barrel lengths followed along these lines:
26" = Skeet, IC, 28" = Mod, and 30" = Full .

Us "old guys" grew up with "less" is it often said in regard to being "poor", less offerings in loads, guns, and features in/ on guns.
I disagree.

Less is More

We grew up learning to shoot. Learning included Reloading, gun fit , correct basic fundamentals and so forth.

I have typed many times " one cannot buy skill and targets".

Hey, when you grow up poor, and the offerings are less, not having any money and not a whole to spend money on if you had it, is a Great Learning Experience.
I'm dead serious!

Reloading allows one to learn a LOT of lessons, including being better educated on buying factory ammo.

For instance I am very familar with the Duck Capitol of World. Before Steel shot was mandated, a very "popular" idea was using # 7.5 shot on ducks.

Why? If one reloads , they know why. Most folks bought a 30" full choked gun for everything. The shell components of the time were different , even as reloading components.

WE had soft shot and had hard shot.

Folks used #7.5 shot in flooded timber because the shot deformed and offered a more open pattern with density to fell ducks.

Over Dekes, Folks use chilled/ soft shot in #5 and #6, with full chokes.

I was often known to use a 28 ga with #5 with a Sk or IC

I was "mentored" to not sky bust.

---

I have said many times, there is nothing wrong with all the advances that have been made in shotguns and ammo. Still I feel many should learn the correct basic fundamentals with a bone stock fixed choked IC or Mod barrel.

They would HAVE to learn the correct basic fundamentals - including Reloading.

Shotgun Shell Reloading would decrease a HUGE amount of questions on forums.

We "stacked loads". Meaning we KNEW how to get a w-i-d-e open pattern for flushing quail from a full or mod fixed choked barrel for first shot , and the second loading, a bit tighter for follow up shot.

Today, Reloading is being "lost" as so many other skills are being "lost" and not passed forward.

Marketing , Parents/ Adults too busy "existing" and not "living" life, political tones in regard to shooting in Media, Schools, Business, areas available to shoot, and ...
Single parent families : time, money, needing a mentor, and no mentors stepping up to the plate.

Reloading is also affected by some of the sports folks particpate in , such as those using slugs, and buckshot.

I still step up to the plate and mentor, including Reloading. Including buckshot loadings and slugs, the easiest being the round ball by Ballistic Products.

Paul,
You and I are probably from the same era. We remember the Cold War, Cuba pointing missles at the US , JFK being shot in Dallas and then GCA of '68.

Reloading was part of what folks did along with everything else in being self reliant.

I never got into Metallic reloading, no good excuse other than I did a lot of Shotgun Shell reloading and research. I did load shotgun shells and folks did my metallic, how we did things.

Reloading I have passed forward and yes I have folks that do my reloading for me, once I get them up and running. I turned into my "mentors"

Still, I have single moms with single stage MEC Reloaders that if all heck breaks loose, no shotgun ammo in the stores, no reloading components can be found...

They can take small game for food with pellet loads, they have the abilty to make buckshot loads , and the abilty to make Slug loads to fell a deer, or shoot thru a windshield or vehicle door in a defensive situation.

Back to simple , correct basic fundamentals in being self reliant.

Steve

 

[45auto]

I think the "new shells" might catch up to all the price increases "we" reloaders have gone through the last several years.

It wouldn't surprise me that reloading has a "come back" at some point.

 

[Crosshair]

I'm only 22 years old, yet I reload *counts on his hands* 6 rifle/pistol calibers and I am getting dies for more. I don't reload shotgun shells simply because I am not much of a shotgunner. The local Cabelas sees good sales in shotshell reloading stuff though. So somebody is reloading them.

 

[ArmedBear]

I started out muzzleloading, when I first learned to shoot. I guess that the notion of buying lead, powder, primers and wads just doesn't seem odd to me.

Shooting can easily become just another expensive consumer activity, rather than a sport/hobby/skill. Reloading is part of "keepin' it real."

 

[Oldnamvet]

When lead shot was $14/25LBs I reloaded every shotshell I had. Now, I have to pay nearly $25/25LBs so only the occasional reloading session for special loads - like a 3/4 oz 12 gauge load. Components (mainly shot) just priced it out of the market for me. The stores that used to carry shot also don't anymore since they sell so little. You have to put in an order and you'll get it in the next few weeks. I just buy my shells by the case at Dunham's, get a discount for competition shooters, and toss the hulls in the trash basket (we pick up our empties every session).

 

[halvey]

I had a steel shot reloader until recently. Cost me more to reload than buy off the shelf and the patterns aren't any worse.

 

[oletymer]

I feel sorry for most reloaders as far a component costs. I am lucky enough to live in Washington and we have a supplier who is much cheaper than I see posters listing. The big one is shot, still 15.99 a bag in lots of 1000 lbs.

 

[MCgunner]

I started out muzzleloading, when I first learned to shoot.

Hmm, well, by the time I started shooting, they'd invented the metallic cartridge. I am old enough to have started with paper hulls, though.

Another thing about handloads and hunting is, duck hunting the marsh, you need waterproof ammunition. Modern loads can be submerged and still will fire. When you're trippin' around in the marsh mud, that's a good thing.

 

[Lawyerman]

I am not much of a shotgunner. I shoot alot of defensive type shotguns and make 3-4 trips afield a year to hunt doves or pheasants, sometimes geese. I burn alot of promotional shells in training. With the cost of components and time.....I see no reason to reload shotshells. Now, I understand shortage etc....that's why when they close out the shells at Walmart or Academy at the end of hunting season I literally fill a cart. I dunno how many cases of shotgun shells I have, it is several dozen anyhow. At $35 a case, why not? More than I will ever shoot.

I reload probably 20 metallic rounds but usually in large runs that basically last me a year of shooting. The Dillon 1050 cranks them out over a long weekend and I'm done for the year with all the ammo I can shoot.

I do understand what guys are saying about the knowledge factor though. You are right, when all you have is a 30" gun with a full choke.....you make it work somehow. The process of learning how to make it work will make you a better shooter. These days though, with the gear I have, all I do is consult the info. on the box of shells about what I am hunting, screw in the right choke and go blasting. I like short barrels, I don't think there is any advantage at all to anything over 28" and truthfully 26". All the powder burns in the first 20", the rest makes it swing a little better but it also grabs on every bush and car door, make mine short!

 

[GRP]

It still makes sense to reload today. If you are into shooting the 410 or 28 gauge it's almost a necessity, at somewhere near $9.00 box. Shooting Sporting Clays with a 410 is a hoot. A Mec 9000G is a great reloader, it cost $300.00, your saving about $5.00 a box, if you shoot a lot it wouldn't take long to pay for itself. Also you still have value in the reloader when you want to sell it. It takes about 15-20 minutes to load 100 rounds.

 

[ArmedBear]

I don't reload for hunting, really. I'd rather be able to toss the dirty shells before I go home, and it's more economical to just buy a few boxes of what I need than get bags of different sized shot, etc.

Trap league is my main reason for reloading. And the reloader was free, plus the cost of some bushings and a couple of charge bars (which were close to free).

My shells are equivalent to STS Handicaps, roughly. Arguably, I use better primers. I'm saving about $2 a box. Can I earn more than that? Well, yeah. But again, it keeps me in touch with what I'm doing, more than just buying whatever junk shells they have at Wal-Mart.

 

[Lawyerman]

I think that's exactly what the original post was about.....if you are shooting something that is not mainstream- 16ga, .410, 28 etc....or shooting to make the Olympic team then it makes sense. But, if all you are doing is hunting 3-4x a year, even if you shoot a case of shells in those outings, if you are shooting a 20 or 12, reloading makes no sense. That's how I see it.

Now, if mucking with things is what you like to do and you are going to mess with the smallbores etc...then it's probably worth doing but for the average guy, Walmart promos are the way to go.

 

[JohnBT]

"If you are into shooting the 410 or 28 gauge it's almost a necessity, at somewhere near $9.00 box."

I keep meaning to get a 28 ga. setup, but I've discovered the simple act of buying a box or three of 28 ga. shells means you get to see every gun in the place. They figure if you're buying 28's then you're either rich enough or foolish enough to buy another gun.

I can have more hours of fun in a gun store by buying a $7 or $8 box of shells than I ever would spending that amount on a movie ticket or a drink at a bar. I'm serious, I've gone from just another regular gun buying customer to "Would you like to look at all these $5k and $10k guns?" Heck, they don't even ask, they just start shoving them at me.

If I don't hurry up and buy a reloading setup I'm going to have to have a BIG hull sale on ebay. The AAHS's are piling up on me.

John..."Where's the 28 ga. patches at guys?"

 

[BozemanMT]

My wife and I reload
WE get nice wimpy 1oz loads that shoot beautifully and are clean.
Sure, I can get Estates for about 3.25 a box plus tax and AA or STS's run about 5.00 to 5.50 a box
But, my reloads cost me about $3.10 a box the first time with the hulls
After that, they are $2.25 a box (AA's seem to load 3 to 4 times, STS's load more than that, haven't peaked on those yet)
And these are the equivilent of AA or STS, not the dirty Estates or Federal Blue box.

We can do 500 to 600 an hour on a MEC 9000G and we have more than already paid for that.
I know all my loads are the same and clean.

I don't know why high volume shooters wouldn't reload.
Their loss I suppose.

My one buddy doesn't reload, he shoots the AA gray hulls (which are sweet), we buy the hulls from him for 3cents a piece. Deal for everyone.

 

[ArmedBear]

Bozeman-

Cheap Remington hulls -- not STS's -- reload 8 times or so. STS are good for a lot more than that.

I don't pay for hulls; there's always a newer shooter who buys Gun Clubs and tosses them in the buckets or gives them to someone. Hell, sometimes even STS's, but Gun Clubs are damn good. I don't even pick up brand new AA's for free.

Winchester primers, though, I'll pay for...