The Defensive Webley

[Deaf Smith]

Deaf,

I do not consider the 158 gr. Round Nose Lead (RNL) non +P 38 Special to be superior to the 38/200. I consider it just as bad as the 38/200 in stopping power.

The 158 gr. RNL cartridge was called "The Widow Maker" by LEO's back then for good reason.

Both cartridges were underpowered when they were introduced 100 years ago as was proven in the Philippines and in the trenches in W.W.I. Today there is no reason for a person to handicap themselves in a obsolete, anemic cartridge in century old handgun made of weaker steel and old springs that may break at any moment.

I do consider the 38 Special + P JHP/XTP/Critical Defense (take your pick) vastly superior to both the 38/200 and 158 gr. RNL 38 Special.

The ball is in your court.

Your 'considered' as adequate is not what everyone else considers adequate.

Sorry but when you talked about the Detective Special one has to remember that ONLY the post-1972 Colt Detective Special is factory rated for up to 3000 rounds of +P ammo. Most are not rated for +p, hence standard loads. As for RNL, it was used well into the 1970s and while not perfect it was not a total failure. We still use RNL in the form of FMJ in the military AND many people use .380s for SD. They even make a .380 revolver now (Taurus.)

Like I said, it will get you through the night.

Deaf

 

[adcoch1]

adcoch1,

Visit the emergency room in a big city hospital on a Friday or Saturday night and you will quickly see how ineffective head shots with a weak round nose bullet is.

I don't discount that comment for a second, but i would rather have a webley in 38/200 than a keltec in 380. There is something about being able to easily hit what your aiming at, and even a couple 22lr rounds in the face is better than standing there in your underwear armed with just your fists. I would rather have a 12ga than the webley, but a webley looks like a big gun, goes bang, and they shoot pretty well from my incredibly limited experience. Better that than no gun I say. Plus, how often do you all have gunfights at night? If it were more common around here maybe I might have a different opinion. I just like cool old guns, and they still work today, even if there is better newer stuff to use.

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

I don't discount that comment for a second, but i would rather have a webley in 38/200 than a keltec in 380. There is something about being able to easily hit what your aiming at, and even a couple 22lr rounds in the face is better than standing there in your underwear armed with just your fists. I would rather have a 12ga than the webley, but a webley looks like a big gun, goes bang, and they shoot pretty well from my incredibly limited experience. Better that than no gun I say. Plus, how often do you all have gunfights at night? If it were more common around here maybe I might have a different opinion. I just like cool old guns, and they still work today, even if there is better newer stuff to use.

If I had a bed-side Webley I'd load it with the best, most modern ammunition that I could obtain and feel decently well-armed.

My wife does carry a .38 S&W. Hers is a S&W Safety Hammerless, nickel with MOP handles and a T-grip. She's recoil-sensitive (bad wrist) and the minimal recoil, small size and excellent trigger pull suit her. Her ability to shoot it and, let's face it, the fact that it is pretty combine into a package that she will carry. Yes, it's anemic and far from the best possible choice- but at least she will have it if she needs it.

 

[BSA1]

Deaf,

You obviously have not been a LEO or you would not make the statement that " As for RNL, it was used well into the 1970s and while not perfect it was not a total failure."

As for "We still use RNL in the form of FMJ in the military..." so what? Tell you what. Back me up with M-4's, SAW's, .50 BMG, Artillery, a A-10 for Close Air Support, Armed Drones flying overhead, Infantry Fighting Vehicles and M-1 Abrams tanks that are used by todays soldiers and I will carry a Webley loaded with 38/200 ammunition.

"AND many people use .380s for SD" and today's .380 ammunition is vastly superior to what was made 100 years ago with cartridges and bullets designed for maximum performance. The 38/200 has not been improved any since it was first introduced.

"Like I said, it will get you through the night." No, you but not me. I take the safety of my family and myself too seriously not to use modern firearms and state of the art ammunition for self-protection.

What you choose is your business. I just don't what someone who is new to firearms and looking for effective self defense guns and cartridges to take your comments seriously.

 

[Merle1]

"Actually meth was discovered in 1893. Crack is a free base form of cocaine that can be smoked, nothing more, and cocaine has been around since 1859. PCP is a 1950s drug."

And cocaine was one of the original ingredients in Coca-Cola which changes nothing that many of today's criminals are users of strong drugs that changes their mood and increases tolerance to pain.

"It's not a entry team weapon but it is just as good as say a Colt Detective Special or S&W 2 inch Model 10."

The 38/200 is a poor, unreliable stopper in any handgun you chamber it in. The U.S. Army dropped it’s handguns in 38 Long Colt and brought their Colt SAA 45 Colts out of retirement for issue to the soldiers stationed in the Philippines after the Spanish-American War.

If you are claiming the Webley 38/200 is as effective as a stopper as the Colt D.S. and S&W in 38 Special please post any data that proves this.

It appears that you may not have much experience shooting live animals with a weak 38. I can tell you from first-hand experience that a 148 gr. lead full-wadcutter at 700 +/- fps. will bounce off of the forehead of a opossum when shot from a distance of 2 feet away from a 4” barrel revolver. A full-wadcutter is designed to cut nice round holes whereas the roundnose lead bullets skip off of a hard target.


"Not everyone needs or wants a Hi-Point and the Webley will do."

So buy a different modern gun in a proven caliber. This sounds like someone that does not what to hurt or kill their attacker only to cause them to run away.

I shot a number of possums, woodchucks and feral cats with my Enfield loaded with 148 wadcutters, and never had a bullet bounce off - even from a LOT further away than 2 feet.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Deaf,

You obviously have not been a LEO or you would not make the statement that " As for RNL, it was used well into the 1970s and while not perfect it was not a total failure."

But it was NOT a total failure. Many were stopped. At least 50 percent were (according to Jeff Cooper and others.) Heck even Charlie Askens used it in WW2 and shot a German and he said it worked fine.

As for "We still use RNL in the form of FMJ in the military..." so what? Tell you what. Back me up with M-4's, SAW's, .50 BMG, Artillery, a A-10 for Close Air Support, Armed Drones flying overhead, Infantry Fighting Vehicles and M-1 Abrams tanks that are used by todays soldiers and I will carry a Webley loaded with 38/200 ammunition.

BSA1, MPs don't have those SAWs, .50BMGs, etc... might have a M-4 in the shed but no on them. Don't you know that?

"AND many people use .380s for SD" and today's .380 ammunition is vastly superior to what was made 100 years ago with cartridges and bullets designed for maximum performance. The 38/200 has not been improved any since it was first introduced.

Well if you look at the reloads portion of this thread where the 200 cast bullets are much better than the actual 38/200 military load used by the UK (which was not 200 grains nor a solid lead bullet... just FYI.)

"Like I said, it will get you through the night." No, you but not me. I take the safety of my family and myself too seriously not to use modern firearms and state of the art ammunition for self-protection.

Fine by me!

What you choose is your business. I just don't what someone who is new to firearms and looking for effective self defense guns and cartridges to take your comments seriously.

BSA, you are talking this thread way to seriously. Re-read it from the front. Especially post #1 that shows the 38/200 military and the reloaded RNL 200 grain slugs. Also post #17 were I said,

If I was to use my MK IV 3 inch Webley .38 for self defense....

Way way to seriously!

Deaf

 

[Panzerschwein]

But it was NOT a total failure. Many were stopped. At least 50 percent were (according to Jeff Cooper and others.) Heck even Charlie Askens used it in WW2 and shot a German and he said it worked fine.




BSA1, MPs don't have those SAWs, .50BMGs, etc... might have a M-4 in the shed but no on them. Don't you know that?




Well if you look at the reloads portion of this thread where the 200 cast bullets are much better than the actual 38/200 military load used by the UK (which was not 200 grains nor a solid lead bullet... just FYI.)



Fine by me!



BSA, you are talking this thread way to seriously. Re-read it from the front. Especially post #1 that shows the 38/200 military and the reloaded RNL 200 grain slugs. Also post #17 were I said,

Way way to seriously!

Deaf

Deaf I agree with you and also think that BSA1 should reread my OP.

 

[BSA1]

Cooldill,

I have read you post several times.

Not matter how you or Deaf spin it the 38/200 is totally inadequate for self-defense. It was then and it is even more now.

As for the 158 gr. RNL 38 Special used by LEO's we need a thread about the history of why Police Chiefs and Administrators choose to arm their Officers with underpowered non-expanding bullets. (For starters politics was a bigger deal then than today). Deaf bases his high regard on what he reads from the comfort of his home. I base my low opinion based on actual performance while working on the streets as a LEO and working in emergency room at a major hospital.

I would love to own a Webley either in 38 or 455 as I want to make a collection of W.W.I small arms used by the major powers. It will have a place of honor on my display, enjoy occasional trips to the range followed by a warm coating of gun oil.

As suggested by the wise advice of Cooldill (who has some really neat guns) I have beat this horse enough. Time to go the man cave and give some TLC to my guns.

 

[Deaf Smith]

I wouldn't mind seeing a picture of that if you have one handy.

Here it is!





I put wood grips on the gun later. And of course the other gun is my Beretta 1934 Italian military .380 made in '41. No import marks on that one either!

Deaf

 

[gotboostvr]

Thanks deaf! That's something you don't see everyday.

I've always been intrested in "trench art" like that.