The Easy Way, or the Hard Way?

[davepool]

I think it's attitude when you open carry more than the equipment you use.
I was at Sportsmans warehouse last weekend buying cleaning gear when two young early twentys guys walked by with the big thigh holsters and extra mags strapped on, and my first thought was negative about that type of display, but they turned out to be very friendly young men,smiling, being courteous,heck they even asked the old guy(me) which cleaning solvents i used and which lubes i prefered.Nice guys.

What i'm trying to say is that everyone has their own style, it's how you conduct yourself that matters.

You can't always judge a book it's cover. If you strap on a gun and it makes you feel like God, and you act like it....you are doing all gun owners a disservice....attitude is everything

 

[MagnumDweeb]

I can sympathize with the OP not so much on the open carry bit so much but rather there are those who would ruin it for the rest of us. My first CCW-capable gun was a Ruger Security Six .357 Magnum a few years back when I was 21 and had gotten my CCW permit a week after I bought the hand gun. Turned 21 and got my grandfather's old 7.5" SBH .44 Magnum, day after I turned 21 I bought the Security Six, and a week after that I took the class and waited my sixty days, sent out the paperwork the same day I took the class, got my fingerprints done a few days before I took the class.

Now my friend at the time (no longer friends because of his continuos poor choices), he was an idiot. Bought a Taurus PT145 and showed it off constantly and talked garbage all the time about how bad he was because he had a .45 ACP caliber sub-compact(one time he literally fire a hundred rounds and hit the edge of the silhouette paper twice, yeah two out of a hundred). He would constantly give me garbage in front of our friends how my .357 magnum was a piece of junk in comparison, rrrigghhhttt. And then he got his CCW permit and all hell broke loose. Well he shortly there after had to pawn his gun but that didn't stop him from showing off his CCW permit like he was somehow incredible for it. And we ended, I stopped, not riding to places together in the same car because he knew I had my Ruger with me and would mouth off about it. "Hey my friend has .357 you act like a fool and he'll end you", he said something like that one time when we were downtown picking up a friend (last time I drove with him anywhere) and kicked him out of my car(literally, we somehow continued to be friends for nearly two years after) and left him there with the person he just threatened while I raced away, granted he ran after me but had to take a taxi home.

Open carry or concealed carry, there are a lot of idiots who can't respect and appreciate the tradition and right of gun ownership. We as responsible law abiding gun owners have to to some respect ostracise these folks otherwise we'll be lumped in with them.

I figure myself as a gunowner to be a walking PR ad no matter what I do so I generally try to stay cleanly shaved, cleanly dressed even if it's just in jeans and a T-shirt, smile and be polite, and while I've got a 45+" muscled chest and 24" biceps, I do my best to never scowl or attempt to intimidate people (I'm only 5'9") unless they're justly deserving it (wanna be badasses or thug types). I reguraly work to convert people to gun ownership or at the least the idea of gun ownership being okay. I've converted four girls at my law school in that they've bought glocks, PPKs, and a 642 (Two bought 'matching' G19s, one bought a PPK .380, and another bought herself a 642 because she thought it was cute ). I will continue to work to bring more folks over to our side because the more gun owners there are, the greater our chances of being accpeted are likely.

Remember it all rolls downhill be it good or bad, I'll do my best to make sure it's good, hope the rest of you do too.

 

[springmom]

This just keeps getting more confusing to me.

3KillerB's posts about her color coordinated grips, and Bogie gets going on

Oh yeah - leave the "naked piece of trailer trash wrapped in a confederate flag" grips at home... Your great-great-great-granddaddy had his ass handed to him. His side lost. Deal with it. Because now, whether you like it or not, that crap is something that says to the world "Hi - I'm a racist lowlife." Just as much as pants around the knees and a sideways hat says "Hi - I'm a predatory thug."

Where did racist lowlife come from out of color coordinated grips, for heaven's sake???

There's an awful lot of passion in those posts that seems like it MUST have more fueling it than just the one incident you saw at the mall. And THAT wasn't even relevant to CC/OC because police officers do not HAVE to conceal off duty (amended to add: at least not down here, don't know about Missouri). We were in the parking lot at SuperTarget up on I-45 and Cypresswood a couple of days after Ike (only place we could get cellphone signals) and some guy drove up and parked nearby. Gets out, opens the back of his truck with camper hood, and starts strapping on the tactical gear. Drop leg holster, black jacket, the whole nine yards. My take? Must be a cop getting ready for duty.

And it was. They had guard duty over that rarest of items post-Ike...an open gas station.

I think Kind of Blued has it nailed...it is in fact the choice of the lovely holster and the best-looking gun I own that you could label "political". If I want plain old functional (which would included the calculus of the cost involved if, after a shoot, my gun was taken by the police and maybe returned in less than salubrious condition) I'd go with the XD-9 and a Kydex paddle holster. Same number of rounds as the BHP, same caliber, cheaper and easier to replace in case of a shooting and it becoming evidence.

You decry "making a statement" but then tell us to be careful about the statement we make. Don't get me wrong, I agree that dressing like Rambo to go to Cici's Pizza is probably about as dumb as a human being can get. But neither have I *ever* read of anybody doing that, so getting all het up about what it would do if they did seems unnecessary.

But you're right, of course...it is important for us to be good ambassadors for the firearms owning community, and our appearance AND our behavior should be something other gun owners will never cringe and be embarrassed by, and your post is a good reminder of that.

Springmom

 

[bogie]

Springmom, you obviously haven't seen the popular "naked trailer trash wrapped in a confederate flag" 1911 grips, have you... You go to enough gun shows, you'll run into 'em sooner or later...

Not only is it a picture of "naked trailer trash wrapped in a confederate flag," but it is so poorly drawn that it offends me as a working artist.

I've seen jailhouse tattoos that were done better.

Every time I see an NRA sticker on a pickup next to a confederate flag sticker, I cringe. Do some of y'all WANT folks to vote against us?

 

[arthurcw]

While I agree with some of the OP and as one of my gay friends says, "D@M#IT! Why is it that in the stupid pride parade there are hundreds on normal looking people but they have to put the cameras on the 3 idiots that think it's ok to expose themselves in public..."

BUT... do you really thing the sheep are going to take the time to distinguish between a "polite 1911" in leather and a Glock in a drop leg? No. They will see a gun and freak if they are so inclined.

As an aside... The ONLY time I've seen tacticool impolite holsters have been on off duty vice cops.

Still if it's legal and you want to... go ahead and do it. Not for me to say. I know many high-waisted women who will opt for a drop leg if we get open carry. Good on them.

 

[AlaskaErik]

When I OC it's an XD-45 in a Galco retention holster and two spare mags in a Galco mag carrier. No one gives it a second look.

 

[3KillerBs]

Still if it's legal and you want to... go ahead and do it. Not for me to say. I know many high-waisted women who will opt for a drop leg if we get open carry. Good on them.

Most definitely.

One of the reasons for the size restriction on my carry gun choice is that my figure physically prevents me from drawing anything longer than 6 inches because its either in my armpit or, to the embarrassment of male instructors attempting to find a solution, jammed under my DD breasts.

 

[Gordon Fink]

Open carry is a fad these days … I guess the gun rags have been writing it up, since pretty much all the decent states to live in now have concealed carry.…

Bogie, I’m glad you enjoy the fruits of liberalized concealed carry, but it is important to remember that almost fully a third of all Americans (over 96 million persons) do not have this privilege and probably scarcely realize its otherwise vast geographic extent. It is even more important to note that these people live in the cultural centers of the United States and are the ones who usually set the trends that inform and shape national policy. In other words, the “decent states” where liberalized concealed carry is now so common are the states where most people don’t live.

But, yeah, all that “tactical” junk is just silly. Nevertheless, I long for the day when open or concealed carry would simply depend on the weather and what one wanted to wear on a given morning. Unfortunately, we’re still amost 100 million souls away from that day.

~G. Fink

 

[Smaug]

The easy way is to carry concealed and not alarm anyone. (assuming that is allowed in open carry states) As more and more folks carry concealed, there is a higher and higher possibility that one of those folks will stop a crime. This will slowly help our case.

Maybe it would be a psycho running onto a playground and he can't kill as many kids before an armed citizen guns him down. Maybe he walks onto the playground, pulls the gun, and some alarmed citizen shoots him in the back before he has a chance to kill anyone. Maybe he is the bystander in the gas station when the robber pulls the gun on the clerk.

Open carry may act as deterrent, but it also makes the carrier a target, in more ways than one.

 

[Tyris]

If you want fools dressed up all black and tacticool, I suggest a trip to NYC, my favorite open-air prison.

The only thing missing is the face mask.

-T

 

[springmom]

Bogie, you're right...in all the gun shows, I've never seen THAT. I wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry!!!

Re: NRA and Confederate flag....you live in a border state (I grew up in Springfield, near the Wilson's Creek National Battlefield, and loved learning about the local Civil War history when I was a kid ) But to get back on point, you probably have a different response to that flag than some folks down here. It is used by the racists, yes; there are also those who are not racist who display it. Not me, I can't see any reason to start more trouble than finds me naturally, but it doesn't actually equate. I won't speculate on whether it equals racism in most, or some, or a few cases, I don't know....but I do know that it's not a totally accurate correlation.

Apart from the flag bit, though, my point is that if people see "drop leg holster and military haircut" there is one conclusion they will jump to, at least down here. And it just doesn't have anything to do with "guns are bad because that guy looks like a freak." The much-maligned "soccer mommies" are most likely to look, think "cop doing security" and go back to watching practice. Again, at least here that's true.

You just seem a tad wound up on this one, to me. But you sound like you've seen some real doozies, too.

Springmom

 

[Tom Servo]

Open carry is legal where I am, but I never saw it much until recently. Used to be, I'd see someone well-dressed and middle-aged openly carrying an N-Frame or nice 1911 in a fancy holster and think, "wow, good for him."

Now, I'm seeing 20-year olds in shabby clothes with two days' beard growth wearing black automatics in Uncle Mike's rigs. They chant "what part of 'shall not be infringed don't you understand?'" and such at anyone who looks their way.

The first group seemed to do so as a well-considered decision, while the second seems to be doing it as part of an agenda. It's the second group that worries me.

I won't for a second argue that it's not their right, but the OP is right that these things are gained in small steps. There's been a concerted effort, starting with FDR and running through the Clinton administration, to label anyone with a gun as a dangerous psychopath. It's been seventy years chipping away at our rights--we won't get them all back overnight.

Concealed carry still makes many people nervous. Open carry can also do so, no matter how well-intentioned.

When it's done for shock value, it's even worse. Every new law and judgment in our favor meets with serious resistance, and we need to be very careful how we present ourselves. We've done a phenomenal job in the academic, legal and media arenas, and we need to be just as judicious in our dealings with the man on the street.

Me? I don't open carry. I'm a bit on the shy side, and I just don't like having attention drawn to me. If you want to do it, more power to you, but please get trained, develop situational awareness and wear a decent holster with retainment.

And remember, whether or not you mean to, you may be speaking for all of us. Present yourself as an ambassador. Think Henry Kissinger, not Sandra Bernhart!

 

[Carlos Cabeza]

Practical is better than tacticool anyday. Its a shame that the people that would wear the black nylon and plastic gear in the manner you described probably need something to make them feel as cool as they perceive themselves to be. Even some real professionals fall into this ego trap.

I don't get excited in the least when I see a gun on someones hip but someone else might react wholly different.

There are alot of stereotypical tones to the original post, and just like all stereotypical labels, boil down to nothing more than discrimination based on appearances. Almost racist.

It is too bad that the people who make these judgements should probably look inside themselves and not worry so much about the choices that others make.

Unfortunately this is not a realistic answer. The "Black is cool", EBR, Blackops, Bubba Redneck B** S*** has been played out far too much. Who to blame ? Movies ? Who knows ?

Who cares...................

 

[bogie]

We are ambassadors.

And we can be our own worst enemies in dealing with "the public" when it comes to gun rights.

Most folks could care less about the bill of rights. That's just the way it is. It's not really a major concern to them. They just don't think about it.

Now, we can fight a losing battle to convince folks that the 2nd amendment matters, and get repeatedly tuned out, or we can appeal to something that they DO care about.

Safety and security.

It's all about the message, and how it makes it to the audience.

If you appear "safe and secure," and tip the scales on the side of "we want this person around us," then we WIN. We can worry about all that stuff that guys who've been dead for 200 years wrote about later... It's an incremental process, folks. Give the people what they want.

So, next time someone sees one of you open carriers and asks "Why are you carrying that thing?" - well, if you reply "It's my right," you haven't really reinforced a "safety and security" message. But if you say "Well, with all the crime, we thought it might be a good idea" - well, that is something that they can understand.

Having the general population accept safety and security is EASY, but trying to convince them to think in terms of the bill of rights, and all that other fun stuff, is HARD.

EASY wins are still wins.

 

[Walkalong]

It is the fact that a confederate flag sometimes cry's "racism" that I don't want my 17 year old son to wear shirts with it on them. (Dixie Outfitters shirts - Yes, I am in the heart of Dixie - I won't argue wether it in and by itself is racist. I also won't argue that there are not racists on both sides, because there are.)

The kid does not have a racist bone in his body, but he also does not understand the hate it brings out in some folks and how it can make him a target. Naive.

What we wear sends a message.

Wether it is a flag, or pants down below our A**, etc, etc. Many kids who have Dixie Outfitter shirts on are not racist, if not most. Many kids with pants hanging below their A** are not thugs, if not most.

BUT, they sure look the part, and people see them that way.

We have a responsibility to all gun owners to carry responsibly. If we dress up all tacticool and threatening looking we will only scare those on the fence and make it worse. They could much more easily get used to average looking folks who carry without being scared. People over the years have often asked me if I was a cop, so I bet they would just think I was off duty or a detective or something, if I chose to OC, as long as I was dressed nicely. If I was dressed like a bum, it would be different.

I have seen the grips bogie. If the flag does not bother you, and half naked women don't bother you, and poorly drawn "art does not bother you, I guess their OK. Personally, I would not have a pair.

 

[Walkalong]

If you appear "safe and secure," and tip the scales on the side of "we want this person around us," then we WIN. We can worry about all that stuff that guys who've been dead for 200 years wrote about later... It's an incremental process, folks. Give the people what they want.

So, next time someone sees one of you open carriers and asks "Why are you carrying that thing?" - well, if you reply "It's my right," you haven't really reinforced a "safety and security" message. But if you say "Well, with all the crime, we thought it might be a good idea" - well, that is something that they can understand.

Having the general population accept safety and security is EASY, but trying to convince them to think in terms of the bill of rights, and all that other fun stuff, is HARD.

Agreed

 

[tigre]

In an ideal world, women would be able to buy stylish retention holsters that matched our shoes and purses so that we'd look nicely put-together.

And, of course, color-coordinated grips to suit our outfits.

Speaking of holster fashion, I've already picked out the one I'd use with my CZ P-01 if I could OC (certainly can't carry that concealed - my Sig P230 is at the very upper size limit for me). I'd probably want to add a thumbreak and maybe change the floral design a little, but it's really pretty and I can't see it freaking anyone out, especially on a 5'4" 125lb woman.

 

[Mr. James]

Well, thank you for that last post, bogie - my dander was up and I was about to unload. I'll just say I am in complete agreement with your last post, and leave it at that.

Oh, and while I avoid Confederate battle flags, my vehicle does bear a Bonnie Blue license plate. But since no one knows what the heck that is, no one thinks to call me an irredentist racist.

 

[Carlos Cabeza]

Bogie, I agree. I try very hard to portray myself as you've described but here in the area of the nation we live in it's not very hard. Most residents of OK. have some degree of exposure to firearms that is positive, such as "My Grandpa used to take me squirrel hunting when I was young, I sure do miss him !" and I do, very much.

The concept of self preservation exists in everyone, but expounding the idea of being responsible for one's own safety goes against what many people have been taught.

I feel, at the very least, responsible for the few minutes between the 911 call, and the hopefully expedient arrival of those who would come to my aid.

Many people don't have a realistic concept of actually how long this might take.

 

[Tom Servo]

it's really pretty and I can't see it freaking anyone out, especially on a 5'4" 125lb woman.

Yes, it is. Black Hills?

Oh, and as a very festive man once told me in Atlanta, "sweetie, the holster has to match the shoes." That's actually quite good advice, even for someone as fasion-autistic as myself.

It's worth noting that you're carrying it openly because it's practical, rather than saying, "man, this is soooo gonna freak out the sheep at the movie theater!"

Those are the folks who are causing us problems.

 

[tigre]

Yes, it is. Black Hills?

D. M. Bullard, in my hometown of Azle, TX - which just makes me want it even more.

 

[bogie]

I suspect that that holster is going result in more than one case of...

"Honey, you're buying me a gun. No. Don't ask why. I've decided. And this is the kind of holster I want. I don't know. A gun that goes in this holster. Now."

 

[Cosmoline]

I've never noticed the "hard way" though.

Neither have I. I've seen thousands of people open carrying in Alaska over the years. Never seen one like that description. Other than the LEO's.

 

[Ske1etor]

How about this... I will wake up in the morning and put on the same clothes that I wear on a normal day. May be cargo shorts, may be jeans. Those jeans may have a few holes in them or they may not. Then I will throw on a shirt. Might be a polo, might be a t-shirt with a skateboard company logo or local football team logo on it. I will then slip on my shoes. Normally a comfortable pair of skate shoes. I then put on my belt, put my black galco c.o.p. series three slot holster on and stick my 1911 in it.

I will then leave the house and go about my business. If someone hassles me I will respond courteously.

I am so tired of people (especially on the pro-gun side of the fence) expecting me to dress a certain way while I am openly carrying. How about this. To show the neutral-gun citizens something... be yourself AND open carry. Thirty years ago a man with a bunch of tattoo's was looked at like a punk. Now, schoolteachers and soccer moms have tattoo's and nobody blinks an eye. They are showing nude scenes on network cable and the radio stations are ever closer to allowing full blown explicit lyrics.

I am a gun owner. I carry a gun and I am prepared to use it if I absolutely have to. Get over it. I dress a certain way and I will not change that because some uptight, closed minded gun rights activist thinks that I am hurting his future by openly carrying while wearing clothes that I like to wear.

Attempting to persuade the open carrying population into changing their way of life to more suit your vision of what a responsible open carry citizen looks like is quite hypocritical. You value the right to carry a firearm, you value the right to free speech but you do not value the right to self expression?

Oh, you value that right... but only if it doesn't interfere with your politically correct view of what the anti side "needs" to see? I say to hell with them. You think wearing a suit and tie makes them think you are a responsible citizen? They detest you and I regardless.

We will never sway the anti's into thinking our views are ok so you might as well toss that dream of a cliff... We can though, keep fighting to retain the rights we have now and keep fighting to restore some that have been taken away in the past. The bickering and fighting from the interior of the pro-gun community will be the straw that breaks the camels back. Unite all firearm owners and pro-gun people because right now, from what I can see, we are certainly not united.

United will we stand, divided we will fall.

 

[Tribal]

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