The elk caliber thread

[Ugly Sauce]

Don't think shots over 300 yards are ethical, for most people. I've always thought hunting was more about hunting, than making long shots and wounding animals. Anyhow, .30-06 is a good way to lean. The .300MAG is only a little faster than a '06, and generally just burns more powder for a very small gain. Sometimes only 100fps. Depending on the specific, individual rifle, and barrel length, some .300's just burn more powder to equal '06 ballistics, or just outrun it by a very small margin.

Sure you can take an elk with anything, tons have been shot with the .30WCF, but drawing the line somewhere isn't a bad idea, and the .30-06 isn't a bad place to draw the line. And of course I'm a .30US fan...so....!!! If he leans towards the '06, why steer him in any other direction? He'll be in good company.

 

[BreechFace]

Shots over 300 yards are not uncommon out west here. I would say shots over 500 yards are uncommon. But either way the 30-06 will get it done, longer distance is more about the shooters ability and environment than the cartridge when we are talking about 308 class cartridges and up.

 

[Aletheia]

The .300MAG is only a little faster than a '06, and generally just burns more powder for a very small gain. Sometimes only 100fps. Depending on the specific, individual rifle, and barrel length, some .300's just burn more powder to equal '06 ballistics, or just outrun it by a very small margin.
.

I often see that argument that there is almost no difference in performance between the .30-06 and the .300Win, and every time I see it I think: that person has not shot much with one. I have used a .300 Win for a couple of decades, and I have come to believe that there is a significant difference that makes the .300 the start of a new "level" of performance over the -06. The .30-06 is,without doubt, a legitimate elk round, but the .300 is more "decisive" in all applications. It is just a decision about whether or not that decisiveness is important to your hunting whether it is deer, or elk moose and bears.

It also recoils significantly, and many hunters will find it more than they can use effectively, or want to get used to, but anyone who shoots lots of game of all sizes with a .300 mag of whatever type, will soon see that it is obviously "more" than the .30-06. So my .300 Win is my ideal elk cartridge, and if one is willing to learn to deal with it's noise and recoil, it will provide excellent results.

 

[Telum Pisces]

30-06 and practice and practice some more at the longer ranges!!!! It does drop and you need to know that and be able to work with that. The 220 Grain 30-06 is a great elk round as long as you are experienced shooter with the round if you want to reach out to 300+ yards. What the other calibers try to do like 300 win mag is flatten that trajectory. They do it with ooomph and power that goes into your shoulder and cost in the rounds too!

What most people want to do is just show up and hunt these days. In order to properly take a proper shot on a great animal take time and dedication before the actual hunt. Put in the rifle time to be comfortable not matter what rifle is chosen. If you just go out there with some wham bam tables that the ammo manufacturer gave you printed on the box, you are going to fail!

 

[WisBorn]

What about muzzle loaders???
In some cases for nonresidents it is easier to draw a muzzle loader or archery tag for elk.

Would a 50 cal inline with sabot bullets or a heavy bullet from a 54 caliber be the way to go???
I love my 50 cal percussion with round balls but would want to be inside 100-125 yards.

 

[Captcurt]

I could live with a 30-06 if I didn't have my 300WSM. I doubt if an elk would know the difference if hit with a good 180gr out of either caliber.

 

[LoonWulf]

Plenty of good responses.
My only thought is more personal opinion than anything. I prefer a new hunter to use the heaviest cartridge they are 100% (or at least 95%) comfortable with.

 

[sixgunner455]

Watched a guy miss an elk 6x with a .300 he hadn’t shot much. His son convinced him he “needed” to use the .300.

Next day, he dropped a running cow with a heart shot from the .270 Win Mod 70 he’d been hunting with since 20 years before that kid was born. Barnes X bullet, whatever it was back then that was the hot Barnes mono.

Hitting the target is first. Using the right bullet is second. The powder bottle is only a powder bottle.

 

[WisBorn]

Watched this video last night. Real good advice from Randy.
Especially at what point does the cartridge you choose reach 1800 fps and 1250 of energy. Bullets are designed to perform at specific speeds and it takes a specific amount of energy to ethically kill an animal.

Yes there are exceptions like a 12 gauge slug, but they still have limitations on penetration.

Just a thought. Good luck hunting and be safe!

 

[Hog huntin Harry]

If it was me, I'd use a 7mm mag of some sort with 175 grain Nosler Partitions. Also, I believe any shots past 400 yards are unethical except for the most experienced rifleman, and 500+ yards is just asking for trouble and should NOT be attempted.

 

[MCMXI]

I always find these discussions interesting. If we knew all the variables in advance we'd have a much better idea of what we needed. Shooting and hunting are exercises in statistics, and a good shooter with a .300 Win Mag and an appropriate bullet will be better equipped to overcome more variables than a good shooter with a .243 Win or a 6.5 Creedmoor.

I didn't need a .300 Win Mag to shoot an elk and deer recently, but there really wasn't a downside to using it. The bullets passed right through but there wasn't much in the way of bloodshot meat or other significant meat damage. If there was a problem it would be with the rifle. The Tikka T3X TAC is not an ideal hunting rifle so I would have preferred to use a lightweight Kimber or similar, but it wasn't practical this year.

If I were advising someone who wanted a good all around rifle/cartridge for deer and elk I'd suggest .308 Win, .280 AI or .30-06 Sprg from a company who makes rifles with a locking bolt handle. I'd also suggest they buy a few boxes of Federal Vital-Shok Trophy Copper ammunition.

 

[JFrank]

For myself it’s learning how to track an animal and be willing to put in the work over caliber selection.
I have long guns available but really prefer my Marlin 30-30 for in the timber and a Tikka 308 for open areas.
I’ll let the kids bring the big heavy boomers I recon

 

[Orcon]

At a minimum I'd say 243 or 25-06 cartridge range with a smart bullet selection, shot angle, and distance. Yes 243 kills elk if you take these thing into account. But honestly anything above these that a person can shoot well within an appropriate range envelope will take elk. I've heard of some weirdos that actually fix razor blades on the ends of sticks and fling them into elk every year and have successful harvest.

 

[tactikel]

While 7 mm Rem Mag and .300 Win Mag are excellent Elk rounds, most novice hunters are better served by .308, 30-06, and especially the .270. less recoil, cheaper ammo, allowing more practice and less flinching. Remember hunting is only 10% shooting, 90% woodcraft.

 

[Captcurt]

I cringe when someone mentions small calibers for elk. Yes, they will work in the hands of an experienced, patient shooter who is familiar with their rifle. Let's be honest with each other. The majority of the hunters don't shoot that much. They shell out thousands of dollars on what might be their only western hunt. It only makes sense to stack the deck in your favor. It doesn't have to be a magnum but pick the largest caliber that you can handle comfortably.

Then there is the elk. This is a big animal that can inhabit some pretty nasty country, plus, you are not always presented a perfect shot. A big bull quartering away at 300 yards would be iffy with a 243. Even with the best bullet out there. You would get a small entry hole and probably no exit. This leaves you with no blood trail. A 30-06 with good 180 gr would be very capable of putting him down and even if he doesn't go down immediately you will have a better chance of a blood trail. Pick a gun big enough and leave the small calibers to the pros.

 

[vintovka]

Is a .338 too much?

 

[MaxP]

Is a .338 too much?

There are no degrees of dead.

 

[BreechFace]

There are no degrees of dead.

Except to Miracle Max in the Princess Bride, "he's only mostly dead."

 

[JFrank]

Is a .338 too much?

That’s a lot of Dead

 

[Chuck R.]

I cringe when someone mentions small calibers for elk. Yes, they will work in the hands of an experienced, patient shooter who is familiar with their rifle. Let's be honest with each other. The majority of the hunters don't shoot that much. They shell out thousands of dollars on what might be their only western hunt. It only makes sense to stack the deck in your favor. It doesn't have to be a magnum but pick the largest caliber that you can handle comfortably.

Then there is the elk. This is a big animal that can inhabit some pretty nasty country, plus, you are not always presented a perfect shot. A big bull quartering away at 300 yards would be iffy with a 243. Even with the best bullet out there. You would get a small entry hole and probably no exit. This leaves you with no blood trail. A 30-06 with good 180 gr would be very capable of putting him down and even if he doesn't go down immediately you will have a better chance of a blood trail. Pick a gun big enough and leave the small calibers to the pros.

I agree and think a lot also depends on the conditions, not just average distances etc. but whether you're talking public VS private land hunting. I've only hunted elk on public land where seeing a legal bull is difficult, getting a perfect broadside shot is more difficult. Odds are it will not be a perfect presentation and it might well be the only opportunity you've got. This is where the heavier calibers shine in their ability to penetrate deeply.

 

[MCMXI]

This is where the heavier calibers shine in their ability to penetrate deeply.

I'll add that it's not just penetration but that's no big surprise. I've seen a 6.5 CM 143gr ELD-X zip right through a big mule deer at 350 yards but that deer still ran a couple of hundred yards before it dropped despite "perfect" shot placement. I'm a fan of tough solid copper bullets with tough petals that open up and make big holes inside the soft tissue. A good .30 cal bullet expands to a significantly larger diameter than a good .264 cal bullet, and my favorite hunting cartridge .375 H&H offers huge 3/4" diameters when expanded. Some will tell you that a 6.5 CM with its high SD will out penetrate a .30 cal with a lower SD, but if both are exiting the animal then the expanded bullet size is the more important variable.

 

[.308 Norma]

Is a .338 too much?

I put a lot of elk and deer meat on the table over the years with my 338 Win Mag. I used 225gr Hdy SPs over charges of H4831 or IMR4350 that gave me right around 2,800fps for both elk and deer. It worked real well.
On the other hand, there's no denying that a 338 Win Mag kicks pretty hard. It very well could be "too much" for an inexperienced or recoil-sensitive hunter. But here's the thing about that - I personally don't think the recoil from my 338 Win Mag is as bad as the recoil was from the 300 Win Mag I used to have. I know, I know - on paper a 338 kicks a little harder than a 300, but to me it's a "slower" recoil.

Pick a gun big enough and leave the small calibers to the pros.

Yep, that's the way I feel about it. I used to go round and round with a buddy at work over his use of a 25-06 for elk, but it was all in fun because the fact is that guy knows what he's doing. He has a 338 Win Mag (and for that matter a 416 Rem Mag) that he has used for hunting big game all over North America and a couple of trips to Africa. He just prefers his 25-06 for elk hunting around here because of how flat it shoots.
BTW, like I said - I don't mind a 338 Win Mag's recoil too much, but that 416 Rem Mag that my buddy has is well over my recoil tolerance level. I suppose I could learn to shoot it (I fired it 3 times) but I don't plan on ever hunting anything that I need that much gun for.

 

[BreechFace]

I'll add that it's not just penetration but that's no big surprise. I've seen a 6.5 CM 143gr ELD-X zip right through a big mule deer at 350 yards but that deer still ran a couple of hundred yards before it dropped despite "perfect" shot placement. I'm a fan of tough solid copper bullets with tough petals that open up and make big holes inside the soft tissue. A good .30 cal bullet expands to a significantly larger diameter than a good .264 cal bullet, and my favorite hunting cartridge .375 H&H is HUGE when expanded. Some will tell you that a 6.5 CM with its high SD will out penetrate a .30 cal with a lower SD, but if both are exiting the animal then the expanded size is the more important variable.

Agreed @MCMXI. If both bullets are exiting the animal which is great for tracking an animal, I'll take the one that dumped the most energy and destructive force with respect to meat damage into the animal before exiting. Obviously, shootability and recoil come into account as well, but all things being equal SD by itself isn't the end all, be all that some make it out to be.

 

[MCMXI]

Obviously, shootability and recoil come into account as well, but all things being equal SD by itself isn't the end all, be all that some make it out to be.

I was with a friend from Hawaii a few years ago when she shot a white-tail buck at 165 yards using a .270 Win and 130gr TTSX bullet. She shot him right at the end of legal light and we were unable to find him that night. The next morning we went back to where the buck was shot and eventually found him about 150 yards away in thick brush. There was no blood trail but when we gutted him there was a hole through the heart but he still managed to run 150 yards. Had her .270 Win been capable of delivering more hydrostatic shock perhaps the deer would have dropped on the spot and bled out. Just a theory but it put me off using .270 Win or smaller for hunting deer and elk, particularly given that it was a perfect shot under ideal conditions with an excellent bullet, and a fairly small white-tail at that.

 

[MaxP]

I was with a friend from Hawaii a few years ago when she shot a white-tail buck at 165 yards using a .270 Win and 130gr TTSX bullet. She shot him right at the end of legal light and we were unable to find him that night. The next morning we went back to where the buck was shot and eventually found him about 150 yards away in thick brush. There was no blood trail but when we gutted him there was a hole through the heart but he still managed to run 150 yards. Had her .270 Win been capable of delivering more hydrostatic shock perhaps the deer would have dropped on the spot and bled out. Just a theory but it put me off using .270 Win or smaller for hunting deer and elk, particularly given that it was a perfect shot under ideal conditions with an excellent bullet, and a fairly small white-tail at that.

Every animal is a law unto itself. Sometimes you hit them well with big calibers and they run like the aforementioned deer. Other times you hit them with a small caliber and they drop like a sack of potatoes.