Elk Hunting

[X-Rap]

I think you guys and others really overstate the effects of recoil and the magnum cartridge. I have no doubts that bad fit, poor form, and maybe physical limitations can make magnum recoil uncomfortable but no less than that of heavy shotgun loads or 100+ year old calibers that were originally black powder.
Like I said, I can see how some could have trouble but if I had a dollar for every time I saw someone totally generalize and inflate the effects of magnum recoil as though it were the majority I'd be very wealthy.
I can only use my own experience as an example but my oldest son used a 760 carb for his first elk then quickly moved up to a 300 Weatherby by the time he was 16. I can say I have never heard a peep from him regarding recoil but he doesn't like to shoot my 45-70 and doesn't shoot it as well.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Well X-Rap, you pretty much summed up the problem that a LOT of people have with magnum cartridges, "bad fit, poor form, physical limitations" are MOST peoples problems with mag. carts. Hell I have a Ruger #1 chambered in 450NE and after 5 or so rounds at the range I am crying for my mother! Off hand is not bad at all really but off the bench on bags that sucker is a BEAST. My 300wm barrel is on a TC Pro Hunter system and is pretty light so it has a pretty stout buck to it as well. Limbsaver tames the FELT recoil but it still shoves my large frame around pretty well. Both of my boys were big for their age growing up and were easily fitted with larger calibres at young ages as well. But the key word in that sentence was "fitted". I always made sure that they were not over gunned, that the stocks fit them cleanly and that they could use proper form with the weapon. Small framed people that can't lug around a 8.5 to 9 pound rifle choose light weight rifles which knock the beegeezus out of you with recoil in the magnum calibre's. Nature of the beast. Choose a weapon that fits and not one that kills from BOTH sides! Now some, like a 12 gauge slug gun, there is pretty much no way around the issue. You are getting pounded no matter what unless you shoot reduced recoil rounds which will severely limit range. For those smaller framed people, I would highly suggest going to the 20 gauge slug. Out to 100 yards they are extremely effective and vastly underrated. My niece uses one and she is a wisp of a lady. 5 foot nothing and MIGHT way a buck 10 soaking wet but she is deadly out to 100 yards with her TC 20ga. So far in her young hunting career she has taken 6 deer. Not a one has went more than 10 yards after impact and she has no problems with the recoil from it. But she can't handle more than a shot or 2 at the range with my 12 with slugs and she knows it would affect her hunting because she would flinch. Smart cookie that one is. Basically X-Rap the problem is NOT the magnum rounds but it is the Machismo of men not willing to admit that recoil is affecting them. Hell as big as I am, I got rid of a Rem 760 pump in 30.06 because the damn thing kicked like a mule! It actually made my 300wm seem TAME in comparison! Didn't fit me well and that affected my accuracy as well as increased the felt recoil.

 

[courtgreene]

earlier you asked hunters to weigh in on having to clean up some one else's mess (injured game animal that you have to put down), so I will do just that. A few years ago I would have thought that this was an exageration, but this year it happened twice. Also, I've seen more than I've put down. I can't say that they were limping because of a shot... could have run into a car... but I've seen some limping around with broken shoulders and I would have put them down but didn't have a good shot. So, yes, it has been happening more and more. I don't think the internet is the only culprit though. More people this year than most in the past are hunting to eat... more people are motivated to actually shoot shots that they would pass up because the economy is bad and they need food. I, for one, have taken more meat than in previous years and if the freezer wasn't full I would still be out there knocking off as many does as I could. I am sure the internet commando type has something to do with it, but there are other causes as well. Consider how many hunters there are... that's an awful lot of potentially different motivations to take poor shots. it's hard to limit it to one cause.

 

[X-Rap]

I would not be surprised if deer and elk face more cars than hunters these days.
I guess my peeve is hunters taking after hunters in general when we would do better by reporting trash hunters on the spot to the authorities when they are in violation instead of casting such a wide net and trashing us all.
These magnum and so called long range trashing threads sometimes sound like they would be better read in some PETA propaganda in stead of a shooting and hunting forum.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

These magnum and so called long range trashing threads sometimes sound like they would be better read in some PETA propaganda in stead of a shooting and hunting forum.

But there is a serious flaw in your logic there X-Rap, The "problem" is NOT with the PITA people. Is is with the "Hunters" so why would you post the "problem" where the message would not be read and hopefully LEARNED FROM in a medium that would not seen by the target people? The Anti's and the PITA people are not the ones out there taking shots that they can not make due to whatever reason. It is the "hunters" taking poor shots that are beyond their abilities to make. See what I am getting at? I have absolutely NO problem with hunters. My "peeve", as you call it, is with people out there attempting shots that they are not fully capable of making and it is the animals paying for their poor choices. I am a naturist and that is about as close to religion as I get. I eat what I kill and I do ALL I can humanly do to give back to nature when it is possible. Seeing injured animals because of bravado, false confidence in some magic magnum, no practice at the range, and all the other poor excuses that are out there, for lack of a better word, PISSES ME OFF and I for one can and will do everything I can to educate the people doing this. One good thing about the net is also one of the problems with it. People use it for information and there is a TON of BAD information out there that people fall for. And I can't and won't tolerate poor unethical hunting practices. Best thing to fight them is proper information from REAL hunters that do our best to educate the people in the correct way to shoot well and pick the weapons for the task.

 

[ZeroJunk]

These magnum and so called long range trashing threads sometimes sound like they would be better read in some PETA propaganda in stead of a shooting and hunting forum.

All the anti magnum philosophy started in the gun rags some time ago. It's just in style.

I've seen game shot all up with everything.

I don't generally hunt with a magnum because I don't think I need one. But, I have killed a lot of deer with them in the past just messing around with something different. They are as accurate as anything else, just not very pleasant to shoot and require more care in the position you shoot from if you don't want your eyebrow tapped.

 

[Kachok]

300 win mag is PLENTY. Heck a 6.5x55 is plenty in the hands of a good marksman.

 

[ssmlr3]

300 win

distance shooting= practice. Not reading ballistic charts and then sighting in your gun at hundred yards. If you go elk hunting be in shape, real shape. realize altitude=better shape needed. When you practice it should not only be when it is sunny and 60 but 20 and blowing. ballistics change in temp and altitude.
One more thing. Just remember a good rifle shoots 1 moa. So at 2 hundred it is at least 2" and so on. At 400 yards you are at a minimum of 4 inches if you are absolutely perfect and no wind.
I live in Colorado and regulary shoot at 400 to 500 yards for fun. i would like to tell you I hit every time but at that range there are so many variables. I shoot across canyons etc and the wind does bizzare things to a bullets. have fun and good luck.

 

[natman]

A 300WM is plenty. Use a good bullet.

 

[Kachok]

I just did a very detaild comparison of elk hunting calibers in my thread "Head to Headrectical Big Game Hunting Rifles" The goal of which was to find the best all around elk hunting caliber within a reasonable amount of recoil, and the 300 Win Mag did not just score OK it took the crown as the KING of the elk guns It shot flat, hit hard, and held a 808lbs OGW Optimal Game Weight at 300 yards. While the 338 Win Mag was not in the comparison (Above the max recoil) I doubt it would outperform the 300 in any mesurable way seeing as the 300 is already a reasonable level of overkill for all but the longest shots. Other calibers in the comparison were the .280Rem, 270Win, 25-06, 338Fed, 270WSM, 308, 30-06, 35Whelen, 45-70, 7mm Rem Mag, 338-06, 7mm-08, 260Rem, 257Wby, and the 6.5-284 Norma.
I did not bias the test for the 300 Win mag, I have never owned one and I hunt with a 6.5x55. The areas mesured and scored were killing power devided by recoil both at 100 and 300 yards, trajectory, total 300 yard killing power using the OGW formula.

 

[black timber]

Me and my hunting buddy have shot a few elk with .308s and my handloads, they all died within 20 yards or so. .300 win. will put them down right proper IF you hit them right. If not, well...just do what you have to make sure that doesn't happen.

 

[a-sheepdog]

I will be using a load designed to hold up to heavy bone/muscle. I am a very ethical hunter and would not take a shot that I did not feel comfortable making. I have decided to stick with the 300wm. I have taken quite a few large hogs with it and am comfortable shooting it, but I will continue to practice prior to going into the field for elk.

 

[ReloaderEd]

I have hunted Elk for the past 50 some years. I have used a 270 Winchester with 170 gr. partition bullets. In Eastern Oregon and Colorado I kept most of my shots at or under 300 yes. I sighted the rifle 3" high at 100 yes and could hit an Elk in the neck with no problem for the most part point of aim. I have seen hunters shoot across canyons at 500 yds and probably furhter with very very little sucess. Once I was below a bunch of elk on a ridge and tree branches were breaking off from bullets and falling close by me.
Again practice practice practice at different ranges AND STAY WITHIN YOUR LIMITATIONS!!! be SAFE

 

[HKGuns]

Some were from Archery wounds, 2 of the deer and 1 of the Elk, The rest were from firearm.

I've not seen, but have heard of a LOT of archery wounds discovered during rifle season. One of the reasons I refuse to Bow hunt. I don't have the time to put in the required time to learn to do it correctly. It appears to me there are far too many people who think they are Robin Hood when they aren't.

To the OP, I'd be taking either my .308 or 300WSM on my Elk trip....So I would say use your 300WM and feel confident.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Thank you for having the brains to know that archery requires dedicated practice HKGuns! You are correct that there are many out there that can't seem to grasp that simple concept. You must practice constantly with a bow. Muscle memory is where it's at in archery. Whole other subject though.