The end of an era :(

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Zundfolge

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Looks like the Army is going to phase out the M2 .50

Unfortunately they'll all be destroyed because you can't buy these through the CMP. :(

Source


'Ma Deuce' Days May be Numbered

Probably the longest serving weapon in the U.S. military arsenal is the Browning .50-caliber M2 machine gun. Often referred to as "ma deuce" for its M2 designation, the weapon entered U.S. service at the end of World War I, being scaled up from the Browning .30-caliber M1917 machine gun. The .50-caliber weapon was initially designated M1921.

Using a round designed by Winchester, the .50-caliber machine gun was originally intended for ground troops to use against enemy troops. Subsequently, it was employed as an anti-aircraft weapon and then became the standard armament of U.S. warplanes. In 1932, the design was updated and redesignated M2.

Ground and naval machine guns could be air- or water-cooled, the latter having large "jackets" around the barrel. The weapons had rates of fire from 500 to 650 rounds per minute. Mounts for vehicle and shipboard use soon had twin barrels, while a fixed quad-barrel mount was developed for ground and vehicle use. Its light weight permitted up to eight guns to be carried in fighters and it fit into single-, twin-, and quad-barrel turrets on U.S. bombers. The weapon was used in every theater of World War II by U.S. and allied troops--by 1945 the U.S. Army authorized 237 .50-caliber guns in each infantry division, 385 in each armored division, and 165 in each airborne division.

The "ma duce" was used in large numbers in the Korean and Vietnam Wars, in other crises and conflicts, and, of course, in the Gulf War of 1991 and the later invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.

Now, after almost 90 years of service, the U.S. Army has moved to replace Browning's remarkable machine gun. The Army recently ordered three prototypes of a lightweight .50-caliber machine gun. Produced by General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products, the weapon weighs about one-half of the current .50-caliber M2HB (Heavy Barrel) machine gun, fires with less recoil and is equipped with technology to improve accuracy, according to the company.

The Army and Special Operations Command (SOCOM) will test the new guns and then apply the lessons learned to a potential production design. Low-rate initial production could begin as soon as 2011.

It would take several years for the new weapon to replace the "ma duce" in U.S. service. But even if it does so, the M1921/M2 would have been in service for a century.

Its inventor -- John Moses Browning (1855-1926) -- was one of America's most prolific gun inventors. After making his first gun from scrap metal at age 13, he went on to design pistols, rifles, and machine guns. The U.S. Army began using his machine guns in 1890. Browning's innovative weapons also included the .30-caliber M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR), used in U.S. Army and Marine Corps squads from World War I through the Korean War.
 
somehow I suspect int he national guard and other inventories Ma Deuce has at least 30 more years of life in it.
 
My Guard unit still fields the M60. Which we will use to prevent the National Guard Bureau from taking away our M2s. :)
 
The death of the M2 has been declared before, with the Army buying prototypes of replacements. It just never seems to end up happening.

The M2 still has quite a life ahead of it in the US military.
 
The government should give out the "obsolete" M2's to citizens like us for $1000 each I would buy it in a heart beat.
 
NO! :eek: They can't do this.

It would be un-American. And besides, the .50 is a very useful weapon to have around in a bad situation- as Audie Murphy proved:

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Second Lieutenant Audie L. Murphy, 01692509, 15th Infantry, Army of the United States, on 26 January 1945, near Holtzwihr, France, commanded Company B, which was attacked by six tanks and waves of infantry. Lieutenant Murphy ordered his men to withdraw to a prepared position in a woods while he remained forward at his command post and continued to give fire directions to the artillery by telephone. Behind him to his right one of our tank destroyers received a direct hit and began to burn. Its crew withdrew to the woods. Lieutenant Murphy continued to direct artillery fire which killed large numbers of the advancing enemy infantry. With the enemy tanks abreast of his position, Lieutenant Murphy climbed on the burning tank destroyer which was in danger of blowing up any instant and employed its .50 caliber machine gun against the enemy. He was alone and exposed to the German fire from three sides, but his deadly fire killed dozens of Germans and caused their infantry attack to waver. The enemy tanks, losing infantry support, began to fall back. For an hour the Germans tried every available weapon to eliminate Lieutenant Murphy, but he continued to hold his position and wiped out a squad which was trying to creep up unnoticed on his right flank. Germans reached as close as 10 yards only to be mowed down by his fire. He received a leg wound but ignored it and continued the single-handed fight until his ammunition was exhausted. He then made his way to his company, refused medical attention, and organized the company in a counterattack which forced the Germans to withdraw. His directing of artillery fire wiped out many of the enemy; he personally killed or wounded about 50. Lieutenant Murphy's indomitable courage and his refusal to give an inch of ground saved his company from possible encirclement and destruction and enabled it to hold the woods which had been the enemy's objective.
 

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we need a company to un-machine gun these and just put a crank or a normal semi-auto trigger on them. legally impossible, but it'd be awsome!
 
They won't be able to replace it. It'll take years and hundreds of millions of dollars and in the end they'll realize that they already have the best design. Only problem with the ma deuce is that it's heavy. It's already plenty accurate enough (ask Carlos Hathcock), and the lighter you make a weapon, the more issues you have with recoil, and we're talking about a vehicle or aircraft mounted HEAVY machine gun. This isn't something the troops are going to be humping on patrols, weight isn't the primary focus here.
 
The Army recently ordered three prototypes of a lightweight .50-caliber machine gun. Produced by General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products, the weapon weighs about one-half of the current .50-caliber M2HB (Heavy Barrel) machine gun, fires with less recoil

Well, I guess when you find a company that is able to bend Newton's and Einstein's laws of physics, you have to run with them. :rolleyes:
 
Why am I thinking this is another case where the new weapon costs 20x more than the existing one and doesn't work half as well? Why, why, does the US military keep doing that stupidity?
 
Not now, nor ever been in the military, but folks that I know and respect say the M2 is among the best weapons ever made.
 
You just can't beat the old .50 cal. Heavy, yep. But get that timing and headspace set correctly, and you're in a whole world of happy. It will take years, and you can bet the replacement won't last near as long.
 
the British use the manroy engineering quick change barrel and soft mount so do away with all that tedious headspacing malarky:D
oh how we laughed when somebody stripped the first M2 we saw and then went I'm not sure how it goes back together::fire:
 
The M2 is one of the great weapons for any military application. As brown water and "land" Navy in RVN, we would argue whether the .50 was a heavy machine gun or light artillery. It all depended on the application. The only thing better that an M2 is a twin mount. and the only thing better that a twin is a quad mount...nobody, but nobody argues with a quad.:eek:
 
Dude, when I first came here (I just got out of work so I did not know the ruling) I saw this thread name and just about had a heart attack, that being sad I dint think the changeover will last long.
 
i doubt it. the M2 is to good of a gun browning knew what he was doing when he designed guns. it would take way too long to replace that gun.
 
We can buy them here.

I know a place where they still are available, with no special permit (juste lik a handgun)..

the only problem.. they ask 5000$ than I dont have...
 
We can buy them here.

I know a place where they still are available, with no special permit (juste lik a handgun)..

the only problem.. they ask 5000$ than I dont have...

Not liking you very much right now Swissie...:p
 
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