The Finer Points of Iron Sights Aiming

[dubious]

Hi folks...

What are the finer points of using my trusty Iron Sights (blade, peep, etc.)? I'm talking about how to focus your eyes, and how to line up your target. I'm not talking about the more general points of aiming that are common to all other forms of sights like stance, breath control, trigger pull, etc. I'm trying to limit the scope of this question, but feel free to ramble a little bit so we can all learn something.

When I'm aiming with Iron sights, I tend to use one eye, though I find it possible to aim with two eyes open using peeps. I usually first focus on the rear sight, and line that up with the front sight. Then I focus on the front sight and line that up with the target. Then I drop my focus back to the front sight. Usually there's several corrections as this point, as i recheck the previous steps. Then for the shot, I focus on the front sight with an unfocused picture of the target... and then click until it goes boom!

I'm a barely competent marksman, so don't take my example as the end all of advice.

And people, please forgive me if this has been posted before ad nauseum... any links to resources or other threads are appreciated.

Cheers!
Dubious

"Naturally the common people don't want war... All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Hermann Göring (Head of the German Luftwaffe, 2nd in Command of The Third Reich)

 

[1911 guy]

Front sights make the world go 'round.

Switching focus from one plane to another, rear sight, front sight and target, will hold you back when you're shooting. Your focus should be on the front sight only. The target and rear sight will be visible but somewhat fuzzy. How fuzzy depends on how good your eyes are.

The other two mainstays of rifle shooting are directly related. Find the angle to the target that is natural. Mount the rifle, then move your feet to point it toward the target. Muscling a rifle on target will result in misses most of the time. The second is keeping bone under the rifle. Your left elbow should be directly under the stock. These two things keep the rifle much more steady and your eyes aren't chasing the front blade all over creation.

BTW, shooting with both eyes is the only way to go. The first time you see the buck of a lifetime, close one eye and can't see him through the scope will drive that home. And make you cry.

 

[wanderinwalker]

Like 1911 guy said, front sight, front sight, front sight. Once you remember that, the rest falls into place pretty easily.

Some forms of irons suit certain people and styles better than others. I'm an aperture-sights shooter, and can do OK with blade and notch, but they aren't my favorite. I really like target style aperture-aperture sights, as all one has to do is line up all of the round objects and go for it. But they're not very practical on a field rifle, IMO.

Find your natural point of aim (stance), relax, focus on the front sight and TAKE THE SHOT! I find I blow more shots by trying to dress-up and refine a sight picture than by just taking the first one that looks right. If your NPA is on, you should be able to just settle the front sight and squeeze.

And I too shoot with both eyes open, which I find easier with an aperture than with a notch and blade.

 

[hps1]

When I'm aiming with Iron sights, I tend to use one eye, though I find it possible to aim with two eyes open using peeps. I usually first focus on the rear sight, and line that up with the front sight. Then I focus on the front sight and line that up with the target. Then I drop my focus back to the front sight. Usually there's several corrections as this point, as i recheck the previous steps. Then for the shot, I focus on the front sight with an unfocused picture of the target... and then click until it goes boom!

As 1911 said, try to learn to shoot with both eyes open. Closing one eye causes undue eyestrain on the dominant eye. To determine your dominant eye, hold a finger up at arms length with both eyes open, point at an object, then close first one eye and then other. When you close the dominant eye, the finger will no longer be pointing at the object. You should be use your dominant eye for shooting.

If using a peep sight, forget it is there. Your eye will automatically seek out the center of the peep so that all you need to focus on the front sight. As 1911 said, both rear sight and target will appear slightly out of focus. Open rear sights are a bit more difficult to use, especially with older eyes, but the front sight is still the most important to focus on.

Remember, you have about 7 seconds to break the shot before your vision begins to suffer (blur) due to lack of oxygen. The eyes are the first to suffer when the body is deprived of oxygen. Don't admire the sight picture, concentrate on breaking the shot within 7 seconds.

One tip to help you leave your non-dominat eye open is to place a strip of opaque scotch tape on the lens of your glasses to block the vision of your non-dominant eye. Old time target shooters used a blinder cut from cardboard and slipped it under their glasses. The scotch tape allows light to enter and seems much less distracting to me. After you do this a while, you will find it easy to concentrate on sight picture while still allowing you to view the "whole picture". This is even more important in hunting.

Regards,
hps

 

[ZeSpectre]

Front sight
Front sight
Front sight

Also keep your sight on target for a beat or two after you've fired your shot. When I was trained you did this for two reasons.

The first was that a lot of people shoot and then lower the gun to see what they shot BUT what they are actually doing is beginning to lower their gun BEFORE the bullet has actually finished leaving the barrel. So basically it's follow through. Shoot, pause, look. I don't know why this is such a big deal with iron sights vs scopes but it really is for a lot of people.

The second reason is that if you shoot a badguy and the first shot doesn't stop them, you are still on target. If you lower the gun you have to re-acquire and then shoot which is much slower.

 

[Quintin Likely]

Front sight, front sight, front sight. Don't matter what the target looks like, dress that front sight up, align it in the rear aperture and get it as crisp and clear as possible.

 

[30Cal]

FOCUS ON THE FRONT SIGHT AND THE FRONT SIGHT ONLY. Verify that it's aligned with the rear sight--if it's not, move your head. For casual purposes, it does take care of itself to a certain degree, but if you want to really lay them in, you need to put some conscious effort into sight alignment.

BLACKEN YOUR SIGHTS. Use a candle, match, burning plastic, carbide lamp, or sight black spraycan stuff. It makes a big difference and will help you FOCUS ON THE FRONT SIGHT.

Break the shot quickly. Take the first good shot you see through the sights. The longer you spend looking at the sight, the worse the shot is getting (despite what your eyes are telling you).

I get best results if I crowd the very top of the aiming black. I break the shot when I see just the slightest hint of the target above the sight. I think this minimizes the temptation to shift focus onto the target (or somewhere forward of the front sight).

 

[hagar]

Good advice so far. You also have to find what works for you as far as sight picture. I have been shooting a 6 o clock hold, but my shooting really went downhill in the last couple of years because of astigmatism and deteriorating vision. I am pushing 50, and on the advice of some of my more senior range buddies I changed to a center mass sight picture, and my prone slow fire scores improved dramatically. Before I was getting wild flyers every now and again. It still feels a little weird to me, but I cannot argue with success.

 

[AndyC]

With a rifle, front sight - with a handgun, I focus on the target. I keep also keep both eyes open - works for me

 

[hps1]

hagar: I have been shooting a 6 o clock hold, but my shooting really went downhill in the last couple of years because of astigmatism and deteriorating vision. I am pushing 50, and on the advice of some of my more senior range buddies I changed to a center mass sight picture, and my prone slow fire scores improved dramatically.

When I was young I shot a 6 o'clock hold but with just a hair of white showing between the front post and the bull. As my eyes got worse with age, had to give up the white and use true 6 o'clock hold. Then my groups began to string vertically because I could not distinguish between the top of front sight and bottom of bull. Was pushing black on one shot & 6'oclock on the next and couldn't see the difference or degree if black I was pushing.

Switched to a bolt gun w/aperature front & rear and never looked back. Not worth a hoot for hunting, but the bee's knees for bullseye.

On other sight picture that works very well for 600-1000 Yds is the "frame hold". Just find the zero for a sight picture which shows equal target (white) on top and left and right of the front post. The blade completely covers the black. The thin NM front does not work as well (for me) as the standard front (wider) sight for this. Try it, you might like it. This is with the M1 or M14.

Regards,
hps

 

[LHB1]

Quote: "With a rifle, front sight - with a handgun, I focus on the target."

Nope. With a pistol it is even MORE important to FOCUS ON THE FRONT SIGHT for accurate shooting.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

 

[AndyC]

Nope - I ain't shooting targets with a handgun, I'm focusing on the threat

 

[PedalBiker]

Aperatue (Peep) sight as close to the eye as safely possible. Smallest aperature that light will allow (I have 4 different sizes). The best front sight is also as small as conditions allow. Longer sight radius is a big boost (hence the long barrels on old military guns).

I recently shot an 8" group at 100 yards with foster slugs on an open sighted slug barrel, but it sure was a stretch for my old eyes.

For me it's aperature sights or optics. Open sights are just not fun anymore.

 

[LHB1]

Quote: "Nope - I ain't shooting targets with a handgun, I'm focusing on the threat ."

Hope you manage to hit the threat before it hits you. I'll continue to shoot my way.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

 

[funfaler]

When you have your "Natural Point of Aim" (NPOA) correct, your breathing should result in an up and down movement of the front sight. As you breath, the front sight should pass verticaly through the target, when it reaches the desired impact point, that is when you hold your breath. This will result in a relaxed "aim", then you increase the back pressure on the trigger, concentrating on the front sight only, the target and rear sight will be somewhat fuzzy. When the trigger breaks, and the shot goes off, take a mental "snap shot" of what the sight picture was in relation to the target. Then you will know where you were actually aiming when the shot broke and will know if your point of impact is equal to point of aim for that shot.

I highly recommend getting to an Appleseed shoot, you will learn this down pat and be confident in putting lead out to 500 yards with iron sights.

http://www.rwva.org/yabbse/index.php

Seeing steel swing at 500 yards after an Iron Sight shot, makes your heart warm

 

[thereisnospoon]

Appleseed...

I second the motion that you attend an Appleseed Shoot...

If you look in the link to RWVA you'll find one near you!

Spoon

 

[Dave R]

IMHO, its simpler that all that. Its all about a consistent sight picture. If you can make the sight picture the same every time, and you can adjust the sights, you can make the bullets go where you want them.

A finer front post (or other sight) makes it easier to make the sight picture consistent. A thicker front post may obscure the target or make it harder to get a small target lined up with the big blade.

An aperture rear sight is easier to align than a notch rear, at least for me.

I can shoot relatively small groups at 200 yards with my CETME, because it has a (modified) fine front post and a small aperture rear. But I need a target of the right size to "dot the i" consistently each time.

 

[AndyC]

Hope you manage to hit the threat before it hits you. I'll continue to shoot my way.

Been there, done that, seen the elephant, etc, so kindly don't preach at me. You don't know me, I didn't ask for your sneers, so you do whatever you like *shrug*

 

[hps1]

Pedal Biker: [Smallest aperature that light will allow (I have 4 different sizes). The best front sight is also as small as conditions allow. /QUOTE]

Dave R:
Smallest aperature that light will allow (I have 4 different sizes). The best front sight is also as small as conditions allow.

And:
But I need a target of the right size to "dot the i" consistently each time.

I like small aperatures as well. My rear sight has an infinately adjustable aperature which I set to sharpen the front sight to the max. Once that is done, I choose the proper diameter front aperature to sharpen the target as best as possible for existing light conditions. Beware, of getting too small, however, as too small an aperature hastens eye strain and can cause groups to open as string progresses. The problem in selecting very small aperatures can be compounded on days with broken clouds as the sun is intermittently covered by drifting clouds.

Narrow front sights are great for youger eyes, and when same width as the aiming circle will shrink horizontal spread.

Careful selection of aperature size can make iron sighted rifles very competitive to scoped rifles. The following picture is of a 3" diameter spotter which was placed in my first shot at 600 yards and subsequently moved to each succesive shot until the 14th shot hit the wooden spindle holding it in the target. The rifle was a Mod. 70 30-06 target rifle w/aperature sights and was shot from prone position, no artificial support (other than the rifle sling).

Don't sell iron sights short, but enjoy them while you can; you'll know when it's time to mount that scope.

As Dave R said,

Its all about a consistent sight picture. If you can make the sight picture the same every time, and you can adjust the sights, you can make the bullets go where you want them.

, and maybe a couple of other things like breath control, trigger control, natural aim point, ..................... But that's another story, and ain't it fun?!

Regards,
hps

 

[rangerruck]

i love using sights, but it really depends on how good your eyes are as well. For instance, i allways use the front point of the front site, to split in half the target i am shooting at. even when i am shooting 1 inch dots at 50 yards, i split that target to where if i get a good focus on the circle dot, i only want to see the top half. mind you, this is for target shooting, and diff types of shootign may not allow me this kind of time or support, to get off this kind of shot.
i never look at the back site if it is a peep type, even when i use a typical v type rear site, i look at it, just to line up the top of the front site, with the most vertical lines of the v , in the rear, once i do that, i dont use the rear site any more.

 

[LHB1]

andyc quote: "I didn't ask for your sneers, so you do whatever you like *shrug*

I did not sneer nor include a rude icon nor use impolite language. Only you did that.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

 

[AndyC]

Ah, I see - you just pontificate by posting unsolicited advice based on your opinion and masquerading as fact. Ho-kay... whatever floats your boat, chum.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Okay folks, let's get back on the high road or risk getting the thread closed. (I.E. attack the post, not the poster).

 

[kludge]

me? with iron sights, both eyes open focused on target.

 

[hobbeeman]

1911guy "Your left elbow should be directly under the stock."

Where is it acceptable to rest your elbow? or is this bound in the sling?