The "First 48" Kansas City

[batjka]

Watched "First 48" on A&E Thursday night. It's a really excellent show depicting a real-life murder investigations from the 911 call and to the moment when the suspect is charged (or not charged) in the case.

The case shown was about an 18-year old found shot dead in a Kansas City "apartment complex". The cops saw that a 3rd floor apartment across from where the body was found was shot up pretty bad with multiple bullet holes in the balcony and walls. After obtaining the warrant they broke into the apartment and found 2 shotguns and a 9mm magazine along with multiple spent cases. The owner was nowhere to be found. The announcer then said "the guns were found to be registered to so-and-so".

The owner was tracked down and brought in for questioning. He explained that that day his cousin got into a fight with some people hanging out downstairs and that he came down to break it up. When he came back upstairs the people started shooting at him. He got his shotgun and fired 3 times. Then he got his pistol and kept returning fire. In the mean time he was constantly shot at by several guys. He claimed that he didn't know that he killed one of the assailants until he watched the news.

Police found powder residue on the killed guy's hands, meaning that he was firing a gun before he was killed. The story was confirmed and no charges were brought up in this case. They guy walked free.

So several thoughts and questions came to mind after watching this episode. First of all, is there a gun registration in Kansas City? I thought only NYC has such an abomination.

Secondly, what would you do in place of the shooter? Obviously calling 911 comes to mind, but what else?

Anyway, feel free to share thoughts.

 

[w_houle]

Must've happened on the Missouri side of KC, because KS doesn't have a registration requirement.
I'm not sure how I feel about a gun registration.

 

[ilbob]

Its a TV show.

It could be they meant the guns were traced via 4473 forms, which is itself a type of registration.

 

[Speedlace]

Secondly, what would you do in place of the shooter? Obviously calling 911 comes to mind, but what else?

At those distances, 2nd-3rd floor balcony to alleyway across a parking lot, I would have used a rifle instead of a shotgun.

Anyway, feel free to share thoughts.

I think guy ran b/c he didn't know what the laws on self-defense.
I fired my guns in public, I'm getting in trouble.
The demonetization of firearms.

 

[John Parker]

When you guy a gun from a dealer and they do the NICS thing, doesn't that essentially keep a database as to who bought what gun?

 

[lebowski]

I think I saw that episode. IIRC, the guy also had an AK47 in his apartment. What struck me was that he decided to engage the targets with his pistol when he had an AK (they were pretty far away, ~100yds or so).

 

[Fred Fuller]

Good guys call 9-1-1 ASAP.

Good guys as a rule don't get into urban firefights at 100 yards plus, unless it's in Fallujah etc.

That makes me wonder about the status of the individual involved, charges or no charges. It's pretty apparent what sort of people were across the street...

My inclination is to close this as being of questionable clarity regarding the status of the 3d floor apartment holder, and the applicability of the incident to non-wannabee normal life. The Farnam Doctrine seems to apply in spades to this situation IMHO ( http://www.defense-training.com/quips/2003/19Mar03.html ).

In the off chance anyone has some useful observations, I'll leave it run for a bit. But unless some good, relevant discussion shows up here, this one will have a pretty short life expectancy.

lpl

 

[batjka]

Well, we know the GG's guns were legal. His apartment was searched and no contraband was discovered - no drugs or such. So he seems legit. As to why he's living in a housing project - who knows.

It looked to me like he got into a situation that escalated quickly out of control. He got shot at, he chose to return fire, he won both in the field and in the legal aspect. Pretty clear-cut.

The legality of such a firefight is one of the aspects that interests me. Could the DA have said that he shouldn't have shot back and should have called 911 instead while laying on the floor with bullets flying everywhere?

As far as the gun registration - 4473 forms are not stored in any database and should not show up in any govt's system. At least that's how I understand it. So how did the cops trace the guns, especially the long guns, to the GG? I would really like to know.

 

[HuntAndFish]

From early in the 20th century (1913 or something) up until Aug of 2008, people that wanted to purchased a handgun in Missouri had to obtain a $10.00 permit to acquire (PTA) from the county sheriff's office. So for most of the 20th century, Missouri did indeed have (a form of) state handgun registration.

As far as I know, the repeal of this legislation did not require destruction of the existing records.

 

[w_houle]

As to why he's living in a housing project - who knows.

I spent three years in Denver doing building maintenance in a crack house. I know I'm not the brightest bulb in the box, but I do try. I also know that graduating high school wasn't something the guidance councelor thought was in my future, but I did. Okay, so I failed out of my college intro courses, but I can't sit here and bash someone because they didn't make a model of success of their lives. Oh well... btw, now that I think of it, the story smells like low tide*foghorn sound*

 

[batjka]

I don't know what this story smells like to you, but it was shown in a lot of details including closeups of the body, bullet holes, numerous spent casings from various handguns in the street (at least 3 calibers) and spent casings in the guy's apartment. As well as video recorded interview with the shooter. So it is definitely true. No if or buts.

As far as the housing project goes, I don't think anyone is bashing the guy. On the contrary, I think he did exceptionally well. Good for him and hope he moves out of that craphole.

 

[mattman the gun fan]

i watch this show non stop and ive gotta say this was the first one ive seen of someone actually legally defending themselves with legal weapons. was nice to see for once that someone in some of those neighborhoods follows the law. and i believe i saw this one too. were the guys killed by a dumpster?

 

[Fred Fuller]

There are too many episodes of the show in the can ( http://www.aetv.com/the_first_48/case-updates/ ) and not enough information given so far for me to locate the episode in question with a s l o w dialup connection. But what I have seen in looking for the relevant episode pretty much supports what Jeff White has said here over and over.

If you want to avoid most home invasions, drive -by (or walk-by) shootings, etc., then don't be involved with drugs, gangs or other criminals major or minor. While crime certainly does sometimes spill over onto plain ordinary "straight" citizens, most of the time, people involved in home invasions, drive-bys etc. are mixed up with drugs or gangs or both, or some sort of criminality of their own.

Anyone know of anything to disprove that assumption in this specific case?

lpl

 

[batjka]

Yes, the guy was found by the dumpster.

 

[Fred Fuller]

How about something specific like the name of the shooter, or the name of the deceased?

lpl

 

[Speedlace]

How about something specific like the name of the shooter, or the name of the deceased?

Need the name of the episode.

i watch this show non stop and ive gotta say this was the first one ive seen of someone actually legally defending themselves with legal weapons. was nice to see for once that someone in some of those neighborhoods follows the law. and i believe i saw this one too. were the guys killed by a dumpster?

I've sen three, including this episode.

2nd Lured In/Disaster
Part 1:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0dMWfJ8BGY
Part 2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJM33lZWPHU
Part 3:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh6PtKn7u2g
Part 4:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXxJCiUw_w8
Part 5:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHPHgHX8blo

3rd was similar to the 2nd, I'll find the link a little later.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Speedlace,

I'd also like to find other media coverage of the shooting, as well as this particular teevee show's take on it. Plus whatever else the search engines will spit out. But I have too little time to dig out enough to get started on all that right now, given dialup net access here- I need a name at least.

lpl (retired reference librarian)

 

[batjka]

OK, I found the name of the episode. It is called "Hail of Gunfire". Season 6, Episode 85.

Here's a link to the episode, not sure if it works. Takes forever to load. The A&E website has only a 1:40 min of it, but it gives you a little idea of what happened.

 

[Kind of Blued]

I'm from Kansas City, and a fan of this show, so naturally, I watched the episode in question.

I think it's VERY obvious that the guy who shot in self-defense was by no means an innocent bystander who was attacked for no reason. Something was going on, and the fact that he shot in self-defense seemed due as much to luck or happenstance as it did to anything else.

 

[mattman the gun fan]

from what i do remember from the episode. the shooter in questions cousin got in some sort of conflict with the victims , and they came back and opened fire on the fellow with the shotgun and pistol.

i also remember that the guy seemed really shocked that he had killed someone. you would think with all the rounds that went throught (they show alot of holes) that you could guess someone would be hit.

 

[rainbowbob]

I think guy ran b/c he didn't know what the laws on self-defense.

I think he may have fled for fear of retribution.

 

[Fred Fuller]

OK, with no more documentation forthcoming, this has gone on long enough. It seems there's not an overabundance of innocence in this instance. There are few if any lessons for genuine 'good guys' to learn here, and we aren't going to spend any more bandwidth on it.

lpl