The fun and agony of really cheap guns (RG, Rohm, Hi-Point, etc.)

[WVGunman]

I have a thing for cheap guns, both because I AM cheap, and because I don't have much money. (Two traits that dovetail nicely!) So I have bought my fair share of RG revolvers and Hi-Point guns over the years. Obviously these are not the "best" available, but they are functional, and affordable to mess around with.
The impetus for this thread was a little RG 14 I bought a few weeks ago. This is a tiny, TINY double action .22 revolver, with the only steel parts being the barrel, cylinder and hammer (possibly some internals) and the rest being some pot-metal alloy and cheap-looking plastic
You hear all kinds of b.s. about RGs, so much of it based solely on the truly terrible RG 10. Besides my model 14 I also own a model 38S .38 Special, and both fit what I said before: not great, but functional. They pass the test of being "better than a sharp stick." I have to appreciate the ingenuity of their makers, who found a way to create a functional firearm at such low cost and very little of the "best" material used. I think it is a legitimate achievement, albeit unflashy.
That being said, there are things about them that I discover from time to time that strike me as humorous. I fired my RG 14 for the first time last week, and was surprised at the massive volume of smoke. I measured the cylinder gap, and it came to a jaw-dropping .013 inches. My Ruger Single Six had less than .005 (the least I could measure) by comparison. This was not a fluke RG, I believe. I measured the 38S, and it came to .012. For some reason the 38 has never produced the volume of smoke that little .22 has.
So, as fun as cheap guns can be, they have their limits. I just found something humorous in this.

 

[Jim NE]

I have to admit, I must have my friends at the gun shop confused. I'll buy vintage Smith and Wesson revolvers or a newish 586 from them, yet also buy (or transfer) cheapo guns through them as well. I have a thing for cheap guns, too. Partly because they remind of the guns I used to buy as a young man when I couldn't afford much else, partly because I don't have any hesitation playing "gunsmith" with them. But I also have to have nicer guns in my collection.

My recent cheap acquisitions:

-Titanic .32 S&WL revolver from FIE. Late 1960's. $89. Possibly the worst gun I've ever owned, but I have it working much better now. I just have to figure out how to keep the cylinder pin from coming out during firing...then it might even be considered borderline reliable.

-H&R 922. This one was disappointing, because I had a H&R .22 decades ago and it worked fine. This recent gun has problems...beyond my "smithing" abilities, so it's been back to the guy I bought it from 3 times. Fixed now, I hope.

-Two FIE Titans in .25 auto. Surprising decent. Much better than the old Ravens I used to own. One of the Titans has a very rough, stiff trigger, but both function fine.

-I have a high opinion of Interams era Rossi's, generally, but the pre-Interams guns are more crudely made. Most of the pre-Interarms examples I have qualify as "cheap" guns, but many of my Interarms Rossi revos rival S&W in function. Interarms Rossi stuff is not cheap quality.

But I've also recently purchased a nice S&W 33 Regulation police, a minty '73 Browning Hi Power, and a polished stainless Ruger Single Six, so I like nice stuff, too.

 

[ilbob]

I don't run across pot metal guns much here in Illinois since we have a law prohibiting the sale of guns by dealers that is made from pot metal. You can own them and I would guess private sales are OK since I am pretty sure the sales prohibition only applies to dealers.

 

[WVGunman]

I don't run across pot metal guns much here in Illinois since we have a law prohibiting the sale of guns by dealers that is made from pot metal. You can own them and I would guess private sales are OK since I am pretty sure the sales prohibition only applies to dealers.

What is the point of a law like that? People can own them, but dealers can't sell them?!

 

[ilbob]

What is the point of a law like that? People can own them, but dealers can't sell them?!

it was designed to reduce the chances of black people owning guns.

 

[22250Rem]

If this thread is dedicated to REALLY cheap guns...... Here's the P-25 Raven in .25 ACP that my LGS took in on a multiple gun trade deal in 1995. The shop owner told me he doesn't stock junk and for twenty five bucks it could be mine. So I figured "why not ?" and got it just out of curiosity. This one seems to be an example of the earlier production Ravens when they seemed to use more steel and less pot metal. But I still wouldn't trust it for heavy usage; I've heard too many stories of those things wearing out and/or falling apart after awhile. I've put less than 200 rounds through it since 1995 and most of those were in the first couple years I owned it. A few years ago it got 5 rounds through it just to see if it still works good...... It does but it's just a curiosity item now so I'm not gonna push my luck. Once upon a time these things were fairly common but you don't see them much anymore. It's not like they're gonna be collectible in my lifetime but it's interesting that some younger gun guys I've talked to have heard of them but never seen one in person........ Wow....... I must be getting old.

 

[WVGunman]

View attachment 235311 If this thread is dedicated to REALLY cheap guns...... Here's the P-25 Raven in .25 ACP ... Once upon a time these things were fairly common but you don't see them much anymore. It's not like they're gonna be collectible in my lifetime but it's interesting that some younger gun guys I've talked to have heard of them but never seen one in person

I'm on the fence about including the "Ring of Fire" guns (Lorcin/Bryco/Raven/Jenning/Jimenez) in the subject of this thread. To me, a "cheap" gun is really only fun if it WORKS consistently. That's why I only mentioned the RG revolvers I've fired and Hi-Point; I've used them and know they work. I have also owned a Jimenez .22, and that thing jammed more in one range session than my Hi-Point 9mm did in all the time I owned it.

 

[Jim NE]

To me, a "cheap" gun is really only fun if it WORKS consistently.

I would've agreed with that back in the day. Now I like working on stuff to make it function...IF it's not something I have to rely on.

Anyway, my impression is that the cheapest of today's guns are far better than the cheapest guns of the 1980's or before. Back then I had the .22 RG's with 25 pound trigger pulls or the Jennings .22 semi-autos that just wouldn't cycle anything. The Ravens worked OK, but not much thought went into ergonomics...like how to keep large handed people from having their hand obstruct the slide, for example. Even the two Charter Arms I had back then were consistently problematic.

Now, however, you can buy a brand new Heritage .22 from Bud's for under $125, and be reasonably certain it's going to work well. Or a Phoenix. Add 50 bucks to that price and the same holds true for Hi Point, more or less. And Charter Arms has a decent reputation, though the current 300-400 dollar new price keeps them from being what you'd call cheap guns.

I kind of like keeping an eye out the lower priced stuff from the old days to see if I can get it to function properly. I don't like to buy a lot of these guns...just a few. The exception to that are the inexpensive break top revolvers from 100 years ago. It didn't seem to take much to get them to stop working, so I don't care much for them. Another one to stay away from are the DeClerk revolvers from the 1960's. They were actual Saturday Night Specials that sold for $20 or less. It's said they had an outside life of about 200 rounds.

 

[Hanzo581]

I've always agreed with the saying "I'm not rich enough to buy cheap things". That said, I did buy a Walther P22 which is apparently made of the same metal as matchbox cars and it hasn't let me down yet.

 

[22250Rem]

I'll admit that even I like cheap guns, too. They're interesting and won't cost you a fortune to acquire a few. But the bottom line is that they were built to sell at a low price and that is often reflected in the raw material used in them, the design, the labor costs, and other factors. That's why they break or wear out quicker than guns that cost a lot more. Years ago I saw plenty of the cheapo's wear out / break and generally just give themselves that reputation of inferiority. I have no experience with the bargain level new guns today but if I bought one I wouldn't want to subject it to any high volume usage.

 

[MedWheeler]

I own three that fit this category.

A Jennings J22 purchased new in 1987; it's actually a nifty little shooter within about 10 yards or so. Never had any problems in a few hundred rounds fired but, admittedly, most of those were fired decades ago.

A Phoenix HP22A, purchased new in 2009. Pretty impressive given its price point, well-balanced and with a surprisingly consistent trigger. Maybe only about 200-250 through it, though, with no malfunctions (CCI MiniMags.)

A Hi-Point C9, purchased used in 2013 from a friend who'd found a bottle of rum he preferred over the gun. I've only fired maybe a box of WWB FMJ through it, but it ran well with it, and was less harsh than I thought it would be.

I also own two of the aforementioned Heritage revolvers. The one I've shot is a lot of fun at the range, and pretty much puts 'em where I want 'em. That one is a 4.75-inch "standard" model, purchased new in 2012. The other is a 3.5-inch "birdshead" model purchased new last year, but I haven't shot it yet. The trigger/hammer mechanism doesn't feel as slick as the other one.

I like cheap guns, too, but I don't have any that don't work, so I can't say if I'd still like them...

 

[Tallball]

I don't buy "cheap" guns. I buy inexpensive guns. I have over a dozen well-functioning handguns that I paid less than $200 for. This includes a Ruger, two S&W's, a Makarov, a couple of well-functioning H&R's, a BHP clone, a well-made Tanfoglio SA revolver, an excellent Taurus 357,a solid Kel-Tec P32, a NIB CZ70, and so on and so forth. My favorite Beretta (a Model 96) cost me $230. My Star Super B cost less than that and is one of my favorite 9mm pistols. You don't have to pay much money to get a dependable and effective handgun. You just have to be smart and patient.

 

[Gun Master]

There seems to be a problem of understanding the difference between "cheap" (doesn't cost much), and "dangerous" (poorly built, poorly engineered, and otherwise, dangerous or disintegrating) before your (eyes, hands, or other parts of one's body).

I like doesn't "cost much", but not "dangerous".

Lumping RG, and Rohm, with High Point is ridiculous !
All three (and others) are inexpensive.
I consider the first two dangerous, as in potentially blowing up in your face, etc.
The High Point has been proven to be a good functionally operative HG.
This is not to say the latter doesn't have undesirable qualities, such as heaviness and being bulky, etc. Even these are easily tolerated under certain conditions.

Another poster mentioned the Heritage Rough Riders. I too own one (61/2") and it performs well, plus I have the extra .22 Magnum cylinder.
What's not to like ?

 

[DT Guy]

Years ago, when I was an LEO, we had a suicide who'd used a .38 special RG (or was it a Rohm? Can't quite remember the specifics) to shoot himself through the roof of his mouth-TWICE. The cylinder gap was so big the first round had just enough force to penetrate the roof of his mouth, and the second one sort of pool-cued the first into his brain.


Larry

 

[22-rimfire]

...That being said, there are things about them that I discover from time to time that strike me as humorous. I fired my RG 14 for the first time last week, and was surprised at the massive volume of smoke. I measured the cylinder gap, and it came to a jaw-dropping .013 inches. My Ruger Single Six had less than .005 (the least I could measure) by comparison. This was not a fluke RG, I believe. I measured the 38S, and it came to .012.

Now you understand why I don't buy cheap revolvers. The cheapest 22 revolver I have ever bought was a H&R M999 Sportsman. It had this problem and more. It was a piece of junk but worked. I didn't know any better then (first handgun) but I learned. I bought a Colt Diamondback in 22LR and I have never even considered buying a crappy gun again. Better to have fewer good guns than lots of cheapies. Probably wouldn't buy the Diamondback at today's prices. It would be a S&W now, or perhaps a Ruger.

 

[kozak6]

I will buy an inexpensive gun but I will not buy a cheap gun.

Russian commercial Makarov for $175? Yeah. CZ52 for $150? Yeah.

Phoenix Arms HP22 for $100? No.

My buddy's Phoenix Arms HP22 might jam on every single round in the magazine, and maybe in a different way for every shot. I'm talking every kind of failure to fire, feed, and extract there is. One day, I think the record was three rounds between malfunctions. It had bizarre accuracy issues as well. It was literally unable to hit a soda can at an arms toss. It's impressive that a pistol can be so overengineered and function so poorly.

Or maybe a nice Bryco 9mm for $50? Maybe if there was a buyback coming up. But not to shoot. A different buddy (briefly) owned one. It might similarly malfunction on every single round in the magazine, as well as maybe in a different way each time.

There were three main differences I noticed in reliability.
1. The first round in the magazine would reliably fire right to POA almost every single time. Huh.
2. It was potentially much more reliable with a record of 5 rounds between malfunctions.
3. It had a completely unique malfunction type. The recoil impulse would activate the takedown button, and the pistol would half unhook the slide from the frame upon firing.

Unless you really are flat broke and in an emergency, you are probably better off saving up for a "real" gun.

Or at least go with a Hi Point. I put Hi Point in the inexpensive gun category, btw.

 

[Jack B.]

About a year ago I got what I consider a good deal on a good quality revolver. Paid $600 for a NIB revolver that goes for $880- $900 and has a MSRP of $1100. Plus in the deal I got 4 boxes of factory ammo. I like a good deal, I don't like cheap.

 

[bassjam]

I don't own any cheap revovlers, but I did want to see what all the hype was about for Hi Points so I bought a C9 for $120 a couple years ago. It's been flawless and pretty accurate. I liked it enough that I bought a Hi Point 9mm carbine a few months after that, and it also has been flawless. The only issue I had with the carbine was getting it sighted in. I had moved the rear sight all the way to the left before I realized the front post wasn't aligned with the barrel. Once I fixed that it was good to go.

 

[Jonesy814]

I had a Hipoint C9 for a while. It was very accurate and worked good with most ammo. Didn't work for crap with Tula steel cased ammo though. They are tough as heck too. There is video on You Tube of Iraqiveteran8888 trying to destroy one. They loaded a 50% overcharged round and pounded a bolt into the end of the barrel and it still worked. The finally busted it by using a 50% over charge, bolt pounded down barrel and slide clamped in place so it couldn't move which grenaded the gun
Ended up selling mine to help fund a S&W 638. I have a Hipoint 4595TS carbine too. from a rest at 30 yards it shoots one ragged hole. Am thinking about selling it as I don't shoot it much at all and am more into handguns

 

[Sarge7402]

Funny how we see RG's and Jennings as cheap pot metal guns, but think Glocks are the cat's meow. Really both use a cheap material for non critical areas Zemak for RG's Plastic for glock. Over the last 50 years, I've owned quite a number of pot metal guns, and only had two with an issue. First was an RG 25 Automatic that I shot so much that the firing pin crystalized and broke. $10 to Numerich Arms and good as new. Second the guy that sold it didn't tell me there was an issue with the barrel. Just a small one. Seems that some dimbulb had filled it with lead - one bullet at a time. A uick search on E-bay, another $10 (plus $5 for shipping) and a whole batch of parts including and almost new barrel and about ten minutes refitting it to the revolver and we're back in action. My Jennings is ok with almost all the ammo I can push thru the barrel

 

[Hokkmike]

Its sounds stuck up, but I am not really -but, I am somewhat of a brand-name snob. Reputation, reliability, and even appearance are important to me. I would rather enjoy the "ecstasy" of one or two guns than the "agony" of a half dozen. If you can make it work - good for you.

 

[John_R]

Three words: Heritage Rough Rider!

 

[doubleh]

I own three that fit this category.

A Jennings J22 purchased new in 1987; it's actually a nifty little shooter within about 10 yards or so. Never had any problems in a few hundred rounds fired but, admittedly, most of those were fired decades ago.

A Phoenix HP22A, purchased new in 2009. Pretty impressive given its price point, well-balanced and with a surprisingly consistent trigger. Maybe only about 200-250 through it, though, with no malfunctions (CCI MiniMags.)

A Hi-Point C9, purchased used in 2013 from a friend who'd found a bottle of rum he preferred over the gun. I've only fired maybe a box of WWB FMJ through it, but it ran well with it, and was less harsh than I thought it would be.

I also own two of the aforementioned Heritage revolvers. The one I've shot is a lot of fun at the range, and pretty much puts 'em where I want 'em. That one is a 4.75-inch "standard" model, purchased new in 2012. The other is a 3.5-inch "birdshead" model purchased new last year, but I haven't shot it yet. The trigger/hammer mechanism doesn't feel as slick as the other one.

I like cheap guns, too, but I don't have any that don't work, so I can't say if I'd still like them...

Mini-mags are a little over powered for that Phoenix. I recently traded for the pistol pack to play around with. It states clearly in the manual to use only sub-sonic ammo.

 

[Ironicaintit]

I have an FIE (tanfoglio) Titan II 22LR that I got for next to nothing. It didn't do anything right. Wouldn't feed. Wouldn't fire most times. Wouldn't extract, and then if it did, it wouldn't eject.
But it felt real nice holding it!

It's not worth anything even NIB, so I filed and polished this and that, replaced springs and extractor, and now she's good to go. The finish is crap, but it now has some semblance of reliability, and is actually a nice shooter.
It doesn't like Winchester rounds, but it'll run federal solids all day.

Totally worth it

 

[gonoles_1980]

I have a Jennings J-22, you have to shoot quality 22lr's out of it, or it will jam/stove pipe. I'm found the only round that works consistently is the CCI copper plated bullets. Anything else it jams or stove pipes. Easy to take apart, fun to shoot. But with the cost of 22lr's it's been in my gun safe for a while.