The "Grease Freezes A 1911 Theory"

[english kanigit]

I intend to disprove (or prove) the truth of this myth to myself as it pertains to my methods of firearm use, care and needs.



A little background... I worked at a gun shop for close to a year. I carried my 1911 at work 95% of that time and the other 5% made me real uneasy carrying 'some other gun'.

I have become a fan of using gun grease, namely Tetra, for all my 1911 lubrication. It's never failed me. Right now I've decided to throw it in the deep freeze. In a week, maybe two, I'll toss it into a cooler and go to the range to check functon with it frozen.

Typically I grease the slide rails, barrel exterior and lugs heavily. All the guts (sear, disconnector, trigger, etc...) get a light coating.



I'll see if I can post some pics.

Ek

 

[dfariswheel]

A lot is going to depend on the grease.
Some greases are good to very low temps.
As example, I use Super-Lube grease which is good to -60 below.

One factor I always wondered about, is how many people wear a pistol outside their cloths in sub-zero weather.
I can see worrying about a rifle which is fully exposed.

 

[CWL]

While interesting, I do not think that you are proposing a valid experiment to test failure of grease at freezing temperatures.

Freezers are normally set to 0-5 degrees fahrenheit

White lithium grease has a freezing temperature of -18 degrees Celsius (~-0.4 degrees F).

The grease in your pistol will most likely not be frozen. It doesn't matter how many weeks you keep the gun in there, temperature will not decrease beyond the appliance setting.
Add loss of temperature due to range-travel in cooler, you are already above the freezing specs for the grease.

In addition, reported failures of weapons have normally been in the -20 to -40degree F ranges. In WWII, guns were known to have shattered in these temperatures.

 

[PPGMD]

I think the theory comes from older greases which gummed up as they aged that caused the slide to stick.

 

[english kanigit]

While interesting, I do not think that you are proposing a valid experiment to test failure of grease at freezing temperatures.

Freezers are normally set to 0-5 degrees fahrenheit

White lithium grease has a freezing temperature of -18 degrees Celsius (~-0.4 degrees F).

The grease in your pistol will most likely not be frozen. It doesn't matter how many weeks you keep the gun in there, temperature will not decrease beyond the appliance setting.
Add loss of temperature due to range-travel in cooler, you are already above the freezing specs for the grease.

In addition, reported failures of weapons have normally been in the -20 to -40degree F ranges. In WWII, guns were known to have shattered in these temperatures.

Your point is well taken but this is hardly intended as a scientific test. I have neither the resources nor the time for such a project. The point is to prove to myself that in the enviroments I am in my cleaning and care methods won't leave me with a fancy paper weight.

This is to prove to myself (and a former coworker at the range that couldn't keep his opinion on grease to himself ) that my 1911 will work when I want it to.

The time involved is because I am currently away working on a windmill farm in the armpit of Colorado. I'm going to do this when I get home.

Ek

Post. Script.- PPGMD, your sigline is fantastic!

 

[Arkie]

If you really want to get it cold and not have to worry about moisture try using some Dry Ice. -109.3o F Now that's cold!!!

 

[JohnMcD348]

I remember a conversation I had with a local Sherriff's Officer years ago about what he did while in the Army back in the 50's/60's. He spent alot of time up in Alaska testing the infantry weapons in subzero climates. He said about the only problem with the firearms then was that when exposed for long periods of time, the firing pin would break or even shatter inside the pistol due to the sudden extremes of temperature combined with the impact onto the primer. Never had a problem with the general funstion of the firearm other than the firing pin issues.

 

[GARY1911A1]

I just used Tetra in my 1911 at the Single Stack Classic. I fired around 250 rounds in one day and started to have malfunctions. Other competitors commented that slide guide and gun butter would work much better. Sure enough after the last stage and at a safe area one let me cycle his 1911 and it was much smoother than mine.

 

[MythBuster]

I don't have such problems. I don't carry a gun that requires lube before it will function.

 

[1911 guy]

I've used grease for years.

I subscribe to the theory that if it pivots, oil it and if it slides, grease it.

I use oil (CLP, actually) on the internal parts, those being the hammer, barrel link, sear and slide stop where they pivot. The frame, slide, barrel and bushing all get grease. I just came back from TDI this weekend and went through about 1,200 rounds with no problems.

Oh, I also use CLP in the firing pin tunnel since liquid displaces easier than grease with crud in it.

I've used both lithium grease and op-rod grease, the latter being prefferable to me.

 

[Onmilo]

I have been using Tetra Gun Grease on everything from Glock and H&K USP to 1911s and M1As and AK type rifles.
I have yet to have anything freeze up, hot or cold.

I have to admit that of late I have been using Tetra Gun Grease and M-Pro 7 CLP in a 60/40 mixture that works even better than the plain grease.

Much slicker and the CLP keep the carbon fouling from adhereing to the Tetra grease.
I guess oil and grease do mix.

 

[svtruth]

My father flew a P-51

and they had gun heaters on the six 50 cals so the grease wouldn't bind up. The firing pin embrittlement may have been part of it too.

 

[VARifleman]

I use tw25B on my 1911s. Militec-1 and MC2500 get too gummed up with residue during firing.

 

[revitup]

A much more useful and interesting experiment would be to find out if mixing lube such as CLP and grease in the same firearm would have the rumored effect of gumming up the works. For instance, is there any detrimental effect to lightly coating all parts with CLP and then adding grease locally to the areas that would experience the greatest wear.

 

[torpid]

I don't have such problems. I don't carry a gun that requires lube before it will function.

Well, isn't that nice for you!

 

[Onmilo]

revitup I believe I covered that two posts up from yours.

Mixing CLP and Tetra has had no negative effect on my firearms.
It works better than just plain Tetra and isn't anywhere near as runny as plain CLP
It does not gum up or impeded functioning of any firearm I have used this mixture on for me though the most I have fired in one session through one single firearm using this mixture and without cleaning is 500 rounds.
If I was stuck in the sand box right now I would probably lubricate my weapons with plain powdered graphite and hope and pray I didn't have to fire more than ten magazines or three one hundred round belts in a single firefight.

For clarity, I use M-Pro 7 CLP and not BreakFree CLP in my grease/CLP mixture.

The M-Pro 7 CLP is cleaner, does not have an unpleasant smell,actually it has almost no smell, and it is non-toxic and enviormentally friendly

I mix these products 60/40 that is .6cc grease to .4cc CLP

I feel this is an excellent compromise of lubricants for general purpose use..

 

[1911Tuner]

Freezin' Grease

I don't think the point is to actually freeze the grease, but rather to see if it will get stiff enough at near-zero temperatures to cause a function problem...which many will.

FWIW...Grease and dirt make for a pretty efficient lapping compound, and I agree that a gun that doesn't require oil in order to function is a good idea.
Not sayin' that it shouldn't be oiled...but the ability to run without it is a plus.

 

[BADUNAME13]

MythBuster: considering that all semiautomatic firearms preform better with lubrication (As indeed all mechanical devices do)

I would be interested to know what you use.

 

[DBR]

In my experience grease, over time, separates. Tetra and TW25B separate in the tube. Also, grease collects and holds firing residue and dirt etc.

I have had the best results with 50W synthetic racing oil (no additives like automotive oil). Redline racing oil is what I use, except for guns that were specifically designed for grease like the bolts on M1 carbines, Garands, M14s etc.

 

[Plink]

Sure enough after the last stage and at a safe area one let me cycle his 1911 and it was much smoother than mine.

His gun might have been smoother than yours even using identical grease. That's no test at all. Now if you had used his grease in your gun and noticed an improvement...

 

[GARY1911A1]

Good point Plink. I will be ordering some Slide Guild to try in my pistol.

 

[bakert]

I've been using Shooters Choice High Tech grease in my autos for quite a while and it works just fine but I've never been inclined to put one of my guns in a freezer. One mistake many people make is to overdo it with the grease and like Tuner said a mix of grease and dirt makes a good lapping compound. What was the old hair tonic slogan, "A little dab'll do you".

 

[farscott]

I will be ordering some Slide Guild to try in my pistol.

There are a three versions of Slide Glide as one is recommended for temperatures above 30 degrees F (Slide Glide Lite), one above 50 degrees F Slide Glide #1), and one above 80 degrees F (Slide Glide #3). I have used Slide Glide Lite, mostly on my .40 S&W SVI Limited gun, and it does its job quite well -- until the temperature drops. I can feel the gun slowing a bit when the temperature is below 40 degrees F, and I do not slop the Slide Glide on like some people do. Of course, the Limited gun is shooting powder-puff loads for the heavy slide and bull barrel, something that is much different than full-power .45 ACP loads with a standard slide. I cannot imagine ever using Slide Glide #3 even here in the humid south.

I would experiment quite a bit with a carry gun before using Slide Glide Lite. Actually I am experimenting with Slide Glide Lite on an SA "Basic" worked over by John Harrison. So far the results have been good but we have had temperatures in the low 60's to upper 80's.

 

[mmike87]

I did some shooting on the cold indoor range at my local club a few months ago. The Tetra grease on the slide of my Wilson Combat pistol got thicker in the cold and definitely slowed the slide down. No failures to fire or feed - but the slide would sometimes not lock back.

I turned the heat on when I arrived ... after about an hour it was warmer and no more failures to lock back. While it was cold it definitely seemed a bit harder to slide.

 

[RNB65]

I put a thin smear of Mobil 1 synthetic grease on the rails of all my semi-auto and I've never experienced any issues at any temperature. But then again, I have Raynaud's and don't do much shooting in sub-freezing temps.