The gun nut and depression

[Jefferson Herb]

I don't blame the gun.Ironicly Dad used a ruger in 30 carbine,the same caliber He carried in Korea[Medics were shot at then].To my knowledge,He was'nt sick or hiding something from us [except anger and depression]and as others have stated ;don't talk about it anyway if they're serious.
As a family member,we're all angry with Dad.He had so many talents as a craftsman with wood and metal.If He had been sick and was calling it quits,and saying His goodbyes I could understand.

 

[SsevenN]

I don't exactly know what "significant" means, but I have known a couple of people who have suffered from bi-polar disease severe enough to require hospitalization/medication. I would not want to see them in possession of a firearm at either end of the spectrum - though in truth the hyper end would probably be more dangerous than the depression end.

Mike

Agreed Mike.

Long story short, I had a bi-polar room mate. After a 6 month experience living with him I realized there are people who simply cannot be trusted with dangerous weapons.

I took him shooting, but I was very careful to take him on the "right" day.

Mike, I also agree that the 'hyper' side can lead to serious ramifications. I have never in my life seen someone so willing to injure himself and others over nothing more than a hissy fit. There were times around him, that if he'd had a gun, I'm almost sure he would have shot at the house, if not us and him self.

 

[DocMustang]

No, Doc, a firearm is designed to do one thing and one thing only, to expel a slug of dense metal out the end of a metal tube by the action of expanding gases. Where that slug goes is entirely up to the user

I was waiting for this response. What you have described is what a firearm does. In the same way I could make the argument that a power drill is designed to rotate a cutting instrument at high speed by the action of electromagnetic or fluid dynamic forces. This does not change the fact that it was designed for making holes in the desired object or material. Firearms have always been weapons. That is their historic purpose. The various sports surrounding their skilled use reflect that purpose. If the purpose is merely to expel a slug of dense metal out of the end of a metal tube, why all this emphasis on the ultimate placement of that slug? Then again perhaps the philosophical distinction between function and purpose is not important enough to debate. I tend to think of function as describing manner in which an object accomplishes its purpose. In the context of the power drill example if humans did not require holes to be made in desired objects or materials an object which rotated a cuting instrument at high speed by the action of electromagnetic or fluid dynamic forces would not exist.

Even a .22 cal target pistol, a sporting clay shotgun or a bench mounted "rail" gun which spend their entire operational life and never draw a bead on a living target owe their existence to the myriad of handguns, shotguns and rifles which have been used in war, the hunt, or both. The 9mm parabellum (literally "prepare for war") .40 S&W, 45ACP, .30-'06 Springfield, 5.56NATO, some most popular cartridges for both handgun and rifle use in the sporting world, were first developed for warfare or law enforcement for use against human targets. To divorce firearms from their historical context as weapons seems a bit intellectually dishonest to me. To do so undermines our own arguements in support of the second amendment. We cannot argue on the one hand that the founders guaranteed the right to keep and bear arms to maintain a check on governmental abuse of power and on the otherhand argues that the tools thus protected are by their nature not intended to do inflict harm on the abusers. A large part of the responsibility of firearm ownership is our ability and freedom to direct that power to do harm. As Theodore Roosevelt so aptly put it: "A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."

That being said I do not believe that preventing suicide is a legitimate reason for government to ban weapons of any kind. I merely believe that given the inherently lethal nature of firearms and the irrevocable consequences of their misuse, responsible gun owners have an obligation to keep themselves and their loved ones safe from harming themselves.

 

[conw]

I second your post, Doc.

It's reductio ad absurdum, or somethin'...like saying "No, a car isn't designed to transport people - it's designed to stop when you hit the brakes, turn left when you turn the wheel left...?

It never made sense to me as a pro-gunner, but then just taking a look at some of the sig lines around here (no offense to anyone in particular ) tells me I have different concepts of a convincing argument.

 

[WardenWolf]

For people who have mentioned Tylenol poisoning, here's what it does:

It destroys the liver, resulting in a long and painful death over the course of about 3 weeks.

The mere thought of that is enough to make most people cringe. Oh hell no. And fact of the matter is, most common household pills do something similar; an OD almost invariably just destroys the liver, resulting in a horrible delayed death. The whole "Take a bunch of pills, fall asleep, and die" is largely a myth. It takes very specific prescription drugs to do that.

Now there ARE other things that cause that basic effect, but I'm not going to discuss that simply because giving a suicidal person information on how to painlessly end their life is a surefire way to make it happen. What stops a lot of people is the thought of the pain, or the difficulty involved with carrying out a particular method. In many cases if you were to give them an easy, painless way, they would take it and you would lose them.

Because of this, I will never, EVER give someone ideas. This gives you further ammunition to save someone when they say they are planning to use a particular method, because then you can tell them what a horribly painful or ineffective method it is, and thereby cause them to scrap their plans because they don't know what else to do. Don't laugh. I've done it. Knowing how horribly BAD some methods are can be used to stop a potential suicide. Never, ever mention anything GOOD about any particular method to a potential suicidee.

I've walked both paths. I've walked the path of the severely depressed and even suicidal, and the path of one trying to stop a friend from taking his own life. I've learned the hard way how the depressed mind works. Suicide comes out of a need to stop the pain, shame, or guilt. Sometimes the only way to stop someone is to emphasize that taking their own life by a particular method would only add more to what they are already suffering. Since they are already at the point where they cannot take more, it will usually cause them to shy away. Therefore you need to keep that card, and play it well. And whatever you do, don't give them any more ideas.

 

[expvideo]

I just bottle it up.


Just kidding. I don't really get depression too much, but I find that having someone to talk to about those kind of things always works wonders. Sometimes just going out to a truck stop restaurant and drinking coffee and having a cigarette with a friend is the best kind of therapy. I'd stay away from liquor, though. It's easy to become dependant on alcohol if you are trying to use it to fight depression.

 

[Officers'Wife]

And the really sad part of it is- if the Brady's spent as much time, energy and money on treatment of depression/mental illness as they do for the gutting of the second amendment they would save far more lives and make the city streets far safer.

For their particular end, however, this is an effective strategy. Should they be able to create the attitude that (depression + firearm= suicide) and since depression is present in various intensities in everyone's life at some point, lack of gun ownership becomes a reasonable precaution. It would appear to me the best counter would be education on the various forms of depression and encouraging treatment of the condition. Or is that too practical?

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Off Topic

Guys, while interesting, this isn't actually a gun topic.

If you really want to explore the world of depression, feel free to take it to APS.

I'm sure G98 will thank me for that suggestion.



Anyway, let's move on.