The "jeffshootsstuff" method for rapid reloading using LCT Lee Classic Turret

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1KPerDay

1KPerDay

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There have been several discussions of late discussing ways to improve the speed and efficiency of the "semi-progressive" function of the Lee Classic Turret press. I do not wish to claim that other methods are not cost-effective or not efficent, nor do I wish to justify the concept of "speed" in reloading.

If you enjoy going slow, loading in 50 round batches on a single-stage press, or hand-indexing a turret, that's great. More power to you. Me, I have a lot of kids and very little free time, and any time wasted during reloading is time that could be better spent riding my motorcycles or "unloading" loaded rounds.:D So my personal feeling is if you CAN be more efficient and load more rounds per hour spent, without compromising the quality or safety of the ammo, and you still enjoy the reloading process enough to do it, why not speed things up?

Okay, with caveats out of the way, here's my personal preference in speeding up the process. I arrived at this method through trial and error, loading several thousand rounds using the traditional method of running the turret press. I tried combining motions in different ways, placing the "dump bucket" or completed round boxes in different locations, etc. until I arrived at my personal method. Others may have come up with this particular method on their own before I did, but I've never heard of anyone else doing it.

So if you don't care to watch the video below, here's what I do, described in excruciating detail that takes longer to describe than to perform.

Press empty start:
1. grab a piece of clean brass from container placed to the left of the bullet container, which is placed to the left of the press.
2. insert brass into shell holder
3. raise ram/lower handle, decap and size
4. with left hand thumb, press lee safety prime lever and insert primer into primer ram.
5. left hand reaches for bullet while right hand lowers the ram/raises the handle and seats the primer, then raises the ram to expand/charge.
6. Left hand places the bullet after visually checking the powder level.
7. Left hand reaches for fresh piece of brass as right hand raises ram to seat bullet.
8. HERE IS THE KEY: Left hand middle finger swipes completed round from ram as it lowers, and thumb and first finger insert the fresh brass into the shell holder, THEN LEFT HAND PALMS COMPLETED ROUND. Don't move to drop it in bucket yet.
9. Right hand raises ram to size/decap, and left thumb presses lee safety prime lever while completed round is still held in left hand fingers.
10. right hand lowers the ram to seat the primer, and raises the ram to flare and charge. These two stages of the press are the time during the turret loading cycle when the left hand is "waiting" for something to do, so it is at this time you drop the completed round into the bucket or place it into the box, and reach for a fresh bullet.

Continue as above.

I've timed myself several times and I can load 7 rounds a minute if I don't flub any exchanges or primer insertions, and 5 to 6 rounds a minute consistently with the occasional flub, checking primer depth if something feels weird, and occasionally confirming/measuring overall length and weighing the occasional charge, and refilling primers (which takes about 15 seconds).

If you have evidence to show a more efficient loading method using the Lee Classic Turret, I'd love to see what you've come up with.

https://youtu.be/zHUYPGqtqEk


If you don't care, well, have a nice day anyway. :)
 
Nicely done

I have posted several time before, "You are your own factory manager, quality controller and safety office."

Design your loading algorithm and your bench as if you were the architect of a factory floor (as, indeed, you are building your own ammo factory). You are your own quality control department as well as production supervisor.


I cannot emphasis strongly enough that you MUST design your loading process (algorithm) and lay out your loading bench carefully. Think of your loading area the way a production designer thinks of his factory floor, because that's what it is. With a factory's QC (Quality Control), safety procedures, producton rate, whole set of design parameters, all of it. Treat your loading bench as if you were Henry Ford designing his first assembly line, or Beam, Inc (a distillery is the epitomy of batch processing, isn't it?). You can get the optimum of all your goals, safety, quality, accuracy, efficiency no less than if you were head of production at Hornady, Buffalo Bore, Tula or Remington.

More power to you. You have a method that works for you and I can find no fault with it at the moment. Very nicely described, 1KPerDay.

Lost Sheep
 
When reloading 9mm I deprime/size on a single stage. Clean, hand prime 500 to a 1000. The first stage on my Lee Classic turret is flare and powder drop. Then to a bullet feeder die, bullet seat then to a factory crimp die. Can load 300 to 400 rounds per hour if I keep my rhythm going smooth.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk
 
NO, NO, NO, your doing it all wrong, just get a Dillon SDB. One placement of brass, one of bullet and a lever swing, and your done.:neener::D

Lefty:D
 
Like playing funk drums, running a LCT fast is all about the left hand, baby!
 
The one thing I can't do consistently and the source of some problems is the safety prime. If I use my right hand they are very consistent... say 95% but if I use my left hand then it's about 60%. So this forces me to take my hand off the handle to the primer part. Slows the works down i know.
 
1KPerDay said:
...until I arrived at my personal method.
Click to expand...

As long as safety is not compromised, this is key to happy, efficient reloading for each individual.

Nice job figuring out a process that works well for you and sharing it.

I frequently find ideas from others that help me tweak my reloading process.
 
RandyP said:
I eliminated the removing steps altogether and installed the TERRIFIC Inline Fabrication case ejector system on my LCT, improved my speed at least 25% but mostly eliminated excess handling of brass. Set the brass once and done.

http://inlinefabrication.com/collec...r-for-the-lee-classic-turret-reverse-rotation

watch the video attached for operation.
Click to expand...
I've read good things about those and am curious to see video or other evidence of 300+ rounds per hour production rate. It does eliminate the removal of the completed round, but in my method you remove and insert in the same motion so the only thing the ejector would do for me is eliminate the motion of dropping the completed round in the bin, which is accomplished during the 2 die stages where the left hand isn't doing anything anyway.

I'd like to try it out to see if it would indeed speed up the process in my case.

One thing this all does for me is make me want a dillon 550 :D.

I think the LCT is extremely versatile, easy to change primer sizes and fill primers, and changing calibers takes like 30 seconds. I suppose if you add up all the time filling primer tubes and etc the dillion is still much more productive than the turret (producing one completed round each stroke of the ram, rather than every 3-4) but all the primer fiddling and adjusting stuff seems like it would be a pain.
 
If all you reload is straight walled pistol get a Dillon SDB. Otherwise, though it is a big jump get a Dillon 650. You don't have to get the case feeder right away or, you can look for a used one. I've had mine (used) about 10 years now and if one used wasn't available I would buy it new if I knew what I know now. While the 550 is a step up from your current press you are still cycling the shell plate assembly manually for each round, and placing brass and the bullet. There are still a lot of manual steps.
 
It's great you have a product flow that you like. For me, I like reloading. I don't need to make it more "efficient" because I don't have a quota nor time limit. I many not be real bright, but I have no need to be "efficient" to have fun...:p
 
Have you guys that always knock our slower presses ever considered that we might not want a Dillon? It's ok if you have a dozen Dillons, but it is equally ok that I only have one LCT.

Have a blessed day,

Leon
 
Lee Classic

Can't quite tell, but it looks it is harder to double load the powder in a Lee Classic than in a Dillon 550B based on how the turret cycles in the Lee vs. the hand cycling in the Dillon.

I have a Dillon 550B and like it and am very happy with it, so this by no means an attempt to bash Dillon.
 
mdi said:
It's great you have a product flow that you like. For me, I like reloading. I don't need to make it more "efficient" because I don't have a quota nor time limit. I many not be real bright, but I have no need to be "efficient" to have fun...:p
Click to expand...
Like I said, more power to you.
 
Handgun reloading...

Lee cast turret press $100.00
Lee auto drum powder measure $36.00
Lee safety primer for turret press $25.00
Total $161.00
On a really good day it churns out 250 rounds per hour.

Hornady LNL Progressive $420.00
On an average day churns out about 450 rounds per hour

Observation: The difference in price between the two presses is $259.00. Some might say that for a one time cost of $259.00 you can make considerably more rounds per hour without all the hustle and bustle by using a progressive. Others might claim that although a shooter may consume 500-1000 rounds of handgun ammo per month, $259.00 is a ton of money and spending even 1 cent over the cost of Lee is sinful.

Question: If you are consuming 500-1000 rounds per month why would you for the sake of $259.00 go through all this scheming and plotting to increase output?

True or False: The handloader who makes 300 rounds per hour is by virtue of using a $100.00 turret press is carefully handcrafting his ammo while the progressive press user making 400 rounds per hour is careless and a disaster simply waiting for the proper time and place.

BTW: a few weeks ago on another forum I helped a guy purchase a mint condition Dillon 450 progressive press with auto primer feed and dies for 45ACP for $100.00 total. That's right, for what you spent on your Lee turret press this poor guy got stuck with a Dillon progressive. Some might say take your time, ask around and look for good used stuff if money is an issue. Others might say that you should be wise with your money and come up with all kinds of hair raising methods to ensure that you make it to the dinner table on time.
 
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good points. To make the comparison more fair, add the cost of complete new caliber changeover setup in both presses. For the LCT it's a $12 turret and $30 for dies, unless you don't want to buy a new turret. Also factor into your hourly total the time it takes to change calibers, primer sizes, and refill primers. I wonder how much greater advantage a progressive gives you in a situation where you start without primers pre-loaded into tubes or whatever, then load 200 rounds of large primer .45 ACP and then change calibers and powder and load 200 rounds of .380. This is something I do regularly. I imagine the progressive would still produce more but it'd be interesting to see data.

I imagine once I spring for a 550 or 650 or something similar I'll praise them and decry anything lesser. But there is a lot to be said for a very inexpensive, very versatile, very easy to use machine that produces great ammo without a lot of fiddling, and changes calibers and primer sizes in 30 seconds. I've loaded about 35,000 rounds on my LCT so far, so I figure I've got my money's worth. :D

BTW I don't consider it scheming and plotting. I consider it making the most efficient use of a particular system. Words matter.
 
If you want to be totally fair and factor in "efficiency of the set-up" then comparing 1 handle pull per round vs. 4 handle pulls per round then the one-time caliber change over cost evaporates in the rhetoric.
 
I have to admit that when I first started handloading and even before that when I was looking at purchasing my gear, the cash outlay of any progressive press set-up made me wince. I didn't want to go totally low cost so I waited. Actually, what I did was wait for Christmas and asked my wife for my initial set-up and of course she purchased exactly what I specified. Still, that set-up was a single stage.

Then, as my ammo supply increased, my appetite for ammo also increased. That I needed to pick up the pace became obvious but even then I still didn't want to spring for a progressive so I settled for a turret. Convinced myself that it was a "semi-progressive" press.

Question: if a turret press can be considered a "semi-progressive" , why couldn't a single stage be considered a "semi-turret"? The truth of the matter is a turret press is a single stage press with the ability to hold multiple dies and/or a powder measure.

After about a year with a turret I began to desire still more speed so again I asked for another press (my progressive) for Christmas. I actually held off installing the progressive for almost 9 months while I made a new bench and accomplished a bunch of (non-firearms related) projects around the house.

But having a progressive is still not enough. Mine is the LNL, as time has progressed, I've added several add-ons from Inline Fabrications; the Ultramount, 2 bin ammo bracket, short ergo handle, large finished ammo bin with heavy duty bracket. From Hornady; the LED light, PTX die (for each caliber), extra powder measure lower units (one for each caliber) and the quick link adjuster (one for each caliber) and the micrometer metering adjuster for the small powder drum. From RCBS; the lock out die. All this in addition to the caliber specific dies and shell plate.

I can make caliber changes in about two minutes. I can change from small primer to large (and vis versa) in about 4 minutes. Still, having become used to loading on a progressive with all the efficiency and comfort add-ons mentioned, I'm beginning to think about expanding my horizons and get another LNL progressive. Once you get used to the cost, the convenience, speed and comfort, these things have a way of softening the financial blow. Either another LNL or a case feeder for the one I already have. Both are just a matter of time.

I still have my single stage and turret press. If I had to chose between one or the other it would be the single stage. Right now I have my turret press mounted on it's own Ultramount. My single stage has the same mounting foot print so I can switch from one to the other in literally about a minute.
 
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1KPerDay said:
I wonder how much greater advantage a progressive gives you in a situation where you start without primers pre-loaded into tubes or whatever, then load 200 rounds of large primer .45 ACP and then change calibers and powder and load 200 rounds of .380. This is something I do regularly. I imagine the progressive would still produce more but it'd be interesting to see data.
Click to expand...

Here is some information, a single data point though. Not necessarily the highest production rates but gives an indication of how outside influences affect the overall rates from lights on to lights off in the reloading room.

On my single stage press, I can turn the lights on in my reloading room, set up the press, prime the cases, load 100 rounds, store the ammunition and components away, and turn the lights out an hour later.

This rate goes up a little in the second hour since I've already set up. I've been obtaining these rates at an easy level for decades. Practice makes perfect.

On my progressive, lights on to lights off I still only get about 100 rounds if I load for an hour. The second hour, the numbers jump dramatically.

In both cases, I do start with clean, resized cases.

A big difference is I run out of steam after about two hours operating the single stage press while I can run for many more hours on the progressive at one time.

A major time consumer on the progressive is storing the ammunition away. With the single stage, this happens seamlessly as the round is pulled from the press. With the Progressive, the rounds get dumped in a bin and I have to handle each round again placing them in my storage chamber of choice.

Also, since I do not know what I am going to load session to session, I store all the dies away requiring set up and shut down time at each loading session. My choice.

I do like running a progressive for numerous reasons but I do not get the 4 to 5 times the increase in rate from lights on to lights off that the manufacturers claim.
 
thomas15 said:
If you want to be totally fair and factor in "efficiency of the set-up" then comparing 1 handle pull per round vs. 4 handle pulls per round then the one-time caliber change over cost evaporates in the rhetoric.
Click to expand...
Not really, the way I see it. If theoretically there's 15 minutes of setup before you pull the handle, it still counts as work and it's still time used in creating ammo. I'm not saying there IS 15 minutes of setup because I don't know myself. But whatever setup/changeover/primer loading time you take is still effort used in the production of each final loaded round. One may be more STRENUOUS or more annoying or more repetitive or on a personal opinion basis more or less desirable, but you can't just say that one is inherently more efficient based on one pull per round. Theoretically that one pull might take you 10 seconds. or setting up the press might take an hour.

And if we're talking about evaporating the rhetoric, factor in all the addition costs of stuff, adjustment links, etc. you've added to your initial monetary comparison up there.

It seems logical that if you keep one progressive set up for your primary caliber that there's no comparison between speed of production, even including primer filling or whatever occasional checking/adjusting is necessary. But for people who shoot smaller amounts of quite a few calibers and change out sizes/powders/dies often, it might be preferable to select a cheaper, easier, simpler setup that may (theoretically, and factoring in all changeover and setup time) result in a greater number of completed rounds than many are led to expect.

I can't wait until I can afford a progressive and I can do a "start from scratch" comparison for myself. :cool:
 
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