**** the Law: Illegal Concealed Carry

[Powderman]

Even if bad cops in cities were exceedingly rare, which unfortunately they are not, one bad cop is all I need to ruin my day. Every time I think about why I need a chl in order to carry a firearm, the answer is that there are bad cops who may search me without cause. If all cops were like you, I would have carried when I lived in San Francisco.

And, therein lies the rub. Do you exercise the right--yes, the God-given, inalienable RIGHT of self defense? Or do you take your chances with being found out?

That's a serious catch-22. You're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't.

There is one thing in your favor, though. That is, that most cops will NOT hassle a citizen for no cause.

I am, however, familiar with the type you mention.

Once, I was in a two man car with another department (also Tribal, long since closed by the Tribal Council--but that's another thread). We saw a guy that had been in trouble with the law before. The other officer, who was driving, stopped the car.

"There's trouble, there." he said. "He needs a good rousting, he's overdue."

Problem was, this guy was doing my FTO.

He said, "Go on, let's see how you handle this guy."

I got out of the car, and approached the pedestrian, who had turned around and was watching me with a jaundiced eye. I started out with, "What's up? Haven't seen you in a while." He replied, "Well, I guess that I'm staying out of trouble."

We talked for a minute or so, with him visibly relaxing as time passed. Finally, he said, "Can I go now?" I replied, "Dude, you could have walked as soon as you saw me. You didn't even have to talk to me, I was just saying hello."

He gave a visible start at that. "What do you mean? You're a cop."

I replied with this: "Listen, guy, you do NOT have to stop just because I'm a cop. You have that right. If you don't want to talk to a cop, just tell them that. They had better leave you alone--unless they tell you that you are not free to leave. Then, you need to talk to them."

"But, what if I haven't done anything?" he asked. I said, "Do what the officers tell you. If you haven't done anything wrong--remember everything that goes on. Don't say a word--demand an attorney immediately. Make a mental note of everything that happens from the time you're stopped, until the time you are released. Then, call your attorney, and the Tribal Council."

He looked at me. "You're different. You're not out to make a name for yourself. You're a good guy."

I said, "I try to be. I'll see you later."

I caught hell from my FTO for not "rousting" the guy.

I also talked to the Sergeant about it. I was told not to worry, and that I did the right thing.

Ironically (or perhaps not) this same guy was fired later on for excessive use of force.

Yes, I swore an oath when I put on the badge.

I also swore an oath long before that, for the first time in 1977.

Both of them say, at some point or the other, "I, _________, do solemnly swear to support and defend the Constitution of the United States...

That includes the Amendments, too.

 

[tyme]

I wouldn't want to take your comments out of context, so I'll include here your entire first reply to 7.62mm's scenario. These are all quotes from another thread that I think has been vanished due to personal attacks.

(sevenpoint62mm) Last year I was sitting with my friends in the parking lot of an apartment where one of said friends lives. We were sitting on the hood of his car drinking sodas and cracking peanuts, talking about old times. This is about 2 am on a Saturday night (err Sunday morning) and its a fairly high crime area (Pleasant Grove for you Dallas folks). Anyway we're all late 20s but not the type you'd think are up to no good.

So along comes Johnny Law cruising the parking lot for car thefts and the like. We think nothing of it as they pass but strangely they turn around and come back. The cop in the passanger side hops out and she walks towards us

(sendec) Your lawyer'll love ya- Cha-ching!!! One PX x.25 billable hours, you just spent between 50 and $125, for which an honest lawyer would tell you: Dont screw with the cops - Hers is bigger than yours

You dont have a leg to stand, er, hood to sit on. Any cop who could'nt articulate reasonable suspicion in that scenario needs to be re-assigned to Emissions Enforcement.

I have fond memories of balmy summer nights in the projects, cruising thru the alleys while garbage bounced off the lightbar, the dulcent sound of gunfire echoing off the rubble, a suburban kid nervously trying to figure out how he can explain his dad's Saab getting stolen by a crackwhore, who you happen to know is really a dude because you've arrested him or her or it 3 times, this month......Yes, those were the days

I'm interested in the 2nd paragraph. If you can form reasonable suspicion there, why isn't there reasonable suspicion in the case of a well-dressed person walking in a suburban neighborhood at 2pm? Too late for lunch, too well dressed, odd mode of travel, etc. 2AM? Too late, too well dressed, odd mode of travel, etc.

(Powderman) sevenpoint62, the officers who stopped you did not have any reason to do so, based on what you have said. Of course, they might have still been in the "something to prove" stage. Still, they did NOT have a reason to stop you.

The statements by you and Powderman neatly bypass whether it was a Terry stop or not (which I doubt it was). Powderman said it couldn't legally have been one; you said it could have been.

All I meant by "admitted cop" is that you've stated you're a cop and nobody has reason to think you're not.

My qualifications? I have none. I'm neither a lawyer nor a cop. I'm a young techie who has gained an interest in politics through being roasted over a grill labelled, "From Washington, D.C. with Love."

 

[sendec]

"My qualifications? I have none. I'm neither a lawyer nor a cop."

Nuff said. You have firmly established your credibility.

 

[cropcirclewalker]

Don't walk like a duck, talk like a duck, or quack like a duck, and you won't be treated as a duck.

So, I am just a dumb a$$ed citizen, but it appears to me that soon

the duck

will become a protected class.



Aflack.

 

[cropcirclewalker]

Hi, ho, there, Mr. Tyme. I used to feel like

I was a newbie and probably doing wrong by taking on the apologists for the police state. Now I see that big tyme posters like you are also getting jumped on too by them.

Yes, I was an innocent citizen who got hassled by the police state. Like you, I have no credentials. I am just an ordinary citizen and, yes, I was hazarded by the system. Mr. Sendec has excoriated me on occasion for relating the episode. He says I have an "Issue"

I have no record. I am not a gang banger. I am not a druggie. I am a common, ordinary citizen, a VN veteran who was jumped on by the "police state" who, because of the war on terror, (amongst other reasons) I armed myself in order to be assistance to the "civil authority".

When one is to talk about "Credibility", Mr. Sendec's is exceeded by (amongst others) zero.