The Left’s ‘Reasonable Gun Owner’

Status
Not open for further replies.

TT

member
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Messages
375
Location
Sunnyvale, California
I’ve read quite a few articles where a gun-hater (in this case, Al Eisele of Huffpo) tries to make himself look fair-minded by writing about a friend who ‘has an intimate knowledge of firearms’, but nevertheless hates the NRA because they won’t support banning handguns and repeating long arms- this one is pretty much the same stuff, with a ‘Obama dissenters are murderous paranoid racists’ twist thrown in to keep it current. A good read to give you an idea of where the Left is coming from.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/al-eisele/a-gun-toting-pistol-packi_b_563675.html

Al Eisele

My recent posting about the April 19 ceremony at the Oklahoma City National Memorial commemorating the 15th anniversary of the bombing of the federal building that killed 168 people ("Pondering Timothy McVeigh's Lethal Legacy") generated more than 465 comments from HuffPost readers, far more than any for the approximately 100 postings I've written since my friend Arianna Huffington invited me to contribute to her start-up blogging venture five years ago this month.

As any HuffPost blogger quickly learns, readers' reaction runs the gamut from commendation to condemnation, the latter often in language you'd only hear in a biker's bar (at first, it was a bit unsettling, but now I tell my wife it's like when the Mafia tells the family and associates of the guy they've just rubbed out, "Don't take it personally, it's just business.")

Be that as it may, one of the most interesting responses came in a letter from Jim Coyne, a classmate of mine at a Catholic liberal arts college in Minnesota run by Benedictine monks. He's Jim Coyne, a retired advertising executive who splits his time between homes in New York City and Carbondale, Pa.

As you will see, he has an intimate knowledge of firearms, as I once did while shooting squirrels, rabbits and pheasants on our farm in Minnesota. But I've rarely used a firearm since I was in the military -- I qualified as expert with the .45-cal. pistol in Army officers school -- except for a few duck and goose-hunting expeditions on the Chesapeake Bay. Anyway, his response is thoughtful and thought-provoking, to say the least. I think you'll find it interesting. Here it is:

Dear Al:

I happen to share your concern about the lethal groundswell in the firearms community, for reasons at least as cogent as yours. I don't need to apologize to you, a fellow Midwesterner, for my lifelong involvement with guns. We -- or at least I -- grew up with a shotgun and a .22 rifle standing next to the umbrella in the hallway. That all went away when I came to New York City in 1959. In the fall of 1986, however, I started going back to South Dakota to hunt pheasants again near my hometown, and gradually I acquired a number of guns I'd fancied ever since boyhood. I've been licensed in NYC (no easy thing) and Connecticut, and now in Pennsylvania (much easier).

Finding a place to shoot has never been easy for a Manhattan resident. It involves driving considerable distances into the exurban environs to find a "sportsmen's club," which then requires an annual membership, which further requires each member be an NRA member in order for the club to cover its liability insurance policy as provided by the NRA.

So there I was, schizoid -- the liberal, peace-loving, college-educated guy to my friends and colleagues on Madison Avenue -- while at the gun club I was the gun-toting, pistol packing, rifle loony from Manhattan. If my peacenik, furcoat-hating, Bambi-loving pals in the City knew of my shooting self, it could cost me work; whereas to the guys at the club -- the right-leaning, dyed-in-the-wool Second Amendment fanatics, subtly racist, suspiciously fascistic -- I had to pretend I still had cowflop on my boots from South Dakota. (I shouldn't overstate this -- I usually just clammed up whenever talk drifted far right-ward.)

For the past 24 years I've been a classic man in the middle, and I've seen close-up how effective the NRA is with its propaganda espousing "liberty" and "freedom." Since President Obama's election, the NRA response has been nearly hysterical, and obviously it has had a large role in the growth of the Tea Party movement. The gun dealers loved it, however; rifles, ammo, and every primer for reloading was swept off the dealers shelves within days of the election, and stayed off until late last year.

Through the years I've subscribed to a number of gun magazines, some of which I continue to read, and since the election I've witnessed a growing number of articles that comment on "the current administration" and what a menace it is to the rights of the readership if allowed to prevail.

The ballot box is one thing, and I've put my trust in it. But about a year ago I began to notice that more and more of these articles aren't dealing with topics of high precision accuracy, or with finely-tuned competition rifles (as I favor). No, the emphasis has switched to the semi-automatic platform, the AR-15 and AK-47 -- once disdained by the bench-resters and long-range competitors as blasters and alley sweepers.

Now more articles are being published dealing with how to make modifications to these military-style firearms, how to squeeze more and more accuracy and performance out of them. Just yesterday at the drugstore I found an annual Gun Directory in the magazine rack. In it were listed 30 semi-automatic combat-style rifles, ugly, clad with every conceivable contrivance and gimmick to make each appear more deadly than the next. Deadlier to whom and to what, I ask? Is the citizenry preparing for war? Civil war? The gun press insists on calling these things "sporting rifles," as though a deer hunter or varmint shooter needs a rapid-fire, multi-round semi-automatic weapon basically designed for warfare. Yes, the old right wing double-think is out in full force. And it's scary. Numerous news items on militias and open carry of guns at rallies in the past three months bear me out.

So, yes, I share your concern with where the far right crazies are headed. It's sheer serendipity that I would read your Huffington Post article now. I have no idea how many others have seen both sides of the issue from as close a perspective as I have, but I'm ready to blow my cover and take a stand. I let my NRA membership lapse shortly after Obama's victory and no longer have any affiliation with any gun club. I never expected to see things turn so far to the right -- I thought the country was en route to new heights of enlightenment. Instead, almost the opposite has happened. In many respects, it's devastating... but certainly challenging.

Whether it was conscious or not, you cited a precept of the gun culture that I discovered early on, one that has confounded me the most -- "Agree with me or I will kill you." Whatever happened to "You may not agree with me, but I will defend to the death your right to disagree?"

On reflection, I must say I didn't find all gunners to be yahoos or racists. But the prevailing ethos is one of intolerance of diversity, disdain for liberalism, and a general insistence on laissez faire politics. Not inconsistent with the Reagan years, when I started organized club shooting. Most shooting is done with discretionary dollars, and for the blue collar guy those dollars often come hard. The notion of having to give up some of that "hard-earned" money to help others less fortunate is as loathsome to Joe Sixpack as it is to Charlie Annuity and Reginald Lockjaw, grandson of the widget inventor.
Nothing new there. What I perceive, and what I find most objectionable, is how thoroughly the NRA has brainwashed every strata of the shooting culture. Like a bad angel, it sits on its members' shoulders, whispering in their ears, filling their brains with a paranoiac fear that first Big Bubba and now Big Bro are gonna take their guns away.

Many guns are, to me, things of beauty -- mechanical marvels, artwork in wood and steel, precision instruments of astounding efficiency. I don't blame the gun, I blame the person wielding it and his or her motives. But to my mind, the NRA's insistence that "any bullet, any gun" be considered equal under the law is a grave error. As a society, we do not need semi-automatic "sporting firearms" designed for small arms combat, and armor-piercing bullets. And we don't need easily-concealable hand guns (remember "Saturday Night Specials?")

What we do need, for the good of the country as a united entity, is a frank dialogue between those who make and sell guns and those who seek to legally limit and control the type of gun available to the public. I believe this requirement can best be met with a National Gun Registration Act, one that would foster gun laws consistent from state-to-state. I've been stumped for a long time at the inconsistency of licensing: if you have to be licensed to drive a car, why shouldn't you be licensed to own a gun?

Obviously, the NRA would never agree to any of this. Their basic interest, in my opinion, is in protecting their bottom line -- not so much the interests of their membership but their industrial clients, the manufacturers and importers who are their bread and butter.

So this may all be blue sky. There are so many guns underground in New York City now that more gun laws probably would only push them deeper. But it has to start somewhere. And that somewhere, for me, is to start firing back at the NRA. Maybe this isn't news. But the subtle poisoning of the public's mind, through the insidious approval of threats of insurrection, should be brought to light. They're there, in the gun press, in the rallies hearing Sarah Palin's cries of "Don't retreat, reload!" And they are serious.

All the best,
Jim
 
Whether it was conscious or not, you cited a precept of the gun culture that I discovered early on, one that has confounded me the most -- "Agree with me or I will kill you." Whatever happened to "You may not agree with me, but I will defend to the death your right to disagree?"

Methinks Jim should dine at the High Road Cafe more often . . .
 
That looney represents a sizable portion of the NRA, which tends to back "reasonable gun laws" itself.

As if the 2nd Amendment was written after we won a deer hunting competition against the British...
 
Well, this guy has certainly mastered the art of verbosity. Amazing how some folks can ramble on seemingly forever, and quite articulately, yet say so little. Prerequisite for politicians, though, I suppose.

Idiot. Educated is not tantamount to intelligent.
 
What's interesting is that folks who see things differently often seize on the words and actions of a single individual--or perhaps a few individuals--and extrapolate that person's actions or viewpoints to apply to everyone on "the other side." Yet, I find it hard to believe that much of what he has written about has an actual factual basis.

I've never heard anyone who is pro-2A utter anything remotely close to "Agree with me or I will kill you." Absolutely never. I'd speculate that it's never happened to this guy's supposed shooting friend, and that it's a complete fabrication. Truly, I find that disturbing. There seems to be no compunction among the anti-rights crowd when it comes to creating and spreading lies. It's really sad.
 
The thing that irks me the most is how quick he is to come out when describing "right wingers" by mentioning that we are slightly racist yadda yadda...

But then later in the article all he does is throw around terms to describe a specific group of americans such things as "Joe Sixpack" and basically groups us all together that we are preparing for war, and we are crazy etc etc.

Pot calling the kettle black?
 
The thing that irks me the most is how quick he is to come out when describing "right wingers" by mentioning that we are slightly racist yadda yadda...

The thing that irks me the most is how half the sig lines and and thread titles of any political values equate me being far on the left side of the bench with being a sissy and wanting to abolish all guns and wanting to get a dictator in power.

How about we all police ourselves up a bit and then talk?
 
This is the perfect demonstration of the one and only fresh concept the anti-rights people have advanced in the last few years, and it's not even so much a fresh idea as it is an attempt to sprinkle sugar on the same old bull while telling us it's candy.

I don't have a name for this new meme* of theirs, but I can describe it pretty easily, and it goes something like this: "Gun owners, for the most part**, aren't bad people. Oh no. They've just been brainwashed/propagandized into submission by the evil NRA/gun makers and their marketing departments into believing that "progressives" are coming to take away their guns. As a result, these people go out and buy all of these evil assault rifles that serve no purpose."

In essence, they're trying to get gun owners on their side by claiming "you aren't really interested in owning such evil, nasty things. You've just been exploited by the big evil lobbying group/corporation."

So, they've basically switched their tactic from an outright attack on those who wish to retain their right to own firearms (including ugly plastic ones) to patronizing gun owners like we're a bunch of empty-headed infants incapable of actually thinking for ourselves.


Not that this is a surprise or anything. Such condescending stupidity is pretty much par for the course from our self-appointed intellectual betters.



* I'm open to suggestions for naming this meme of theirs. It would be convenient to be able to point it out every time they try to employ it.

**Except for all of the racist ones, and as we all know, a lot of gun owners are racist.
 
We have a name for guys with reasonable opinions on how they think guns should be regulated in the USA

FUDD
 
I don't blame the gun, I blame the person wielding it and his or her motives.

Except for handguns....oh...and anything semi-automatic....oh, and especially anything black or something with a barrel shroud...those suckers are always up to no good! :barf:

You have to love this silly tactic. They find someone who is "just like you" or they begin their sentence with "I think gun ownership is fine. I'm a hunter myself"...and then in the next sentence they are on top of their gun grabbing soapbox again. Do they really think we're that stupid? It's just the same old recycled crap I've seen a thousand times.
 
...naming this meme of theirs.

I don't know if you are aiming for a short name that rolls off the tongue easily, but my first thought is something that you've basically already said...

To the American gun owner:
"You're not evil, you're just stupid"
 
Politics aside, this guys argument is fundamentally flawed because it seems he objects to anyone who uses a firearm in a different manner to what he did. While HE might not need hi-cap mags, there are plenty of people who would like them, for a variety of reasons (comp shooting, like to load them all up before going to the range, etc). While HE might be content to sit and shoot from a bench or blind, lots of other people are not. And while HE disregards military style firearms as crappy inaccurate things, why is it a concern of his that other people are interested in making them more accurate - if nothing else, increasing your chances of hitting what you are shooting at is surely a good thing in terms of safety?

Sounds like in his perfect world, everyone should only engage in benchrest shooting and single shot hunting.
 
Last edited:
What I perceive, and what I find most objectionable, is how thoroughly the NRA has brainwashed every strata of the shooting culture. Like a bad angel, it sits on its members' shoulders, whispering in their ears, filling their brains with a paranoiac fear that first Big Bubba and now Big Bro are gonna take their guns away.

The lefties still fear the NRA.

But to my mind, the NRA's insistence that "any bullet, any gun" be considered equal under the law is a grave error. As a society, we do not need semi-automatic "sporting firearms" designed for small arms combat, and armor-piercing bullets. And we don't need easily-concealable hand guns (remember "Saturday Night Specials?")

this always seems to be their gagging point.

What we do need, for the good of the country as a united entity, is a frank dialogue between those who make and sell guns and those who seek to legally limit and control the type of gun available to the public.

the Libs idea of cooperation is that we capitulate.
 
IF Facism ever comes to America, it won't be repelled by internet posts or single shot shotguns. Someone here at THR has it as their sig: The arsenal of liiberty is in our bedroom closets.
 
the Libs idea of cooperation is that we capitulate.

The lefties still fear the NRA.

A good read to give you an idea of where the Left is coming from.

And it's because of this very exact reason that my wife and I don't go to NRA shows, we don't go to one of the better gunshops around and I thought it was for exactly this reason that I joined the highroad.

It seems I was mistaken.

I hate to say it folks, but being a "lefty," a socialist and having married a commie the absolute vast majority of the <expletive> coming from these mouths right now is the exact reason there can't be a rational discussion on this. I'm not saying the people who are deathly afraid of guns are any less radical, but don't pretend to be taking the highroad here, because you're not.

I for one am done clamming up when it comes to this hate filled propaganda. You people are wrong and don't know the first thing about this mythical "left." Stop your <expletive> partylines because as I quote ...

It's just the same old recycled crap I've seen a thousand times.
 
As a society, we do not need semi-automatic "sporting firearms" designed for small arms combat and armor-piercing bullets. And we don't need easily-concealable hand guns...
"Sporting" aside, but either way, that's totally wrong. 'We' (the people of the United States of America...) most certainly need small arms designed and intended specifically for combat. If there were no need for them, not a single one would ever sell. If there is no need for them, why ban them? We don't have a need for a five-wheeled bike, so you'll never see one for sale, and therefore there's no urgent reason to ban them.

The market dictates that we have found a need for the tools he so anxiously fears.
 
the AR-15 and AK-47 -- once disdained by the bench-resters and long-range competitors as blasters and alley sweepers.

:barf:

Blasters and alley sweepers? Seriously?? I hate reading stuff like this. It gets me all worked up and I end up wanting to argue back and forth on the huff's reply board. It doesn't do any good, as they are set in their anti way of thinking and I am dang sure set in my pro-gun stance. :banghead:
 
"In it were listed 30 semi-automatic combat-style rifles, ugly, clad with every conceivable contrivance and gimmick to make each appear more deadly than the next. Deadlier to whom and to what, I ask?"

I fear an old man with a bolt action and smile, much more than a mall ninja with a AR loaded with 2x its weight in tacticool accessories any day.

Gun laws should be made by people with a vested interest and knowledge......like gun owners.
 
Justin said:
* I'm open to suggestions for naming this meme of theirs.

They've just been brainwashed/propagandized into submission by the evil NRA/gun makers and their marketing departments into believing that "progressives" are coming to take away their guns.

Based on your definition, I would have to go with MAGOOS:
Marginalized by Atrocious Gun Ownership Organizations Syndrome
 
The Two Commandments

There are two commandments that form the basis of membership in every religion, political movement, or similar mass movement. They are all organized by a few who need an army to assist in their schemes to control other people.

The two commandments:

1. Give us what we demand.
2. ****

Everything else is negotiable.

The gun-owner in question follows these two, so to the movement American Left he's a "good" gun owner.

Why is this surprising?
 
No, the emphasis has switched to the semi-automatic platform, the AR-15 and AK-47 -- once disdained by the bench-resters and long-range competitors as blasters and alley sweepers.

Now more articles are being published dealing with how to make modifications to these military-style firearms, how to squeeze more and more accuracy and performance out of them. Just yesterday at the drugstore I found an annual Gun Directory in the magazine rack. In it were listed 30 semi-automatic combat-style rifles, ugly, clad with every conceivable contrivance and gimmick to make each appear more deadly than the next.

Actually, the rise in the popularity of Ar style rifles is due to:

A) The tendency for military style rifles to work their way into the civilian market. It happened with lever actions, and bolt actions, it was inevitable for the AR platform

B) American consumers love gadgets and accessories, and the civilian AR market plays to that fact. ARs, IMO, are Iphones of the gun world:D

I disagree with pretty much all of what the author asserts. That being said, I don't really care for many of the group characteristics of either the right or the left. I know and enjoy the company of individuals all across the political spectrum, but when birds of a feather get together and the groupthink starts, I'm out.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top