The Left’s ‘Reasonable Gun Owner’

[hso]

There isn't a "Left" issue here since I've also dealt with many an upstanding government worshiping "conservative" who would take those nasty guns away from "those" people.

Make no mistake, "left" antis and "right" antis are just the sides of the coin for authoritarian government fans that don't trust the masses with firearms.

Blindly parroting "Left" or "Right" is only falling prey to the divide and conquer tactic of the antis.

THR has many members that self identify themselves as "left" or "liberal" supporters of the individual 2A right. They have no problem with it and we should probably take a lesson from them if we don't want to be divided further and further into marginally effective marginal groups.

 

[Phatty]

My favorite part of the post was his smear on gun owners for being paranoid about the government taking away their guns, and then in the very next paragraph he calls for a ban on the majority of all guns.

 

[ArmedBear]

hso, to give the OP the benefit of the doubt, this came from the left. The wacko Internet left. It wasn't from the right, by any stretch of the imagination.

I agree with your point, though, in general.

One thing to look for, in particular, is this. Whichever "side" is out of power will suddenly wake up to the problems with authoritarianism. But when they're back in, they couldn't forget their "beliefs" more quickly if their brains were fried by a lightning strike.

I.e. the only problem that anyone in government seems to have with the government ruling with an iron fist is that it's not HIS fist.

That's why I think that, at the moment, getting as many Republicans into office in DC is a priority. The more resources that DC pols spend fighting each other, the less they can spend on screwing us.

 

[Manco]

Educated is not tantamount to intelligent.

And knowledge is not tantamount to truth.

 

[Still 2 Many Choices!?]

Simple truth... The guns are here, and they are not going anywhere!

The liberals on both sides need to grw up, and deal with it. Their liberal dream where the government builds a giant acme magnet(ie Wile E. Coyote-style), and every black semi-auto rifle, shotgun, and handgun(you know the ones with"the shoulder thing that goes up") are magically picked up and melted at once; isn't happening! Again, deal with it!!

Still 2 Many Choices!?

 

[huntsman]

I for one am done clamming up when it comes to this hate filled propaganda. You people are wrong and don't know the first thing about this mythical "left." Stop your <expletive> partylines because as I quote ...

No hate here you're free to express your political beliefs, the left may be mythical or not but it has its militant side and now they (you?) seem threatened when the other side starts to engage with the same methods.

I am curious since you mentioned it, what you feel to be rational discussion on gun control?

 

[Phatty]

One thing to look for, in particular, is this. Whichever "side" is out of power will suddenly wake up to the problems with authoritarianism. But when they're back in, they couldn't forget their "beliefs" more quickly if their brains were fried by a lightning strike.

I.e. the only problem that anyone in government seems to have with the government ruling with an iron fist is that it's not HIS fist.

That's why I think that, at the moment, getting as many Republicans into office in DC is a priority. The more resources that DC pols spend fighting each other, the less they can spend on screwing us.

Excellent post, ArmedBear. The worst legislation is usually passed when one party is in control of the house, senate and executive office.

 

[ArmedBear]

don't know the first thing about this mythical "left."

This is a silly statement.

If it's mythical in the sense that it doesn't exist, then how would anyone know about it?

Or do you mean that this "left" is an elaborate myth of the "right"? In that case, I'm sure that the people who made up the myth know all about it.

 

[ArmedBear]

Thank you.

The worst legislation is usually passed when one party is in control of the house, senate and executive office.

You know, just this morning I was contemplating a possibility: given what the Constitution requires for a bill to become law, maybe the Founders' INTENT was that most everything would be vetoed.

 

[Hatterasguy]

He makes a couple decent points though. The NRA and firearms culture did get themselves whipped up into a silly little frenzy when Obama got elected. The manufactures laughed there way to the bank, and now we all have to deal with a far more expensive sport.

Frankly this paranoia nonsense is getting old. If I hear one more person tell me to buy a gun now because Obama is going to talk them I'm going to puke. Also yes their certianly is a bit of racism involved. I mean come on I'm a huge WW2 history buff and have read most of the memoirs on the German side. But the last gun show I went to had a ton of Nazi stuff, probably 90% of the old military stuff on display was Nazi with a few KKK pins thrown in. I couldn't have bought a British or American patch or piece of gear if I wanted to, but I could buy SS death's head pins by the dozen.

His article falls apart when he goes after the EBR's, but thats typical.

 

[huntsman]

But the last gun show I went to had a ton of Nazi stuff, probably 90% of the old military stuff on display was Nazi with a few KKK pins thrown in. I couldn't have bought a British or American patch or piece of gear if I wanted to, but I could buy SS death's head pins by the dozen.

The willingness to embrace the Nazi culture frankly scares and infuriates me as an American citizen. Nothing justifies glorifying the Third Reich in this country.

 

[Phatty]

Frankly this paranoia nonsense is getting old. If I hear one more person tell me to buy a gun now because Obama is going to talk them I'm going to puke. Also yes their certianly is a bit of racism involved.

There usually is a morsel of truth buried in what the anti's are saying. You're right, I witnessed quite a bit of nonsensical paranoia relating to Obama and guns. And if you attend a gun show, you could probably find a racist. But my problem is the anti's use of a small segment of gun owners to paint the entire bunch. Another problem is the anti's use of character attacks against gun owners instead of making any kind of logical argument relating to gun control.

By the way, the irony of the whole Obama gun-grabber paranoia was that it was the paranoia itself that largely prevented Obama from enacting any kind of gun control legislation. People look back to Novemember 2008 and think, "Wow, those fears about Obama grabbing everyone's guns were totally overblown." But, if there hadn't been a huge movement expressing fears about Obama, there's a good chance that he would have tried to slip some gun-control legislation into his agenda. My only problem with the "paranoia" was the wildly false rumors that were being spread by people where the slightest effort at verifying the rumor would have revealed it was false.

 

[happygeek]

I wouldn't so much call that racism as just collecting historical stuff. There's a lot more fascination and interest in Hitler's Germany than in, say, the Soviet Union. I think it's due to any number of things that I won't dive into here, but suffice to say that reading lots of books about National Socialist Germany and collecting all sorts of things (milsurp rifles and uniforms included) dealing with them does not equal racism.

 

[General Geoff]

You know, just this morning I was contemplating a possibility: given what the Constitution requires for a bill to become law, maybe the Founders' INTENT was that most everything would be vetoed.

They call it Congress for a reason.

 

[happygeek]

The anti-gunners hate pistols of small caliber, pistols of large caliber, "assault weapons" because they're supposedly inaccurate, "sniper rifles" because they are accurate (no joke, http://www.vpc.org/graphics/snipcov2.pdf), and on and on.

This is one of the pages from the VPC I've found that pretty much states their envisioned endstate.

http://www.vpc.org/studies/cfstrat.htm

The availability of specific classes of firearms where the evidence clearly demonstrates that such weapons present an unreasonable risk of death and injury should be severely restricted.

Weapons regulated under the National Firearms Act--including silencers, "destructive devices" such as missiles used in grenade and rocket launchers and land mines--should be banned from future sale.

Weapons that fall within the definition of assault weapons should be banned in the same manner as were machine guns in 1986, and no new versions of assault weapons should be made.

Handguns should be banned from future sale except for military and law- enforcement personnel.

These are the primary components of the legislative model developed by the Violence Policy Center that would explicitly authorize the ATF to operate as a health and safety agency.

The bolding was done by me to draw attention to their wording. They don't say regulated, they don't say registered, they don't say you'll just have to jump through extra legal hoops to own them, they say banned.

They're in favor of bringing this to pass by having the BATFE regulate firearms in the name of public safety (similar to how carbon dioxide was declared to be a pollutant subject to EPA regulation).

By the way, the Huffington Post writer is an idiot. The VPC wants to ban his benchrest rifle too (http://www.vpc.org/graphics/snipcov2.pdf). They're not just after .50 BMG rifles, this article lays out why they hate any "sniper rifle" and how they also want to ban the .338 and maybe even the 7.62 NATO, regardless of whether it's a semi-auto or bolt action.

 

[BigO01]

Same old song sung by a different colored bird and always will be .

You know years ago when studying our Revolution and eventual Break from England the general consensus of more than a few Authors and historians was/is that our countries population pretty much broke up like a Pie sliced into 4 pieces .

1/4 Opposed English Rule and fought for freedom from it
1/4 Enjoyed it and opposed the Revolution
1/4 Hopped back and forth between the two positions depending on who seemed to be winning the War
And lastly 1/4 didn't seem to care one way or the other and just wanted to go about their daily business and be left alone .

Everyone knows that most of those living on our Nations coasts would seem to have been in the second camp and Love living under a Dictator because they thought that if they licked the Kings Boots they would rise to a position of prominence and power in their towns and perhaps farther .

 

[Justin]

He makes a couple decent points though. The NRA and firearms culture did get themselves whipped up into a silly little frenzy when Obama got elected. The manufactures laughed there way to the bank, and now we all have to deal with a far more expensive sport.

There's that meme again...

 

[Jim K]

Well, it was a self-described "liberal" organization that called for the "roundup and execution, without the nonsense of a trial" of gun owners and their families. And it was a liberal member of a Methodist Church gun ban organization who told me that "you gun nuts should be shot down in the streets until the gutters run with your blood."

I have heard some wacky things from the right, but I think the left has them beat for insane rhetoric. One interesting aspect of recent "debate" is that with the influx of Arab money into the left wing's coffers, the "liberals" are now ranting against Jews; they sound very like the KKK of old, denouncing the "money grubbers" and "the hook nosed thieves of Wall Street." Remember the leftists saying that no Jews died on 9/11 - a piece of disinformation straight from Al Qaeda?

Jim

 

[Hunt480]

I bet that guy has never been to South Dakota,but he needs to stay in New York so he can kiss Bloombergs ass some more...

 

[BCCL]

Never forget that to a progressive, "reasonable" always means "complete capitulation to their demands", just after the appearance of discussion.........

 

[Gritacular]

deleted

 

[nyrifleman]

I have heard some wacky things from the right, but I think the left has them beat for insane rhetoric.

No offense meant, but you are either mis-remembering or have been sheltered from some of the more insane things the right says. Both right and left have their wackos, and I'm afraid of either side ever coming to power.

On the left it's:
"People who drive SUVs should be interned in concentrations camps."
"If you're not a vegan, you should be morally re-educated." (= concentration camps, just look at the euphemisms used within the USSR's Gulag system)
(As you quote in your post) "All you gun nutters should be rounded up and shot."

But on the right it's:
"All n*ggers should be locked up in concentration camps." -- This last was cheerfully told me by a random man I happened to be sitting next to on a Transatlantic flight. He then went on to say how FEMA was building concentration camps for just that purpose.
"Homosexuals deserve to be burned alive."

I'm not sure how to classify random statements such as:
"Cops must die."

No, sir, both sides are plenty good at making wacky statements. And while we could split hairs about whether locking up SUV-drivers or black people is the worse thing, as far as I'm concerned they're both unacceptable, both crimes against humanity, both WRONG WRONG WRONG.

 

[ArmedBear]

By the way, the irony of the whole Obama gun-grabber paranoia was that it was the paranoia itself that largely prevented Obama from enacting any kind of gun control legislation.

Certainly the huge surge in gun and ammo purchases sent a strong message to anyone in politics who was paying attention.

Was the swine flu scare overblown? I think it wasn't. I saw a hell of a lot of people paying a lot of attention to washing and/or disinfecting their hands, when few people paid much attention before. The fact is, the primary means of transmission of common diseases like the cold and flu is by touching something with germs on it then touching one's face and eyes. Sometimes the recognition of a problem can help solve it. This hardly means that the problem never existed.

The same went for Y2K. There was so much attention paid to the problem that it never became a disaster. The average person may have seen it as a hoax, but those of us in the IT business certainly saw the effort and expense that went into averting the problem -- which happened only because it was widely feared.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

This one took a political turn and never veered back.