The 'Nuge opposes war in Iraq?

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I Love my Country, But I fear my Government....

Enough said, I do not think of anyone who does not support our under paid troops, ok well Hillary does come to mind, maybe Kennedy, but lets just say any real american would support our troops, now the Political creaqtures that send our troops off to die for senseless issues, I've had enough of them....
 
Seeker Two said,
Jeff Timm: Requiring someone to be a part of a government-sponsored organization in order to be "more of a citizen" and express opinions about national issues is morally reprehensible---whether that organization is the US Army, the Nazi Part, or the Communist Party.

Don't use my name and argue with something I did not say. I "require" noone to do anything.

Geoff
Who feels almost like a Republican, blamed for something he never did, or said.
 
VOD opined:
Well, perhaps since Mr Timm is so in favor of needing military service before your opinion counts,

I never said that.

Geoff Timm
Who is constantly amused by those who can only deal in stereotypes not reality.:rolleyes:
 
gryphon said:
This whole board has started going down hill ever since it stepped in to fill the void of TFL. If this kind of tripe is what I can keep expecting, then I might just have to give up this site.

But the beauty of the board is the ability to pick and chose your areas of interest. I'm stunned that someone has the time to read everything!

Geoff Timm
Who is easily amazed!:eek:
 
Jeff Timm:

It's not "Supporting the trooops, BUT..." It's a lack of committment to anything. Don't tell me you support the troops, show me your DD 214.

In my opinion if you weren't willing to put your life on the line for your country, you don't have an opinion. You haven't paid the price of citizenship.

Are you going to tell me that you didn't say THIS?


Or how about THIS.....


BryanP opined:
quote:
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By your logic my maternal grandfather who was repeatedly turned down for military service in WWII (he was 100% deaf in both ears from an early age) was "less of a citizen" than my paternal grandfather who carried a BAR in the Pacific theater.
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Exactly.


Jeff, who died & left you in charge of the Politboro?....:scrutiny:
 
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I do think citizenship should be harder for immigrants to get, at least as hard to get as a building permit and business license, and equally expensive.

Becoming a naturalized citizen is both more difficult and more expensive than getting a business license.

My wife is not yet a citizen, but we have already completed stacks of paperwork, paid several hundred dollars, and been interviewed by the INS. Additional paperwork, several hundred more dollars, and testing will be required to complete the process. For immigrants who can’t navigate this arcane process on their own, thousands more would be spent on immigration lawyers.

By contrast, my business license required only a couple relatively simple forms and less than $100.

Back to the point of this thread, it is possible to support our troops while opposing the unjust cause their lives are being wasted on.

~G. Fink
 
To bring this back to the original topic, Nugent's music has always given me a headache. No amount of politics in common will ever make his work enjoyable to me.

p.s. I'm always amused by those who think having served in the military makes them somehow uniquely qualified to run the show. When I think of the idiots and the criminals (given the jail vs. army choice by a judge) with whom I served, this becomes doubly amusing. Thanks for serving, but it hardly makes you special.
 
I find it kindof amusing how people who serve in the standing army, an orginisation that the founding fathers were against, somehow is more qualified to be a citizen. Why should I go die in (insert third world hell hole here) because some politician wants the look at me I care vote. That is the reason I did not join the AF. The INSTANT America is threatened, I will be on the front line with the militia, but I will not travel to Somalia to help people who don't want us there in the first place.

For the record, I believe that we should be in Iraq, also, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and North Korea. Preferably with nukes.

Ed
 
given the jail vs. army choice by a judge
Once again, that's been different for some years.
An Army recruiter who accepts that arrangement will have an officer reading him HIS rights.

Larry
 
Let me start by saying...

I like Ted primarily because he doesn't waiver from his ideologies. As to him being in support of the war or not is, as has been stated, irrelevant BUT not because he's a musician. Rather it's irrelavence is derived from the fact that support or not the war has and is taking place and will be carried out to its conclusion and that renders any opposition irrelavent as well.

Keep in mind everyone is intitled to an opinion regardless of military involvement or not but if that is Mr. Timm's opinion then so beit, he is intitled to it. If his opinion makes some angry, understand that your opinion makes him as well as some others angry. That's life, deal with it.

As to the Iraq war? For or against, it was necessary from less of a political and more of a common sense standpoint. I always like hearing people say it is about oil and or oil intrests. If that were true then why didn't we just walk into Kuwait, declare victory and go home? We're already there so why add to the costs of military action and lives to get what we could already have without the costs?

The thing that I find intresting and so often over looked by so many is that in liberating Iraq and paying for it's rebuilding this is one time where we could actually recoup some if not more than all of the expense. It had already been agreed upon that our expenditures in liberating this country would be repaid on a yearly basis to the US through Iraq's (not the US's) sale of Iraqi oil. So are we there for the oil? That is truly the most assinine question and statement I've heard in a long long time. If we truly wanted oil and that was this administrations sole purpose for war it would have been easier to say "Screw all the environmentalist wacko's!" and drill off the Gulf Coast. We're sitting on what has been determined to be one of the largest oil fields on the planet but because of environmental policy we won't go get it. Anwar is another. Presently one has to be careful about how much oil one has control over and access to primarily because of what it would do to the market if it became too readily available. Too much ownership or production and you would crash that market right into the ground, not to mention if you crash our market all other oil markets crash as well and that would be a very bad thing indeed.

Anyway to each his own. Think what you like, say what you will but realize that when it's all said and done it's just your opinion over another based on personal belief and opinions are like a**holes; everybody's got one.

Have fun folks,

DRC
I love a good debate, but this ain't it.

PS To whom it may concern; Communists are neither hippies nor peace loving, they are totalitarian.
 
bountyhunter said all sorts of interesting things which boil down to:

I want my husband back safe and sound!

Actually, it is my wife who was activated for 18 months in desert Storm, the last farce where we should have solved this problem. Chauvinist much? You don't realize how many women are active right now.

I want everyone in perfect agreement before we do anything!

BULLCRAP. I never said anything like that. I said you don't go to war unless there is a threat against US interests that justifies it and there was none here.


I want Bush to be the God-King-on-Earth with perfect foreknowledge of everything!

BIGGER LOAD OF BULLCRAP. I want Bush to admit he had no viable intel on the WMD's he claimed made it so urgent to go to war. I also want him to admit he has been protecting the saudis up to and including having 28 pages of a terrorism report censored which implicated them in financing the 9/11 murders. If this comes out, he is going to be impeached.

I want no one to die!

People die in war, I don't want anybody to die for stupid reasons and this war has nothing but stupid reasons. Talk about barking up the wrong tree: the Saudis have been funding Al Qaeda since 1992 and we didn't even attack the right country. Want to read it for yourself? TIME magazine, sept 15 issue lays it out. They continue to fund them which means they are supporting the terrorists in Iraq killing our troops RIGHT NOW. Got the picture yet?

But Bush has to pretend they are our allies because he doesn't want them to turn off the oil spigot. There will be hell to pay when the sheeple get an awareness of what is actually going on and the BS they were fed to justify this war.
 
Hello Bountyhunter.

"I also want him to admit he has been protecting the saudis up to and including having 28 pages of a terrorism report censored which implicated them in financing the 9/11 murders."

Could you please site your source for this? I'm intrested in reading the information.

"the Saudis have been funding Al Qaeda since 1992 and we didn't even attack the right country. Want to read it for yourself? TIME magazine, sept 15 issue lays it out. They continue to fund them which means they are supporting the terrorists in Iraq killing our troops RIGHT NOW."

Please forgive me but...you don't say? Why would anyone need to read a Time magazine article to see any of this laid out? Bin Laden was a Saudi, nine of the hijackers were Saudi's it's been reported all over the airways and printed media that this has been going on since and before 9/11. The House of Saud has been doing this for ages because it has little defense other than terror (it works more like an organized crime ring than a countries ruling faction) BUT attacking Saudi Arabi would be like beating or shooting an old three legged dog because it keeps giving birth to mongrel puppies that attack people. The effect would be nil. The US could sanction Saudi Arabia into extinction if we felt it necessary.

The House of Saud is weak and in disarray and the only control they can keep is through strong arm ideologies which are backfiring on them anyway. Ever heard the saying "Give a man enough rope and he'll hang himself with it."? Well that "man" is Saudi Arabia. It's not unlike the Queen of England, the only purpose she serves is for tradition but has no real control any longer.

Just some things to think about,

Take care,

DRC
 
c'mon bountyhunter.....

"People die in war, I don't want anybody to die for stupid reasons and this war has nothing but stupid reasons. Talk about barking up the wrong tree: the Saudis have been funding Al Qaeda since 1992 and we didn't even attack the right country. Want to read it for yourself? TIME magazine,"
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Surely you do not believe anything you read in "Time" magazine, do you?


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"sept 15 issue lays it out. They continue to fund them which means they are supporting the terrorists in Iraq killing our troops RIGHT NOW. Got the picture yet?"
************************************************************

Yup! Picture good! terrorists fighting somewhere besides NYC & D.C.....

And they are going to be soundly defeated, if the blissninnies in the U.S. don't derail the necessary military action.

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"But Bush has to pretend they are our allies because he doesn't want them to turn off the oil spigot. There will be hell to pay when the sheeple get an awareness of what is actually going on and the BS they were fed to justify this war."
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I'd say that the Saudis are pretty much watching the whole show in horror,
the fundamentalists because they know their cause is in grave danger, and the pro-western Royals because they realize that all that Iraqi oil will be bad for business:D

I think most Americans will accept that the Iraq war is a necessary part of the strategy against Islamic fundamentalist terror. It's working well so far.
 
Anti war? I think not. Pro toops? Heck yes!

America Rocks -- TED NUGENT
The Wall Street Journal ^ | Wednesday, November 27, 2002 | TED NUGENT


JACKSON, Mich. -- As the war on terrorism continues and as war with Iraq appears to loom ominously in the not so distant future, Americans must be equally vigilant to remain thankful that we live in the greatest country the world has ever known.

Thanksgiving is a very important holiday and celebration in the Nugent household. We don't believe that Thanksgiving, as some retailers would try to lead us to believe, is a mere bump in the road between Halloween and Christmas, but a very special holiday that naturally comes during the hunting season as we finish up the natural season of harvest. It is fitting that we celebrate all of the blessings that God has bestowed upon our family and America.

Thanksgiving is not an anachronism whose time is past. It is much more than a holiday to celebrate a meal shared between the Pilgrims and Native Americans. It is a time to reflect and be thankful for what we have -- not for what we cherish, desire or envy. Rich or poor, every American has many things to be thankful for, not the least of which is that we live in a country where our freedom and individual dedication and hard work define the limits to your success, whatever your aspirations, dreams and goals may be. The American Dream is still yours for the making. Be very thankful for that. More importantly, be smart enough to seize it.

With our men and women in the military in harms way defending freedom, we should be thankful that many of our young people have answered the call of patriotism and love of country to serve in our armed forces and defend our way of life. Without their numerous personal sacrifices and the sacrifices of generations of veterans who have gone before them, there would be little in America to be thankful for. Say a prayer this Thanksgiving for our brave warriors who are separated from their loved ones by thousands of miles.
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Classic Rock Revisited has posted a lengthy and rather entertaining interview with Ted Nugent in which the outspoken rocker discusses a number of topics, including his view on "The Osbournes", the recent DIXIE CHICKS controversy, and the war with Iraq.
The following are some of the highlights of that conversation:

On "The Osbournes":
Ted: God bless Ozzy and Sharon. God bless their family. I hope they can find happiness. What I see is not happiness it is superficial happiness. You don't encourage and much less allow your children to swear violently at people and be totally undisciplined.
Look at how fat his kids are. When you have kids that fat then they are just eating bad food which is a manifestation of a certain cultural depravation where they can't even monitor there own health habits.
Ozzy, God bless him, is super talented. He is a great man. He is a man of heart and soul and goodwill. He is a very funny man but he is a perfect poster child of why I have never touched drugs, alcohol, tobacco or fast food. You get stupid, fat, slow and drooling. He is an absolute shell of a man. He doesn't have any capacities physically or mentally. It is just pathetic that someone would find entertainment or recreational joy from watching a wounded man shuffle about and mumble. It's embarrassing.

On "The Dixie Chicks":
Ted: Let me tell you what has happened with THE DIXIE CHICKS... First of all, I salute them. They are not only amazingly talented, they have a wonderful work ethic and they make wonderful music. Plus, they are fine-??? women! I also salute them for standing up for what they believe in. Unfortunately, most of your celebrities are insulated. They literally create a wall of comfort around them.
This morning Uncle Ted got up with my sons Toby and Rocco.... We shoveled the dog kennels. I shoveled the crap out of the horse stalls. We do this everyday. We carry hay and straw and bring water and feed to our livestock and then we go out and cut wood. We plant trees this time of year. In other words, I am a hands-on guy. I am a rugged individual. I don't have 'yes' men around me. I don't have people catering to me. I don't have people servicing me. I stand up for myself and I do my own jobs. I change my own oil and I kill my own food. I gut it, I butcher it and I cook it. I take care of my own life.
THE DIXIE CHICKS are insulated. They are prima donnas. They wouldn't know the truth if it smacked them right between the eyes. So I would like to offer them the truth: If you do not kill evil under the terms of righteous, freedom-loving people like Americans then we will have to face evil in America on the evil's terms. That is unacceptable. So DIXIE CHICKS, I just recommend you shut up and sing and let the warriors take care of your freedom. You love to deny the truth and live in an insulated world of fantasy and then criticize the very system by which you can live free and brave. Suck me!

On the war with Iraq:
Ted: We have a bunch of weenies out there. We have a bunch of insulated, spineless cowards who think war is no good. Maybe someone should explain to them that instead of 50 million Jews dying in 1945 only 6 million Jews died. Why? Because war stopped the slaughter of innocence. War is good when good survives and evil is crushed. If you don't crush evil then evil will get you.
If you don't stand up for good then that is irresponsible and brain dead. It's morally and intellectually bankrupt. We the people need to be more involved. That is what the Nugent family has always stood up for. I have a great piece coming out in the Wall Street Journal next week about war. I am an activist. I am a 'we the people' hands on celebrate because the American Dream is about being the best that you can be. If you really put your heart and soul into being the best that you can be then your radar and your energy will go up and you will identify good and you will identify bad. You know that you will have to optimize the good to eliminate the bad and ugly. The way that you eliminate bad and ugly is either through activism and policy making that never tolerates evil - instead of the liberal politically correct policy of accepting evil and accepting other points of views that destroy lives. We the thoughtful, productive people of American have got to take our freedom back. The 'we the people' experiment in self-government should come from people who get up early and bust their ??? to be productive. We need to tell the pimps and whores and welfare brats and the drug abusers and drug sellers and drug growers... Tell these bloodsucking pigs to either get a job or get the hell out of our way because we are about fed up with giving them a handout for being rotten and bloodsucking. If we had that policy all along then these sons of bitches on 9/11 would have had their guts handed to them because we would have profiled them and responded to the intelligence that they were American hating monsters. We need policy that says if you hate America then you have 24 hours to get out or we will kill you. Case closed.
Read the whole interview Here
 
Bountyhunter said:

Actually, it is my wife who was activated for 18 months in desert Storm, the last farce where we should have solved this problem.

My apologies, I should have used a neutral. From what you said, I thought your spouse was there now.

And..
I said you don't go to war unless there is a threat against US interests that justifies it and there was none here.

In your opinion. Interpretation of US interests is a popular topic, on which there is little agreement. The fact is, we are there, we must win, in the interest of the USofA.

And..
I don't want anybody to die for stupid reasons and this war has nothing but stupid reasons. Talk about barking up the wrong tree: the Saudis have been funding Al Qaeda since 1992 and we didn't even attack the right country. Want to read it for yourself?

You say "Saudis" as if they were a one man dictatorship. I suspect a country like Iraq, with a single small family ruling, with hundreds of millions of dollars just laying around in cash, was a greater threat than the Saudi's who are facing more problems than many would believe.

And finally..
There will be hell to pay when the sheeple get an awareness of what is actually going on and the BS they were fed to justify this war.

If you know "what is actually going on.." why don't the rest of us?

Geoff
Who suspects a certain level of paranoia...
 
Gordon Fink posted:
By contrast, my business license required only a couple relatively simple forms and less than $100.

No insurance? No Place of Business? No tax number and establishing unemployment insurance accounts? Wow!

What about the price of a building permit?

What state was that again?

And in addition:
Back to the point of this thread, it is possible to support our troops while opposing the unjust cause their lives are being wasted on.

You consider it an "unjust cause" the US should just ignore terrorism and pretend none of our citizens have died?

Geoff
Who cannot comprehend calling the cause unjust.
 
seeker_two posted:

quote:
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Jeff, who died & left you in charge of the Politboro?
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After quoting me twice. This statement makes no sense at all.

Read up on the history & government of the Soviet Union (you DO remember them, don't you?...:scrutiny: ). That should answer you questions.

The quotes were in response to your previous question to me.

Anything else I need to explain out, or have you caught up to the rest of us now?...
 
seeker_two posted:
The quotes were in response to your previous question to me. Anything else I need to explain out, or have you caught up to the rest of us now?...

Since you seem to be flying off on a wild tangent, I have no desire to follow.

Geoff
Who thinks this person is strange indeed.
:confused:
 
Since you seem to be flying off on a wild tangent, I have no desire to follow.

My bad. Guess I shouldn't have wandered off into LOGIC and REASON to refute your arguement that a person should be a part of a government-sponsored organization in order to express an opinion on a political matter or to be more of a "citizen" than one who can't or won't join that aforementioned government-sponsored organization.

Maybe this will be easier to understand....

:rolleyes:
 
seeker_two posted:
My bad. Guess I shouldn't have wandered off into LOGIC and REASON to refute your arguement that a person should be a part of a government-sponsored organization in order to express an opinion on a political matter or to be more of a "citizen" than one who can't or won't join that aforementioned government-sponsored organization.

Despite quoting me you completely ignore what I said.

I have seen nothing resembling LOGIC or REASON in your posts.

Geoff
Who will avoid confusing the weak minded.
 
Major thread veer, knee-biting, and a great deal of scrambling as far off the High Road as the laws of physics allow.

Lights out.

LawDog
 
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