The OutlawKid

[Jackrabbit1957]

Yes, you need to cut a slot in the hammer face to clear a cap post. I have been playing around with taking any sharp edges off the hammer face. So far it's been helping reduce cap sucking when the hammer is cocked. Best fix to date has been to fill the hammer face with JB weld, other than the cap post which is probably the best fix.

 

[45 Dragoon]

I think the "best" answer for dealing with cap hulls/frags is the cap post in conjunction with the action shield. An added feature with that setup is a clean/protected action that doesn't need cleaning if packed with Mobil1. Hard parts shouldn't get past the post but if they do, the shield will keep it out of the action and give you the opportunity to "dump" the debris.
As explained in another thread, the cap post by itself allows the cap gun to "get away" with a lightened main spring (since it doesn't need to "trap" the spent hull) which allows the cap shooter an "almost" cartridge gun setup along with the same reliability of the cartridge revolver.
With an action that will allow a "brisk" or "spirited" cycling (tuned) as the norm, it's as close to a cartridge gun equal for the cap gun.

Mike

 

[armoredman]

Every post here makes me very anxious to try this.

 

[woodnbow]

I hope he can do the wonders you guys talk about to mine - it gets delivered today...hope he's there...

You’ll be fine. He’s there but seems to have a lot on his plate at the time. It’s shocking how quickly he turns work and gets it back out the door. He’s aces in my book...

 

[armoredman]

Oh, nothing against HIM, it's on me for not getting in touch with him prior to shipping, and if he managed to finally get a family vacation away from the power outages and cold snaps, hey, that's on me, not him in any way. I have faith in the guy, based on what he's said and the testimonials around here. It's the package delivery service I have no faith in...

 

[armoredman]

He is alive and well.

 

[Russell13]

Here’s mine. Being sported on the coolest cap and ball revolver of the civil war. The legendary J.H. Dance and Brothers chambered in the hard hitting .44 caliber

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Hey everyone i am alive and well! Sorry i havent been posting much...i am in texas and if any of you been watching the news texas was hit with a major winter storm and damaged a lot of the power grid and other utilities...along with dealing with that i have been dealing with some other things BUT it wont affect me from helping folks who send me direct messages or working on guns i have been sent. For now all the dust has settled and things are somewhat back to normal on my end. Thanks for the kind words posted above, truly means a whole lot to me!

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Oh, nothing against HIM, it's on me for not getting in touch with him prior to shipping, and if he managed to finally get a family vacation away from the power outages and cold snaps, hey, that's on me, not him in any way. I have faith in the guy, based on what he's said and the testimonials around here. It's the package delivery service I have no faith in...

Thank you for putting your faith in me! I will work your gun as if it were my own. It has been received and it is being kept safe and will be worked on ASAP.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

You’ll be fine. He’s there but seems to have a lot on his plate at the time. It’s shocking how quickly he turns work and gets it back out the door. He’s aces in my book...

Thank you Mr.woodnbow! Means a lot that you think of me in such regards! You too are aces!

 

[Bibbyman]

I've worked off and on the last couple of days installing cap rakes on my Pietta 1860s. They look great, if I say so myself. I got some time between storms to go out and test them. So far just 18 shots per gun. And so far nothing is getting back into the action.

But two new things have cropped up. One, about half the spent caps are welding themselves to the nipples and take considerable effort with nettle nose pliers to get them off. Two, most all the back side of the cap is blown out.

I did raise the height of the safety notch by maybe .020 and widened it just a little. I made the rake post as high as the nipple. Maybe I should have made the post shorter and not deepened the safety notch (just relieved it behind the hammer face) ?

 

[electricfactory]

How are things in Texas now Outlaw ? I'm watching the news and it seems Texas is being walloped by several weather systems. Sincerely hope you and family are well, I plan on sending you a Pietta 1860 Avenging Angel when you get back up to speed.
God Bless.

Hey everyone i am alive and well! Sorry i havent been posting much...i am in texas and if any of you been watching the news texas was hit with a major winter storm and damaged a lot of the power grid and other utilities...along with dealing with that i have been dealing with some other things BUT it wont affect me from helping folks who send me direct messages or working on guns i have been sent. For now all the dust has settled and things are somewhat back to normal on my end. Thanks for the kind words posted above, truly means a whole lot to me!

 

[45 Dragoon]

Yep, well the post height for me is equal to the top of the end of the cone. I don't add to the height or width of the safety notch. Doing that deminishes the area needed for ignition.

Mike

 

[Bibbyman]

Yep, well the post height for me is equal to the top of the end of the cone. I don't add to the height or width of the safety notch. Doing that deminishes the area needed for ignition.

Mike

I did try to get it to the top of the cone. But looks like I made the slot too high. But these RWS caps were already making cutouts into the safety slots but usually hanging like hanging chads. (remember hanging chads?)

I may have to visit my neighbor with the TIG welder.

Thanks!

P.S. I remembered I have an extra hammer in my spare parts box. I can start over with one and see how that works out. I'll stay away from the slot profile on the face and only relieve the area behind.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

How are things in Texas now Outlaw ? I'm watching the news and it seems Texas is being walloped by several weather systems. Sincerely hope you and family are well, I plan on sending you a Pietta 1860 Avenging Angel when you get back up to speed.
God Bless.

Yeah we just keep getting beat by weather here in texas..but it was mainly the power outtages where most of the state was out for about a week and homes were destroyed because pipes arent winterised as we dont get cold weather here. Watching the news you can see peoples homes destroyed by busted water pipes...their ceilings and walls falling apart. It got pretty bad for a lot of families. Me and the family are doing ok. I would be glad to work your avenging angel sir...i got your direct message and will respond to it asap

 

[TheOutlawKid]

I've worked off and on the last couple of days installing cap rakes on my Pietta 1860s. They look great, if I say so myself. I got some time between storms to go out and test them. So far just 18 shots per gun. And so far nothing is getting back into the action.

But two new things have cropped up. One, about half the spent caps are welding themselves to the nipples and take considerable effort with nettle nose pliers to get them off. Two, most all the back side of the cap is blown out.

I did raise the height of the safety notch by maybe .020 and widened it just a little. I made the rake post as high as the nipple. Maybe I should have made the post shorter and not deepened the safety notch (just relieved it behind the hammer face) ?

When it comes to cap posts mr. Mike/Dragoon 45 is giving good advice about post size. I do the same as him..I always make my posts the height of the nipple and thin enough to fit inside the width of the hammer safety notch slot (the notch is deepened to allow the cap post to fit) Although i have a couple personal guns that have cap posts a little shorter than nipple height...only a little half way past nipple height..and they still work fine. But best performance and to give peace of mind is to make them as tall as the cone height. You dont want them too thick either as it will cause you to enlarge the hammer safety notch slot...and doing so takes away from the hammer face surface area hitting the cap and can cause failure to fires. What kind of caps are you using? Also what kind of nipples? The nipples getting stuck could be due to one or both of these issues...some attention may be needed on the cones. I only use remington caps and slixshot or uncle mikes nipples...so i dont experience the issues you are having.

 

[Bibbyman]

What kind of caps are you using? Also what kind of nipples?

RWS caps. Stock Pietta nipples.

These caps didn't stick on the nipples before I added the posts. They exploded and generally flattened out.

I see that the hammer face is pretty much coming down at the time it strikes the cap. So it falls over the rake post more then pushing past it. I'll dig up my extra hammer and start over on one and report back in a day or two.

As they say in mule traiding, "Education costs".

Photos added.



New hammer on right.



Relationship of rake post and nipple.



New hammer installed. The face of hammer comes foreword to ratchet shield ring face. I took off maybe .010 of front of post. The hammer safety notch opening is not altered.

I'll give this a try when weather permits.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Great job on making posts! Now my posts arent as close to the hammer...i make my posts inline with the depth of the curvature of the recoil sheild. Maybe the posts are too close to the nipple causing the cap to be sandwiched tightly upon explosion?

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

My suggestion is to break any sharp angle on the hammer face, seems like sharp corners tend to cause problems. I believe that's what causes cap sucking in the first place. You might also look at the nipples close and again break any sharp angles. Next silly question, are you using #10 or number 11 caps? I have found a magic number on the diameter for # 11 caps to be .165 to .170 on the cone. They slide on but don't back off easily, yet don't weld themselves to the nipple after being fired. Another solution is to drill a tiny hole in the side of the cone about 1/16th from the end and make it a hot shot nipple, they won't stick then.

 

[armoredman]

"Hot shot" nipple?

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Yeah...thinking he means Slixshot nipple...but there is an older nipple design called "hotshot" i believe. Slixshot nipples have holes on the sides of the cone to allow for gas escape.

 

[ThomasT]

I have drilled a few nipples for my rifles to make "Hot Shot" style nipples before. The reason given long ago for the holes was to relieve back pressure so the flame had an easier time going into the powder chamber. Does it work? I don't know but it sounded good. On a revolver it make help keep caps from sticking on the nipples. Maybe.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Some thoughts....might it help to polish the cone? Or do most nipples have a decent surface on them? Looking at some spares laying around just now, they don't look "bad", but seems like a high polish might help. Or not. The stainless nipples I put on my Remington Navy/Army Frame (!!!!) seem to have a nice surface on them.

I think the old hot-shots had holes in the side. I have such a nipple on a TC rifle I have, and it has a drilled through hole, both sides of the cone. I always thought the function was to relieve some of the back-pressure, so it wasn't all coming straight back out the nipple/cone. Possibly to reduce hammer blow back. I'm not sure how bleeding off flash or flame would enhance ignition.

Now on a revolver, and convince me if I'm wrong, (or that I'm wrong) my observation, just from this 1862, is that the blow-back pressure, from both the cap and the ignition of the charge, is flinging the hammer back, and the spent cap at the same time, and the cap drops down between hammer and frame. Hammer lands back on the nipple. Everything looks normal, until you carefully and slowly pull back the hammer, and there's the cap between hammer and frame. The cap rake I believe, or seems to me, stops the cap from going any further than the post...but not the hammer. And it seems to me that the holes in a Slixshot cone bleed off a lot of that pressure, directing off to the sides, instead of directly at the face of the hammer, reducing hammer blow back. My "impression" is that 90% of the cap-jamming on my 1862 is from hammer blow back, and not the cap sticking to the hammer.

ThomasT, did you have any difficulty drilling such a small hole in a cone? I've been meaning to try it, but am wondering if those cones are not pretty hard. ?

 

[Bibbyman]

Some thoughts....might it help to polish the cone?

The picture was taken after shooting 3 cylinders full and not yet cleaned. But I generally don't put too much work into cleaning the nipples. While I have them out, I put them in my hand, add a drop of dish soap and run hot tap water over them while rolling them around. Then dry in rag.

Buf they do look kind of crusty. May be my next step. I can chuck them in my Harbor Freight mini-lathe and clean them up.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Yep I realized them was dirty nipples. But my thought was chucking them in the drill press, and giving them a very high polish. I think I'll do that, as I can't imagine it hurting anything. But who knows!!