The Pardner Pump Thread

[Big Bill]

I have both an 870 and an NEF.
Where does that put me in your book, Big Bill?

Mike - I'm not here to judge you. I don't categorize people.

I find it almost humorous that you are likely typing on a keyboard "made in China".

Well, since I was a Dell technician for some time, all my computers are Dell portables.

Typing into a computer where most of the components are probably "made in China".
And quite likely sitting on an office chair also "made in China".
Walk around your house and look at where everything was made.

I have looked around and try hard not to purchase anything "made in China". But, that's my choice. I try hard to patronise my LOCAL gunshop instead of buying at Walmart. I also buy my computers from Dell instead of going to COSTCO, etc. And, most of my furniture is custom made by local craftsmen or made in America. Of course, not everything is American made, but I do try.

Let him who has no sin cast the first stone.

I'm not accusing anyone of commiting a sin and I am not casting stones. I'm just stating the obvious: that some damned communist country is stealing our technology and engineering by making knock-offs of American products; and that some Americans, who can otherwise afford it, just sit back and without thinking support these thieves, because they can save a few dollars.

BTW - I do understand that for many buying a gun is dificult; and, they don't have much in the way of resources. So the ability for them to get a solid gun like a pardner or maverick, for a low price, is a blessing. I'd rather see them armed with a Chinese shotgun than no shotgun at all. And, both guns are obviously good choices.

 

[jlv08]

First of all, the OP mentioned that this thread was devoted to folks who like

their PP's and the focus was how folks liked their guns. I think it is tasteless

to hijack a thread to berate the gun or the person who buys what ever gun

from what ever source. Remington owns H&R and has done nothing to

discontinue these fine shotguns from coming into the USA.

I have owned both shotguns and The 12 Ga. PP I had was a way overbuilt

quality piece that stomped the Remington Express in the ground quality wise

and I make no apologies for that observation. I've owned alot of shotguns

and have repaired my share of them an the PP gives a good account of itself.

If you don't like the gun, get over it. I can assure you that the Chicom's , for those

who fear the Chinese, want no fight with the USA as there are weapons

poised to rain destruction on their country that is unimagineable in power and

scope. I know this because I build these systems.

I haven't visited here in a while due to the ignorance displayed at folks who

merely want to share their joy about their gun of choice.

I like my Pardners and will tell anyone that they are an excellent value for the

money and have just enough differences to make a good gun in their own

right.

To end ,thanks to those who reinforced my conviction to not visit here in a while.

Hopefully I can return to enjoy the forums as I once did, It's just too difficult to hold court at the

level of having my head in the sand.

 

[Big Bill]

I have owned both shotguns and The 12 Ga. PP I had was a way overbuilt

quality piece that stomped the Remington Express in the ground quality wise

and I make no apologies for that observation.

And, it's too damn bad that one unapologetic person can't enjoy their purchase without deprecading someone else's shotgun purchase.

I get sick of people like you telling me that my remington 870s are pieces of crap. A person can only take so much bull!

 

[Mike U.]

Quote:
I have both an 870 and an NEF.
Where does that put me in your book, Big Bill?
Mike - I'm not here to judge you. I don't categorize people.
Quote:
I find it almost humorous that you are likely typing on a keyboard "made in China".
Well, since I was a Dell technician for some time, all my computers are Dell portables.
Quote:
Typing into a computer where most of the components are probably "made in China".
And quite likely sitting on an office chair also "made in China".
Walk around your house and look at where everything was made.
I have looked around and try hard not to purchase anything "made in China". But, that's my choice. I try hard to patronise my LOCAL gunshop instead of buying at Walmart. I also buy my computers from Dell instead of going to COSTCO, etc. And, most of my furniture is custom made by local craftsmen or made in America. Of course, not everything is American made, but I do try.
Quote:
Let him who has no sin cast the first stone.
I'm not accusing anyone of commiting a sin and I am not casting stones. I'm just stating the obvious: that some damned communist country is stealing our technology and engineering by making knock-offs of American products; and that some Americans, who can otherwise afford it, just sit back and without thinking support these thieves, because they can save a few dollars.

BTW - I do understand that for many buying a gun is dificult; and, they don't have much in the way of resources. So the ability for them to get a solid gun like a pardner or maverick, for a low price, is a blessing. I'd rather see them armed with a Chinese shotgun than no shotgun at all. And, both guns are obviously good choices.

What you've written in post #51 is all well and good.
I agree with your overall sentiments.
However, the whole point of my post was not to point out sin, but rather, hypocrisy.
I simply saw this as a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[contender]

pardner pumps made in china...........

maverick and mossberg gun parts and barrels made in mexico.....and assembled here with the claim "made in USA".........

i don't need a morality lesson on guns and politics......that's just another form of selective gun control while waving the Flag..........

Interesting thread.........i've held off on the pardner pump for a while and keep researching the gun. I like what i hear about the quality.

appreciate all the on-topic responses as it is helpful.......

 

[jlv08]

The Remington Express shotguns have been lacking in quality as of late and Remington knows this.

Too many folks have been burned on their purchases and I personally have had to fix some of these guns for friends.

Sometime to no avail!

Brand loyalty in alright but not to the point where you, BILL, have to show so much discord with others by hijacking a thread to bullying people about their choice of firearm.

Nothing was stolen in the design of the Pardner and if so, their would be lawsuits out the ying yang regarding their manufacture.

I have had many Remington products over the years and hold them in high regard, but the guns coming out of Big Green lately have been wanting.

It is my right to call , from my hard earned observation, what I see as quality deficiencies in any product when one asks regarding a future purchase.

I was not attacking YOU,BILL, or your choice guns, I was stating and OBSERVATION about a quality product against what used to be the benchmark of products,

You have to take it upon yourself to jump in a thread and muck it up with your opinion and become political.

You do the firearms community no service with your vitriol and I choose not to join your hate club regarding ones choice of shotgun they desire to buy.

If you need to vent, YELL at REMINGTON!


They are bringing in Pardner Pumps and selling them as fast as they hit the stores.

I hope you are satisfied now, BILL, as you probably are gloating in your smug complacency with your effort to rob folks of their joy in sharing about a gun of choice.

 

[Big Bill]

Brand loyalty in alright but not to the point where you, BILL, have to show so much discord with others by hijacking a thread to bullying people about their choice of firearm.

I'm sorry if this is in fact what happened. I was reacting to all the negative comments about the Remigton that IMHO were unwarranted. Why can't a favorite gun thread like this be just that without sniping at another gun? Do some of your people who posted in this thread feel you have to build up your particulat choice of guns by tearing down someone elses?

I hope you are satisfied now, BILL, as you probably are gloating in your smug complacency with your effort to rob folks of their joy in sharing about a gun of choice.

This wasn't my intention at all; and, I'm sorry that you feel that it was.

jlv08 - the thing I can't understand, in what you have said, is this: Why didn't all those people you have helped with their 870s just send them back in to Remington? They do have a warranty - right? If something goes wrong with my new 870, that I just got for Christmas, I'll send it back to Remington for repair.

Again, I apologize to Big D for hijacking his thread. I failed to see that, that was what I did. I guess I just have to accept the fact that my wife gave me a piece of junk Remington for Christmas.

 

[jlv08]

Bill, my remarks were not to belittle Remingtons per se as I've seen more good than bad in my time and have worked on some for friends who did not want to hassle with shipping them back for repair.

The guns from Remington that have been the ones that have had bad reports and the ones handled by me were some made as of late.

The earlier guns (Expresses) are great guns and I know some guys who hunt over dogs beating deer out of the thickets here in Tidewater that love'em.

And for damn good reason. They are as reliable as gravity!

I just wanted to draw a comparison between the Pardner, let's say is an orange, compared to an Express ( recent manufacture) which is a grapefruit.

Both are price point guns and both have their virtues.

The Pardners get slammed because they are chinese built guns, are similar in construction to the venerable 870, and little is known about the quality due to recent importation.

I was skeptical when I bought mine but it has proven it self over time and works like a charm. (So do my SKS rifles,but that's another topic.)

I have nothing but good to say about the guns I bought from NEF as they are a good bargain and are very well constructed straight out of the box.

I just am not concerned as others about the "China Syndrome" that causes such a meltdown between posters and foments hard feelings.

When folks start a thread inquiring about the NEF shotgun, some folks chime in negatively and the topic turns sour.

I'm all for folks buying what ever makes their socks roll up and down and I simply rate a firearm on it's merits, as was the case with the Pardner Pump.

I"M NOT THE FINAL AUTHORITY ON THIS ISSUE! I just rendered and observation based on my experience.

I did not mean to imply ALL 870's are junk, just some as of late have not been up to the quality standards that we, as consumers, have come to know and trust.

I hope that your shotgun is up the the great quality standard that Remington is known for and you don't have a hunt ruined by a malfunction due to poor quality.

And if you think I was berating your gun, I wasn't. I hope I did not offend you and am offering and olive branch and an apology for my part in the negative "air' that I may have given regarding this topic.

 

[Big Bill]

jlv08 - great post. I certainly have no hard feelings. In fact, I am glad you said what you did.

BTW, I disassembled my 870 this morning to clean it and test for functionality before going out to shoot it. Everything went well until I tried to insert 6 cartridges into the magazine. It stopped dead at 5 rounds. So, I disassembled it checked it and reassembled it again several times without any success. I finally had to take some fine grit sandpaper and do some work where the extention tube meets the magazine. I also had to sand off the plastic magazine follower a little. And, now it is finally accepting all 6 rounds.

So, I'm thinking that maybe next time, I'll try a Pardner Pump! BTW, thanks to the OP for a great discussion. I'm glad this thread is hear; because, I've learned a bunch.

 

[ahpd1992]

So, no pictures of Big Bill's PP I guess?

Sorry, but I couldn't resist

 

[Big Bill]

I'll post the pictures of my PP here, as soon as I get one. And, BTW, I'm lookin forward to it.

 

[Hunterdad]

I really enjoy seeing the debate between the PP and 870's. Great points have been made and I would like to share my recent run-ins with both guns.

Let it be known, I am a huge Remington fan and own several of them, including a 1972 Wingmaster which doesnt even compare to any express's or PP.

I bought a PP for HD purposes and built it for an HD gun. It served me well, never had a problem but I couldnt get around the fact that is was made in China. I sold it about 5 months later and bought an 870. Cleaned it up and took it out for a duck hunt. What a dissapointment! It wouldnt cycle at all and ruined my hunt. Took it home, cleaned it and then tried to shoot it again with little luck. I gave it to a buddy of mine as a gift. I then went out and bought another one. It had the same issues and the fit/finish was downright awful. So I sold it and bought an APG camo PP and it has been through hell and back (even took duty as a boat oar)and I have never had any issues with it and it has over 1000 rds through it. I loved it so much I went back out and bought another PP for HD and haven't looked back. As long as it does what I want/expect it to do, I can get over the fact it was made in China.

 

[jlv08]

There in lies it's beauty. I was very skeptical myself, but I've worked with

metals all my life and am schooled in machine trades. I drew on my

experience and really looked the Pardner Pump over well the day I

encountered it in the shop I purchased it from.

I got it home and cleaned out the preservative, carried it out to fire a few rounds and came back with a big grin on my face.

I am of the same breed when it comes to Items of import but the Pardner is a good little gun ( I'm referencing my 20Ga. compact).

I had a 12 Ga. and it was heavy and a bud liked it alot and he's the owner now and reports no problems.

My 20 will do all I ask it to with the right ammo. I am a bit loathe to use it for a boat paddle though! LOL!

 

[Hunterdad]

I haven't heard much about the 20's. I was thinking about picking one up for the wife. I'll have to check those out.

 

[jlv08]

The Pardner pump compact is a smaller frame version of the 12 ga. It is a robustly built shotgun that has a 21"bbl. and is matte blued finish with real walnut stock,

All steel construction with machined aluminum trigger housing.

What drew me to mine was the barrel length, blued finish and nice walnut figuring.

It looks real good for a field grade shotgun and the price was right.

The 12 I had was a beast. It was a little on the heavy side for me but shot well, patterned well and did not have any hangups of any kind right out of the box.

The Compact is a nicely sized shotgun and just fits me right.

I don't feel the least undergunned with a 20 ga. for field use and it would do great for HD if I do my part.

My wife is 5'!' in stocking feet and the length of pull was a little long for her petite size.

She handled a 410 single and it made her eyes twinkle.

It's within her reach should she need it for the "bump in the night" along with a 5 shot .38 special.

I work nights and I like to keep her armed with what she is comfy with and she does good with both .

 

[50caliber123]

jlv08, have you been able to find any replacement parts/accessories for your PP compact in 20ga? A buddy of mine has one, and it seems that in 20ga, 870 parts don't interchange.

 

[tango3065]

Just curious, do these say made in China on them??

 

[MAX100]

The Pardner Pump & Hawk 982 has on the receiver: Made in China By Hawk Ind.


GC

 

[tango3065]

Just curious, I wouldn't stray from my 2 870's.

 

[jlv08]

I haven't found any accessories and haven't really looked, the truth be told.

I have to confess a little ignorance here because I ,if you'll forgive my anolgy, wasn't trying to put ,let's say Ford parts on a Chevy.

I did not think Remington parts were compatable with the NEF design.

I wasn't aware of any aftermarket items that would fit and to this day, it wasn't my desire to add to the shotguns as they are fine in their stock form.

IMHO!

I believe Max100 can fill you in on accessories and He seems to be an A-O-K fellow and is up to speed with that kind of thing.

I liked my Pardners just the way they came.

I guess I might not be up with the times but my mindset, with decently honed skills, is just fine with a plain jane short barrelled shotgun.

I have a 12ga. with a 20" barrell and the Pardner Pump in 21 " barrel and sundry items of goblin doom in the hacienda.

Box stock is cool with me.

To add ,they are definitely marked MADE IN CHINA BY HAWK IND. Not yelling, it's just how it is marked.

 

[[Pb]]

This thread encouraged me to go order a Pardner Protector at Bi-Mart for $179, hopefully I'll have it soon. (NW shooters, Bi Mart has some of the best prices around on new guns and ammo.)

I don't care where it's made if it's good. Hopefully everyone will buy Chinese 870's and make Remington suffer for letting their QC on the Express slip.

 

[Big Bill]

Personally, I don't think I could ever get over that "MADE IN CHINA BY HAWK IND" stamp on the gun. I'm just too set in my ways change.

 

[jlv08]

I have to say I respect your feelings, It took me a while to get past the made in China as well, but I am happy nonetheless.

If you should change your mind, you still wind up ok as these are good shotguns.

Again, I do respect your opinion and have enjoyed the lively debate about these Pardners.

Just a side note, I'm starting to purchase some of their single barrels and hope to have one of all of the gauges.

I still have that kid in me that loves that style of shotgun.

 

[Big Bill]

It has been a great discussion - thanks for that. Maybe I'll get one for my SIL.

 

[rustycrusty]

Just a little humor here. The Mexicans who were making bowling balls for Brunswick after they(bruns.) moved their manufacture from USA to mexico
arescreaming bloody murder 'cause Brunswick just moved the factory to China. Pretty soon everything will be made in China, and we'll all be their debtors!