The perfect gun shop (warning, rant enclosed)

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JamisJockey

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So, deep into a long climb with a headwind on my road bike, I got into an exertion-related state of delirium, and dreamed up my idea of the pefect gun shop.
Let me start with my complaints about gun shops:
Old buildings. Stained carpets. Standing room only. Dark, poorly lit. Poorly selling merchandise just rots on the shelves, collecting dust. Employees who are too proud to admit when they are wrong or just don't know.
Now, here's what I envision:
I want somewhere I can go and hang out. There should be seating, coffehouse style with low chairs around small tables or ottomons. There should be plenty of reading material, both books and periodicals. Coffee, would be good, too. :D I can picture three-quarters-of-a-dozen regulars sitting around discussing everything from politics to theories on ammo selection. The smell of dark, columbian coffee fills the air.
The shop should be well lit, natural light would be a bonus, with uncluttered aisles and at least an attempt at keeping the floors clean.
Employees should at least be intellectually honest, admitting when they are only posing an opinion, or just don't know the answer. Hence the wide library of magazines and books.
Not all the guns should be behind the counter. There should be some racks where I can browse and handle without being bugged by the salesman.
Indoor range, with proper ventilation. In addition, there should be a wide variety of rentals. I hate buying a gun without ever having shot it!

Thanks for hearing me out today!
 
Reminds me of a tobacco shop I used to visit.

Front part of the store had EVERY imaginable tobacco product. The uncouth cigarette packs and cartons. Rows of various pipe tobacco in glass containers. Supplies for rolling cigarettes. A small room filled with a WIDE selection of cigars. Several types of fresh coffee. Iced tea, soda. A small selection of munchies. Lots of magazines of every subject imaginable. From "Rolling Stone" to "Guns and Ammo". Lots of space. Clerk never hassled you unless you asked for help locating something.

Back room? Jukebox, an arcade game, two pool tables, leather furniture (and plenty of them)

Of course, the owner passed ownership to his kid when he retired. Kid was a non-smoker, so he gutted the place and turned it into a tanning salon. Switching from lung cancer to skin cancer. Lovely.

I still remember sitting in a large very comfy leather seat, sipping cold iced tea, reading a copy of Guns and Ammo (or whatever gun mag caught my eye, they had a good selection of firearm mags), and having a cigarette without being bothered. Once in a while, I'd feed the jukebox.

Sigh...
 
Sounds great, where do I find this place?
The reality is that this place sounds like a high overhead business (nice, clean, spacious, with competent employees) and I can envision a steady stream of "customers" who talk a lot, drink a lot of coffee, hang out in your nice, air conditioned place, and in the end, spend very little money. Oh, don't forget all the "loyal customers" who will come and take advantage of your try-them-out-on-the-range policy, and then go buy the same gun from the giant discount chain store down the street.
I imagine many of the smaller mom-and-pop gun shops start out with a vision very much like you described, and find out that in this day and age, it's just not financially feasible. For one thing, if there's a store full of "customers", lounging, and talking, and generally hanging out at this establishment, they will want and expect you to speak with and hang out with them (they're coming in to shoot-the-bull with you). The problem comes in when you can't find the time to run the business, and do the nessary work because there's always someone who wants to talk about the same things you were talking about with the last guy...it gets old fast.
Actually, there's a place here in Lafayette, LA. thats about as close to your vision of the perfect gun store, as is possible IMHO. Fairly neat, though a bit crowded, fairly clean, a table with a few chairs where, on most afternoons, the regular gang hangs out. You can go in and browse the used guns, order a new gun, or just have coffee or a beer with the guys. (Yes, I've been offered a longneck there several times, even though I only average going in there to browse about 6-8 times a year.) There is no indoor range here, as it is part of a strip shopping plaza. I imagine if you had an indoor range, location, location, location becomes harder to achieve as well.
 
Atc1man, you hit on my "if I ever win the lottery" business.

I think an indoor range/coffee shop/book store/education center (classrooms and such) would be an excellent little business, and one I will open if I don't have to worry about it being profitable (which I believe it would eventually be).

The idea is that gun shops and ranges could be places where shooters also go when they aren't shooting ... also you might get the occasional coffee drinker who doesn't shoot in just for a good cup of Uganda Blue and a scone.

These dirty little "Good Old Boy" dungeons are just depressing and don't encourage non "Good Old Boy"/"bubba"/"redneck" types to join the ranks of "shooters".

Wanna get more "minorities" and women to shoot (or at least non-bubba types) ... you gotta make the place look/smell good at the least.



disclaimer: this post was not ment to offend our "Bubba", "Good Old Boy" or "redneck" friends ... those terms are used fondly and aren't intended to be derogatory or otherwise impune the character of our southern and rural friends.
 
Wanna get more "minorities" and women to shoot (or at least non-bubba types) ... you gotta make the place look/smell good at the least
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Not to mention, that the influx of Libertarians into the shooting sports, as well as the families and less "typical" shooters who are becoming more and more involved in the shooting sports. I'm sure alot of people are put off by some of the dumps that are labeled "Gun Shop".



I imagine if you had an indoor range, location, location
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Here in Utah, Basements are a very common occurance. So, for a 2000 sqf footprint on the lot, you typically have double the actual square footage.
 
I hate to be a stickler, but my perfect shop would also have pricing that would allow me to purchase new items, ammunition, and rent range time without going broke. Many shops I visit seem to have a 'screw you while we've got you in here' attitude on pricing.

I'm not talking 'match Wal-Mart white box ammo prices' here, but $12/hr for range time (with most of the lanes empty), ammo at 100+% markup, and firearms priced a lot higher than a basic galleryofguns.com search for the local area would turn up aren't going to leave me with enough money to return any time soon.
 
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=379792&highlight=elephant#post379792

Posted by Marko Kloos in above link:

I've been planning my own shop for years now: it will be called "The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms".

It will be a bar combined with a full range and a cigar store/walk-in humidor. Smoking will be permitted everywhere. The bar will be made of solid tropical wood. The bar stools will be covered with baby seal fur, and the peanut buckets will be elephant feet. The rental guns will all have genuine elephant ivory grip panels. The bar will have a lunch menu consisting of nothing but endangered and/or exotic species. The walk-in humidor will be stocked with illegally imported Cuban cigars.

The range will feature indoor and outdoor stations from 7 to 1,000 yards. Full-auto fire and tracers will be expressly permitted.

It will be the most Politically Incorrect establishment in the country, and shooters from four states away will flock to it. Liberals will hate it, tree huggers will picket it, and PETA types will have heart attacks when they see it.
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I hate to be a stickler, but my perfect shop would also have pricing that would allow me to purchase new items, ammunition, and rent range time without going broke. Many shops I visit seem to have a 'screw you while we've got you in here' attitude on pricing.

I'm not talking 'match Wal-Mart white box ammo prices' here, but $12/hr for range time (with most of the lanes empty), ammo at 100+% markup, and firearms priced a lot higher than a basic galleryofguns.com search for the local area would turn up aren't going to leave me with enough money to return any time soon.
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Yep, the gun shops around here have that attitude and that's why I buy my stuff online. Plus, the shops around here are seedy places and I don't like spending time there.

Illinois is definitely not a place to live if you enjoy shooting.

:(
 
Im glad someone posted this. I have worked on and off at a gun store here in Nashville for a few years now. I see the other side of the counter and I can tell you it isnt pretty.
Let's start with the guys sitting around shooting the bull. A bunch of older retirees who will bore your ears off with their opinions on 158gr vs 124gr bullets, what great buys they made on guns 20 years ago, what hunting was really like in the 1950s and who the heck really cares? They will eat and drink, spilling crap on your carpet. They wouldnt think of spending a dime because they have all the guns they need, and they wont sell them because every one of them is worth a thousand bucks at least. But they'll be there dutifully every day because its better than being home with the wife.
On new guns the markup is pitiful. I dont see how stores can stay in business stocking new guns. And darned if you dont get in a Smith 500Magnum with 8 3/8 barrell and some coot wont buy it because he wants the 10 inch and can find it cheaper somewhere else anyway. Meanwhile you have about $800 in the gun with a $150 mark-up and it will sit forever while Bubba plays "how low will you go." It doesnt matter that no one in town sells the gun for what you have it marked, if Bubba cant Christian you down the extra 5 bucks he aint gonna buy it. And if you do agree to do this just to shut the fool up he has to go ask his wife first and thats the last you see of him.
On used guns the sellers come in and then complain that they can get more going to the gun show. They're right. Maybe. The buyers have to bash every scratch, nick, and imperfection even though the gun works perfectly and you're selling it for half the cost of a new one. Meanwhile their buddy who "really knows guns" is telling the buyer he can find one cheaper down the street at the pawn shop and this one has a cracked slide and you're just trying to rip him off.
I can't forget the woman who comes in toting the used Taurus .357magnum you sold her last week with all the caveats and throwing in both .38SP and .357 jsut to make the deal work and throws the gun down and demands her money back because she shot it once and didnt like the recoil. Why cant you refund her money? Wal-Mart does it all the time?
Oh yeah, add in the bro's who are browsing the AK's and SKS's. They all have long coats and suspicious bulges in their pockets. Not a one of them could pass the NICS check anyway but they'll haunt the store picking up that same Hi-Point about a dozen times. Watch out about the guy who asks for a real short carbine, short enough to hang out a car window (this actually happened btw).
So add to your fantasy of the perfect gun store that they should give guns away just because you look nice and provide lifetime service and free gunsmithing. It might happen.
 
So add to your fantasy of the perfect gun store that they should give guns away
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Sorry to piss you off with the truth. I think there are plenty of us fed up with dark, dirty, stinky gun stores with dusty merchandise and rude employees who know it all and won't hesitate to tell you.
There are bad aspects to operating a business in all kinds of different businesses. However, you gun store guys complain about us taking our business online, or to Walmart...when there is no effort being made to break new ground (at least not around here) in the gun store industry.
:cuss:
 
Rabbi, notice I didn't say anything about "selling guns" anywhere near the primary activities in my shop ;)


I'm thinking you stock a few nice guns, but mostly you just do transfers at a good price and stock the crap out of accessories and such ... and if you have a coffee shop, you don't give out free coffee.
 
"Old buildings. Stained carpets. Standing room only. Dark, poorly lit. Poorly selling merchandise just rots on the shelves, collecting dust. Employees who are too proud to admit when they are wrong or just don't know."

:scrutiny:

You've been to Doug's Shooting Sports I see.
 
I'm thinking you stock a few nice guns, but mostly you just do transfers at a good price and stock the crap out of accessories and such ... and if you have a coffee shop, you don't give out free coffee.
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You know, that just might work.

Rabbi, I'm thinking that most of the complaints from the other side of the counter you so feelingly articulated could be solved that way.

How 'bout this? A "gun store" which includes:
  • A nice, clean, well lit book and magazine sales area, with plenty of comfy seating. Browsing specifically encouraged. (Barnes & Noble makes $$$$)
  • A good coffee shop, with lattes and cappacinos and chai teas and some of those yummy biscottis. (Barnes & Nobles with Starbucks in them make even more $$$$$)
  • A huge selection of ammo, reloading supplies, hearing and eye protection, cleaning supplies, and other goodies. (Volume discount from suppliers means you can offer these items at competitive prices, plus having them in stock makes people drop by the store and spend money on books, magazines, accessories, and coffee whenever they have a sudden "urgent need" for a box of 10mm.)
  • Off-the-rack holsters to buy outright. (You make money on the markup, and you are selling convenience.)
  • Samples of many different holsters from mass production companies and from custom makers, available for a fairly wide variety of popular guns, which may be rented for a week or a month while the customer decides which one is most suitable. Help selecting features which may suit the customer's style of carry and body type. Orders may be placed through the shop for a fairly low fee, with the fee guaranteeing that the shop will buy the holster back (and turn it into a sample for the next guy) if it doesn't work for you after all. (You make money renting the samples. You make money on the ordering fees. You make money on the incidentals the customer buys while he is browsing holsters.)
  • A competent gunsmith. (You make money on smithing fees. You make money on a small markup for whatever parts are ordered. You make money on incidentals when the customer comes in to pick up or drop off his gun for work.)
  • A good, well-ventilated range, with alert safety officers. (You make money on range fees, and because of the good safety officers, you save money because you don't have to settle nasty ugly lawsuits after some stupid person gets shot doing something stupid on your premises.)
  • A very, very, very wide selection of rental guns -- together with immediately accessible ordering information for each rental gun brand and type. (You make money on the rentals. You make money on the FFL fees -- which you keep reasonable so that people order through you. You make money on ammo sales and you make money on the incidentals people buy to go with their new guns. Plus you just might avoid the annoyed lady with the Taurus who wants her money back because it recoils more than she anticipated.)
  • Only a few new guns are actually in stock for immediate purchase, but computer terminals are everywhere and helpful employees stand ready to assist you to place your order with Online Gunz R' Us when you are ready to do so. (Again, money from FFL fees, ammo, and incidentals ... and if the lady with the .38 Taurus does come back, you charge her 15% of her purchase price to cover your outlay, refund her the remainder, and turn the Taurus into one of your rental guns.)
  • Used guns are carefully inspected and the customer may pay a rental fee for the privilege of firing them before purchase. (Money from the rental fees, money from ammo sales, percentage of sale price.)

Did I forget anything?

pax

Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. -- Ayn Rand
 
Only a few new guns are actually in stock for immediate purchase, but computer terminals are everywhere
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Makes perfect sense because the dealer WON'T have a lot of $$$ tied up in inventory that gathers dust. Makes even more sense for handguns (72 hr wait or 10-day wait or whatever other local/state waiting periods are imposed).
Even better is the terminal w/credit-card reader; the dealer wouldn't have to tie up ANY $$$ as the buyer pays for product and shipping.

I spent a summer converting a factory from bare 150- and 200-watt incandescent lights to 2-tube fluorescent fixtures a few years back; I'd be willing to wager that their initial electric bills were a heck of a lot higher than the average shop. 1:1 replacement meant cheaper electric bills and more light through increased size and reflection, and the additional benefit of cooler operation (up to 10 degrees!).

A vacuum cleaner with a brush attachment ain't gonna break the bank either :D
 
How about reloaded ammo? One could sell reloads or "homeloads" from the shop for a profit as well. After all, if there isnt anyone in the shop, someone can be cranking away on the Dillon. Bring in your brass, and get a 10% discount on your next purchase of reloads. Cheap plinking ammo for uncommon cheap ammo, like 10mm, .41mag, .270, .38super. For the more expensive ammo, a deposit could be paid on the brass unless shot in the range.


Specialty loads at 20% below commercial (like .700NE, 7.7mm Arisaka, .356TSW, .35Wheelen, etc)


Classes for non-directly-shooting-related stuff, like reloading ammo, cleaning the gun, detail stripping, sight adjustment, etc. Some can be 10min mini-courses tought for $10 (I would pay that to keep from screwing up my gun and having it need 'smithed) to $25 for the 1hr classes like reloading and detail stripping.
 
sounds like starbucks meets cabellas. id settle for a gun store that kept reg hours, and had the acessorys and ammo i needed. it could stink alittle of hoppes9 and semi dim lighting would be ok. and it wouldnt bother me too much if the counter guys was surly on his occaisional bad day. the place pax is talking about exists, its called heaven and christ runs the counter:)
 
Huge liability issue, Moparmike.:( Rabbi, I hear ya! BTDT. ;) pax, sounds good, real good. All one needs is deep pockets and/or a lot of time to amortize out the huge initial outlay.
My best friend and I always envisioned a gun shop similar to the bar we hung out in. Log & knotty pine, lots of taxidermy, etc. with just a few added touches- Like Hoppe's circulating through a trough at the bar, so you could clean your guns right at the bar, the dance floor would be the indoor pistol range, build a covered outdoor range, with TV's that show your target, NTN Trivia, but only about guns, hunting, and related subjects, (SHTF, zombie-mutant-ninja bears....:p )
Of, course, talk about your liability issues.....:rolleyes:
 
When I wrote that I wondered what kind of response I would get. I was waiting for someone (maybe our last customer) to sound off about how unreasonable I was etc etc. I didnt have to wait long.

I forgot the transfer thing. Here is the scenario: customer comes in and wants gun transferred. You give him the blue ink copy and either charge him the $25 then or wait until he picks it up. Gun comes in. Gun is not what was promised (that never happens, I know). Buyer refuses to take it. You hold the gun and then ship it back to seller. Guess who gets to eat the shipping fees plus the time and headache involved? Sounds like a lot of hassle for 25 bucks. OR, you get the gun in, run the background check and lo and behold your buyer beat on his old lady 20 years ago and cant pass the check. Guess who has to wait around for the appeal process, holding the gun the whole time with all the attendant liability and probably sending it back eating shipping cost along the way?

I know some gun stores are pretty unpleasant places and some of the people who work there are more interested in showing off, jawboning with folks or whatever than in being courteous, informed and helpful. I have certainly been to those kinds as well.

A range is a million dollar proposition. I mean thats what one costs to get up and operating. You have liability out the ying yang and the conttinuing costs (mostly insurance) are high. I see guys here squawking over $10 range fees and gotta wonder.

Clean, well lit premises with enough space for barka loungers and whatever cost money. Good enthusiastic salespeople who know what they are doing cost money. Gunsmiths for sure cost money. Ranges I have already mentioned. And someone thinks they are going to cover that kind of overhead selling bargain priced magazines, cleaning supplies, and periodicals (why buy it? Just sit there and read the thing) they have another thing coming.
I should mention on the holsters that the store I worked in stocked more holsters than anyone else in the area. An order from Galco had to be $5000 or more so we didnt order too many times. Some dude would come in and ask for a left handed brown IWB holster for Desert Eagle 50cal and lo and behold we had one in stock. Then he saw that it was $60 plus tax and would go on line and order it for $50 plus shipping. We chewed up a lot of time trying to figure out if a Witness would fit in a SIG holster or whatever. Often the guy would end with a pile of holsters on the floor and a pile of wrappers next to it and then decide he didnt like any.

Bottom line is that I see a lot of people here who think that gun stores must make tons of money and can provide them with everything, including cut rate prices on guns, ammo, supplies etc. It aint so, none of it. I'd love to hear from someone who actually owns/owned a gun store.
 
I don't think you get the point, Rabbi. I'm obviously not alone. Gun stores are typically dumps. Dirty places where I don't want to bring my child when he's older.
I'm big into cycling, and its my primary hobby. Bicycle shops are typically nice, clean, and well lit. Most have employees that give a **** about the customers. They probably move more merchandise then a typical gun shop, but the point is that I don't want to shop at gun stores.

You've been to Doug's Shooting Sports I see.
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And Totally Awesome. And Gallensons (although the guys at Gallensons are good to go). And that little dump on redwood and 70something south.

I think Pax has taken my idea and is running with it. He gets it.

Loose Cannon:
I like it....A Cabellas or Sportsman's with a coffehouse inside, located right between the guns and fishing departments would rock!
 
ATC1, I think you dont get the point. Yes, I understand that a lot of gun stores look like someone's basement (probably smell that way too) and are inhabited by trolls as well sometimes. I wouldnt want to defend that and a store should be clean and orderly at a minimum.

When was the last time you bought a motorcycle on-line and had it shipped to your local dealer? You cant compare the two in any manner.

My point is that people have unrealistic expectations, wanting everything including someone else to pay for it all. Life doesnt work that way. Stores are the way they are for a reason. Let's also remember guns are a declining business. I believe the trade mags have been charting fewer units sold for probably 20 years.
 
Sounds like a call to bring gun retailing into the early 21st century. I've got a dream just like it.

I see two sides to the establishment. Side A is a genuine official Noo Yark deli complete with obscenely sized pastrami sammiches all the other wonders of a proper deli. Tables, chairs, maybe a patio outside, latte, java, and joe on tap. Nice magazine rack and perhaps a wide screen TV and dish.

Side B would include a gun shop designed by and for the exclusive use of women. Plenty of outside light, curtains, potted plants, doilys (?sp), fresh air, clean carpet, and employees in clean cloths. Decent, not excessive inventory. Side B would also have an indoor range designed to all the latest legal and safety rules but with a heavy female hand on its interior decorating.

Marketing the shop would consist of something like "Soup and a Glock". One flat price gets you a bowl of soup de jour, a 9 mm Glock, and a box of WW finest FMJ. Don't like soup, try a sammich. Got some time to kill? Sip a latte or blow off a box, your choice. Make it a destination.

What got me thinkin' this way was when I had to go clothes shopping with my wife. I without exception ended up proped up on a clothes rack asking her how much longer. One time we went to a women's clothing shop in Hendersonville, NC Hiway 64 across the road from World of Clothing. It was a serious women's clothing shop with one little bonus. It had a fairly large room filled with a big screen TV, a satellite dish, and some comfortable chairs. It forever changed my view of shopping for women's clothing. Never saw a woman in the room but I did see considerable number of men. Whaddya think happen to average customer sales when men weren't standing around trying to hurry up their wives.

Now where is that lotto ticket?
 
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