The Perfected

[RevolvingGarbage]

I finally found a good deal on one of my "grail" handguns, the S&W Perfected model. This is a sort of a hybrid of the hand ejector and top-break actions, having both the top T shaped latch, and the modern thumb latch on the left hand side. Both must be actuated to open the gun. The caliber is .38S&W.

I have read that 59,400 of these were produced between 1909 and 1920. This guns serial number comes in quite late at 5895X. The bore and chambers are like new, even though the finish has a few rougher areas. I really didn't like the pearl grips at first, however, they are growing on me. The pictures don't do them justice at all.

Does anyone else think a factory letter might be in order? I would still be in the gun less than $300 in total

 

[kBob]

Nice. And the pearl grips just look "right " on that gun.

Makes me think of white shirts, straw hats and canes just to look at it. About 1960 or so all the oldest crackers in North Florida carried some sort of top break or another it seemed and wore those three items.

-kBob

 

[Old Fuff]

The Old Fuff is also looking for one, so don't pass any dark allays...

It was an ingenious way to use up surplus top-break parts with a minimum of new tooling, and most of what made it up were already in stock. The only thing about it that was really new was the frame.

And they addressed a major point in Colt's not exactly fair advertising that the S&W top-break design was seriously flawed because if a bad guy got close enough he could reach over, lift the barrel latch, tip the barrel down, and eject all of the cartridges in the cylinder. This was far more theory then practice, but the Perfected Model ended any speculation.

By 1920 most of the reasons for its existence were past history because most buyers preferred the 1903 H-E or Regulation Police model.

You could get it lettered, but for $50 all you would learn that you don't already know is that it was shipped on a certain date to a particular distributor - and the pearl stocks are likely aftermarket replacements. If it turned out otherwise the increased value of the stocks, and to a degree the revolver, would more then pay for the letter. Other then that it's your choice.

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

I don't intend to ever sell this, so I'm not concerned so much with adding monetary value to the gun. The history aspect is what compells me to buy up all the "old junk" anyway. I will probably end up getting the letter, just to know those few minute details.

 

[Monac]

I suppose you already know, RevolvingGarbage, but any J-frame grip will fit your Perfected Model. If you can see the tiny little sights, they sometimes shoot surprisingly well. I like the old factory Trophy target style grips myself.

 

[PRM]

I've owned and carried one off and on for 35 years. They are one sweet vintage S&W. The Colt sports pre-ban elephant ivory, the Perfected has vintage Sambar Stag.

 

[joem1945]

Very nice! I have a S&W double action perfected. Top break and maybe one day I might shoot it with some really mild loads.

 

[Old Fuff]

I might shoot it with some really mild loads.

The Perfected Model wasn't a black-powder revolver, and are safe to shoot with any .38 S&W cartridges loaded by the mainstream (Remington, Winchester, Federal, etc.) ammunition companies.

 

[Jim K]

I got a Ladysmith a while back, so the Perfected is now up there on my "grail" list.

But I don't think S&W was just using up top-break parts. They were still making the .38 Double Action in 1909 and they didn't stop making the Safety Hammerless until the advent of WWII when they had to devote all of the factory to production of the M&P for the British contracts.

While the story about the evil "latch snatcher" sounds unlikely, it is at least plausible, and we might recall that the Schofield latch was intended to solve that same problem. What is surprising to me is that there was so much of a market c. 1909-1920 for a modernized top-break revolver.

Jim

 

[Monac]

The Perfected Model wasn't a black-powder revolver, and are safe to shoot with any .38 S&W cartridges loaded by the mainstream (Remington, Winchester, Federal, etc.) ammunition companies.

(Deleted - misinformation. Old Fuff is correct.)

 

[Old Fuff]

The Perfected Model is an odd but interesting bird. Half of it is a top-break, and the rest is the same as the Model 1903 Hand Ejector. About the only original part is the frame, and it was about 90% tooled in the first place. This being the case Smith & Wesson was able to put it into production with very little up-front development costs.

Because they were using up previously made barrels, barrel stampings are not always a dependable indicator of black vs. smokeless powder use. But it doesn't matter.

They were made from 1909 to 1920, serial numbered from 1 to 59,400. All were certified as being O.K. for smokeless ammunition. None of the mainline ammunition companies make any .38 S&W Plus-P cartridges. You should be good to go.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I'd love to own one of these, VERY cool gun! I'd use mine for CCW!

 

[Old Fuff]

I'd use mine for CCW!

Should work fine as most were originally used in that context. A handload using soft lead 148 grain full-wadcutters, seated with the hollow base down works fine and makes a great primary channel. You'll find them (if you're lucky) with 3 1/4, 4, 5 and 6 inch barrels. Anything shorter then 3 1/4" is highly questionable. Recoil is modest, even in a very light revolver.

 

[PRM]

While the story about the evil "latch snatcher" sounds unlikely, it is at least plausible, and we might recall that the Schofield latch was intended to solve that same problem.

The lock on the Schofield was redesigned for the Cavalry to make it quicker and easier to reload on horseback

http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Manufacturers/S&W/Revolvers Black/_45 Schofield Revolver.htm

 

[Barry the Bear]

That is quite a gun , needs some leather to go with it!

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I don't intend to ever sell this, so I'm not concerned so much with adding monetary value to the gun. The history aspect is what compells me to buy up all the "old junk" anyway. I will probably end up getting the letter, just to know those few minute details.

I have a Regulation Police from 1923 that I got lettered. I didn't learn anything particularly interesting from the letter, but the history of the gun was fun to know.

I learned it was all original from it's outward appearance at least, it was shipped to a hardware store in Chicago, that was the precursor to Ace Hardware, and that it was three years older than the advertised age.

Was any of that significant? No, not really. However, I made a copy of the letter, and bought a triangle shadow box meant for a flag. I folded the copy and used it as a backdrop in the shadow box and stuck the gun in there for display. It looks pretty nice IMO, and adds a little history to the gun.

If you do order a letter, be very very patient. I don't exactly remember how long it took, but it was upwards of 5-6 months. I believe Roy Jinks had surgery during that time though, so he was recovering. It may be a faster turn around now.

 

[Zebraranger]

I love the old top break revolvers, they're pieces of art to me. This is my Smith & Wesson 3rd Model Double Action made in 1887. My Dad passed it down to me a few years back. I don't shoot it, its just a safe queen but I do love to take it out every now and then just to admire the craftsmanship.

 

[bannockburn]

Very neat looking top-break revolver. Like the nickel plating along with the pearl grips.

 

[the Real Alpo]

Should work fine as most were originally used in that context. A handload using soft lead 148 grain full-wadcutters, seated with the hollow base down works fine and makes a great primary channel. You'll find them (if you're lucky) with 3 1/4, 4, 5 and 6 inch barrels. Anything shorter then 3 1/4" is highly questionable. Recoil is modest, even in a very light revolver.

Yep, that's how I shoot mine. 148 grain hollowbase wadcutters, loaded to the same OAL of the 145 grain RN, using data for the 145 grain RN. The hollow skirt expands to grip the rifling, making it quite accurate, and that flat nose would do a number on flesh - MUCH better than factory RN.

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

That is quite a gun , needs some leather to go with it!

Thanks! Leather, I've got. The need is for something that is iwb and not total garbage. I tried a little nylon holster I've had, and it just didn't feel comfy. Today, I used the old "rubber bands around the grip" trick. Much more functional, but still not what the gun calls for.

Anyone got a line on somebody making iwb's for guns from this time last century?

Anybody got a time machine?

Attached: Partial carry pool.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

And they addressed a major point in Colt's not exactly fair advertising that the S&W top-break design was seriously flawed because if a bad guy got close enough he could reach over, lift the barrel latch, tip the barrel down, and eject all of the cartridges in the cylinder. This was far more theory then practice, but the Perfected Model ended any speculation.

Howdy

Just been experimenting with reaching over the top of a S&W Top Break and opening it from in front. Yes, I was able to do it with my New Model Number Three, but it took a bunch of tries to get it just right. Not something you would probably be able to do in the heat of a confrontation unless you had practiced it for a while.

A lot more difficult on a small pocket pistol such as the one Zebraranger showed. I have the exact same gun, just not as fancy.

And as far as loading the Schofield on horseback, yes, it is quick and easy to open the latch with one hand and break the gun open by brushing it against your leg. But reloading while riding would be an entirely different matter. One hand to hold the gun, one hand to hold the reins, and an extra hand to put the rounds in the chambers? There were only about 7000 Schofields ever made, and as soon as they started producing them crafty old Daniel Wesson charged his engineers with finding a way around Schofield's patent so he would not have to pay the royalties. They never did find a way around the patent, probably one reason only 7000 were made, vs around 150,000 Russians. After that, they went back to the standard top latch with the New Model Number Three.

Frankly, I have never been very enthusiastic about the Perfected model. Have fooled with them at auctions and at gunshows. Awkward to operate, you have to work both latches together. Frankly, I always thought it was a solution looking for a problem. Never been interested in acquiring one.

Although, if I came across as nice a one as RevolvingGarbage did for only 300 clams, I might change my mind.

 

[Old Fuff]

Just been experimenting with reaching over the top of a S&W Top Break and opening it from in front. Yes, I was able to do it with my New Model Number Three, but it took a bunch of tries to get it just right. Not something you would probably be able to do in the heat of a confrontation unless you had practiced it for a while.

It's fun to read Colt and Smith & Wesson catalogs and other advertising where they took pot-shots at each other. Both were out for blood (and sales) and could find flaws you'd never notice in the other company's products. Smith & Wesson answered the above claim by saying anyone who let a bad guy get that close was going to be in trouble anyway, and they could easily disable a Colt by holding the cylinder so it couldn't turn while twisting the revolver out of Mr. Goodguy's hand. Same was so with a S&W but that wasn't mentioned.

Frankly, I have never been very enthusiastic about the Perfected model. Have fooled with them at auctions and at gunshows. Awkward to operate, you have to work both latches together. Frankly, I always thought it was a solution looking for a problem. Never been interested in acquiring one.

Smith and Wesson introduced the Perfected Model for two reasons. First, they had a lot of top-break parts they wanted to use up; and second, they could add an additional model to the line for practically no cost in additional tooling. They sold 59,400 (more or less) in 11 years with practically none of the usual expenses. Oh... They wrote the final answer to Colt's rather fanciful claims.

My interest in getting one is the unique and interesting design, and the reasons for it. At the time it would seem that very quick reloading wasn't a big issue. Maybe Great-Grandpa's cool marksmanship made reloading unnecessary.

Although, if I came across as nice a one as RevolvingGarbage did for only 300 clams, I might change my mind.

If I see it first you won't get the chance.

 

[mnrivrat]

Another fan of this model I suspect I will never get one on my kind of budjet.

I have 4 or 5 Model 1903's which I bought at prices I could manage with all of them needing repair, (which I can do myself) , and all are cosmeticaly challenged, which doesn't bother me.

I realy don't like top breaks all that much but my 1&1/2 centerfire for whatever reason is the exception to that. It must be the DA I am most bothered by.

Anyway, after reding the OP's post I already had an offer in mind to e-mail him. As I contined reading all hopes died.

Enjoy your nice S&W

 

[Old Fuff]

Another fan of this model I suspect I will never get one on my kind of budjet.

Seriously, watch auctions and small gun or pawn shops of all kinds. I have seen them go for much lower then you'd expect because the sub-set of bidders/buyers thought it was just another junky top-break... They are all worthless of course.

Also rough cosmetics (that I don't care about either) will knock down prices. If something is messed up in the lock work keep in mind that it's identical to that used in the 1903 Hand Ejectors made during the same time frame. Some parts for those are still available.

 

[ssteven1]

Theses Perfected models are cool. I found this gem for 90$ about 15 years ago. At the time it was covered with a bad cold blue job over nickel and looked horrible. The lock up is tight and it indexes good. After a good cleanup it looks good but is not too pretty to shoot. Just how I like them.