07Lway's statement above seems to be a pretty well stated example of the common citizen's feelings about cops. Unfortunately, the fact that cops are often viewed by normal, law-abiding people as unpredictable and potentially dangerous, and therefore best avoided entirely is a pretty clear indicator there is something very wrong with the way cops enforce the laws and/or the laws themselves.
The Police And You
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07Lway's statement above seems to be a pretty well stated example of the common citizen's feelings about cops. Unfortunately, the fact that cops are often viewed by normal, law-abiding people as unpredictable and potentially dangerous, and therefore best avoided entirely is a pretty clear indicator there is something very wrong with the way cops enforce the laws and/or the laws themselves.
3 gun
Member
Given the easy way many officers will use the phrase "I was just doing my job" while enforcing laws that break many if not all the BOR I voted D. Very few will do anything that could slow down their career advancement. Just look at how easy it was for the officers to collect firearms in NOLA. Protect and serve only applies to covering up for other officers. You as a citizen: guilty until you prove yourself innocent. Sad but very much to true. IMHO
As police militancy moves from the inner city to the suburbs (at least 4 low crime Minneapolis suburbs now carry full auto machine guns in all their patrol cars) and middle class Americans find themselves being subjected to big, bad city-type policing, the "support your local police" attitude is fast eroding. That is bad for the police (in general) but almost entirely brought upon by their own conduct.
No one in middle America worries that they'll be the subject of a SWAT raid on a gang member's drug den in a s**thole neighborhood of Dallas but they do worry that they will be injured/killed in a overreaction raid for betting on a football game. If a accountant in Fairfax, Virginia can be blown away, a small business owner in Minnetonka, Minnesota isn't as safe as he once thought. The lost trust of most Americans will be hard, if not impossible, for the police to regain.
Most people today know the police are not your friend and they avoid contact with the police.
Kalashnikov
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My thoughts about police a fairly mixed. Honestly, I have little likeing for them, But I dont think they are any differant from me. They're just doing what theyre told. They more than likely dont care one way or the other about the laws they enforce, they just try and enforce them. Sure you have the extreme ones on both sides, but most are just apathetic to me.
mljdeckard
Member
I never said all or most cops are bad. But it's undeniable that a lot of guys become cops for the wrong reason. They have seen police do the pushing around, and get away with it, so they want to be on the giving end instead of the receiving end for a change.
Old dog, if you're saying in all your experience, you have never known any cops who fall under the bully/bullied category, I find it difficult to believe.
Old dog, if you're saying in all your experience, you have never known any cops who fall under the bully/bullied category, I find it difficult to believe.
Whats funny about all this is....
People believe police officers are the way they are because that just the type of people they have become...
I dont believe its "the police".... It has to do with what their job is and how they are expected to do it? Police can get sued, killed, fired, repremanded etc for the smallest infractions... What does this do?
What if most people you interacted with on a daily basis lied to you, tried to trick you, didnt care about YOUR JOB, just themselves? I BET SOME PEOPLE JUST GET JADED.... Nothing wrong with that??? Just the way it is...
People believe police officers are the way they are because that just the type of people they have become...
I dont believe its "the police".... It has to do with what their job is and how they are expected to do it? Police can get sued, killed, fired, repremanded etc for the smallest infractions... What does this do?
What if most people you interacted with on a daily basis lied to you, tried to trick you, didnt care about YOUR JOB, just themselves? I BET SOME PEOPLE JUST GET JADED.... Nothing wrong with that??? Just the way it is...
Deanimator
Member
Sounds like my average day as a computer consultant. The difference of course was that if somebody got in my face and started screaming at me because his pirated O/S quit working on him, and I fractured some bones in his face in response, I'd go to jail.
cassandrasdaddy
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tough life
i guess its a tuff dangerous world for computer consultants don't blame ya for the vest and hardware i can see why you need it...
and its easy to see how all that intreraction with cops in that setting makes you so quick to assess em
i guess its a tuff dangerous world for computer consultants don't blame ya for the vest and hardware i can see why you need it...
and its easy to see how all that intreraction with cops in that setting makes you so quick to assess em
JP1954
Member
I didn't answer your poll because I didn't like the the answers offered....perhaps you should have included "none of the above". I used to have a lot of respect for the police and still do respect the officers who are there with the right motives - preserving and protecting the good folks and their stuff, and sincerely wanting to help people and serve the community. What has troubled me the past several years is the proportion of those cops seems to be decreasing and the proportion of cops who are there because A) great pay and benefits (here they start at 60K-70K yr plus benefits which includes retirement = 3% of salary X yrs served.) B) Enjoying having authority over people. C) Adrenaline junkie. D) Any combination of A, B and C.
I and many of my fellow citizens in this community, have experienced condescending arrogance in the attitudes of some of these officers. It seems to me that there is a police subculture that has developed. There is a definite "them or else" attitude that can be clearly seen, heard, and felt.
I have also noticed an increase in their beliefs that the laws don't apply to them. When I was younger, the police here set an example as good drivers. Now they speed with no lights or sirens. They make illegal lane changes, they do major hollywood stops at stop signs and signals, illegal u-turns, etc. etc. I am out teaching my son how to drive and he asks me why they drive like that and what can I tell him except that there is no one that polices the police. Before someone says "well, maybe they are responding to a crime," unless the crime is at Starbucks and they have time for a cup of coffee before making the arrest, I don't think so. Of course sometimes it is a call but then they are displaying a sense of urgency. Most of what I describe above does not appear in that context. In regards to emergency driving, I have researched the California Vehicle Code and my understanding is that they are bound by the law the same as everybody else except when they use LIGHTS and SIREN and even then it doesn't give them the legal right of way....it puts other motorists on alert that said motorists are required to YIELD their right of way to the emergency vehicle. I will let them slide on the no siren if it is a call in which it would benefit them to sneak up on the bad guy. The lights should stay on though until they come within sight of the scene at minimum.
I could go on and on here and also get into unprofessional behavior I have personally witnessed, but to sum it up, there has been an increasing attitude of unaccountability on the part of the police around here. Who's fault is it? It is the citizen's fault. Why? Because we allow it. Will it ever change? When enough of us are fed up and go to our elected officials (Mayor who appointed Police Chief) or (County Sheriff who is elected by the folks) and clearly tell them to discipline their troops or prepare for a career change at next election.
I and many of my fellow citizens in this community, have experienced condescending arrogance in the attitudes of some of these officers. It seems to me that there is a police subculture that has developed. There is a definite "them or else" attitude that can be clearly seen, heard, and felt.
I have also noticed an increase in their beliefs that the laws don't apply to them. When I was younger, the police here set an example as good drivers. Now they speed with no lights or sirens. They make illegal lane changes, they do major hollywood stops at stop signs and signals, illegal u-turns, etc. etc. I am out teaching my son how to drive and he asks me why they drive like that and what can I tell him except that there is no one that polices the police. Before someone says "well, maybe they are responding to a crime," unless the crime is at Starbucks and they have time for a cup of coffee before making the arrest, I don't think so. Of course sometimes it is a call but then they are displaying a sense of urgency. Most of what I describe above does not appear in that context. In regards to emergency driving, I have researched the California Vehicle Code and my understanding is that they are bound by the law the same as everybody else except when they use LIGHTS and SIREN and even then it doesn't give them the legal right of way....it puts other motorists on alert that said motorists are required to YIELD their right of way to the emergency vehicle. I will let them slide on the no siren if it is a call in which it would benefit them to sneak up on the bad guy. The lights should stay on though until they come within sight of the scene at minimum.
I could go on and on here and also get into unprofessional behavior I have personally witnessed, but to sum it up, there has been an increasing attitude of unaccountability on the part of the police around here. Who's fault is it? It is the citizen's fault. Why? Because we allow it. Will it ever change? When enough of us are fed up and go to our elected officials (Mayor who appointed Police Chief) or (County Sheriff who is elected by the folks) and clearly tell them to discipline their troops or prepare for a career change at next election.
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Deanimator
Member
None of the cop situations described were "dangerous", merely annoying.
Again, I was often treated as badly as any cop. The difference of course was that if I had physically assaulted someone for doing so, *I* would have gone to jail.
Deanimator
Member
That's my major beef against cops these days. A lot of them want to enforce the law but not OBEY it, at least as it's written for everyone else.
The Chicago PD union went into hysterics because a proposed Illinois law barring domestic abusers from owning or possessing firearms DIDN'T exempt police. They went on NPR with a list of excuses why cops should be able to beat their wives, yet continue to carry guns. Of course none of those excuses would have impressed anybody with more moral fiber than OJ Simpson or Ted Bundy. And keep in mind that this was the OFFICIAL position of the OFFICIAL organization, representing EVERY cop in Chicago. It's tough to claim that position was merely the raving of some isolated crackpots. If somebody can quote even ONE Chicago cop objecting, I'd REALLY like to see it. Even moreso, I'd like to see somebody who defends the union's position PLAUSIBLY explain why cops who beat their wives should be able to carry guns, but non-cops shouldn't, nevermind that a victim of domestic abuse in Chicago can't even HAVE a handgun with which to defend herself from her batterer, cop or otherwise.
It was simply one of the most shocking demonstrations of both virulent misogyny and contempt for the law I've ever seen and has definitely set the tone for my attitude about police in general ever since.
theleveloftime
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No decent person....
would enforce unconsitutional laws. You just wouldn't. You would say "this law is not right and I am not going to do this". Disarming American citizens is not right, it is not right now matter how many laws are past. John Steinbeck reflected in "Travels with Charlie" that Americans have never loved cops. I do my best to avoid cops by avoiding crime and criminals. These days I am more concerned about cops. Criminals will avoid solid citizens, solid citzens are always at the mercy of police. Solids have something to lose. Solids just want to be able to pay thier ticket and go to work the next day. The last thing a solid wants to is run afoul of the criminal justice system - you will lose your a$$ just trying to clear yourself. Far to many citizens will make a deal and plead to something even if they have done nothing because keeping your house and part of your bank account is much better than spending every red cent to combat a state with limitless resources. You might lose anyway! Six months in the jug verses 10 years? Do realize how far you can get burried for having a weed growing in your yard? One to many bullets in some places? For having a gun that is .1 of an inch to short? Smoking in the park? Far to many laws that make you guilty until proved innocent? God helps us all! You know when your arrested they can charge you with all the crimes they can thing of. You'll have to prove you didn't do it. A vindictive cop can charge you with any horrible thing. At your next job interview you'll be asked" have you ever been arrested? and if so for what"? You'll have to answer. You won't like it. I don't even like to think about it. The goverment is not your friend anymore than the bank or the credit card company is. I am a very law abiding guy but I figure all it takes is being in the wrong place at the wrong time and I will be a newly minted enemy of the state - in a twinkling. When they enact the "Fairness Doctrine" to punish free speach on the radio I figure they will be sending SWAT teams into our basements and atticks for listening to shortwave radio - a criminal activity. Tin foil hat my buttissimo! I bet 99% of everyone on this board is currently breaking some kind of law right now. Most likely one you've never even heard of! Like mixing gin and wine coolers!
would enforce unconsitutional laws. You just wouldn't. You would say "this law is not right and I am not going to do this". Disarming American citizens is not right, it is not right now matter how many laws are past. John Steinbeck reflected in "Travels with Charlie" that Americans have never loved cops. I do my best to avoid cops by avoiding crime and criminals. These days I am more concerned about cops. Criminals will avoid solid citizens, solid citzens are always at the mercy of police. Solids have something to lose. Solids just want to be able to pay thier ticket and go to work the next day. The last thing a solid wants to is run afoul of the criminal justice system - you will lose your a$$ just trying to clear yourself. Far to many citizens will make a deal and plead to something even if they have done nothing because keeping your house and part of your bank account is much better than spending every red cent to combat a state with limitless resources. You might lose anyway! Six months in the jug verses 10 years? Do realize how far you can get burried for having a weed growing in your yard? One to many bullets in some places? For having a gun that is .1 of an inch to short? Smoking in the park? Far to many laws that make you guilty until proved innocent? God helps us all! You know when your arrested they can charge you with all the crimes they can thing of. You'll have to prove you didn't do it. A vindictive cop can charge you with any horrible thing. At your next job interview you'll be asked" have you ever been arrested? and if so for what"? You'll have to answer. You won't like it. I don't even like to think about it. The goverment is not your friend anymore than the bank or the credit card company is. I am a very law abiding guy but I figure all it takes is being in the wrong place at the wrong time and I will be a newly minted enemy of the state - in a twinkling. When they enact the "Fairness Doctrine" to punish free speach on the radio I figure they will be sending SWAT teams into our basements and atticks for listening to shortwave radio - a criminal activity. Tin foil hat my buttissimo! I bet 99% of everyone on this board is currently breaking some kind of law right now. Most likely one you've never even heard of! Like mixing gin and wine coolers!
Nicky Santoro
Member
I live in New Jersey. We have the kind of police the people apparently want. We elect petty tyrants. They recruit petty tyrants as their enforcers.
I answered B, but with a added point.
When B is true but the good cops cover for the bad apples the answer turns to C at best.
If B is the case and the good cops expose/eject the bad apples then they are on the way to A being applicable to them.
When B is true but the good cops cover for the bad apples the answer turns to C at best.
If B is the case and the good cops expose/eject the bad apples then they are on the way to A being applicable to them.
ProguninTN
Member
Most Good, with a Few Bad Ones
I believe the above is most accurate.
I believe the above is most accurate.
cassandrasdaddy
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"Unfortunately, the fact that cops are often viewed by normal, law-abiding people as unpredictable and potentially dangerous, and therefore best avoided entirely is a pretty clear indicator there is something very wrong with the way cops enforce the laws and/or the laws themselves."
who gets to define normal?and law abiding?
could it b e more a reflection on the minority of folks that think this way than it is a reflection on the cops? or is it that i ran outa foil making me think this way?
who gets to define normal?and law abiding?
could it b e more a reflection on the minority of folks that think this way than it is a reflection on the cops? or is it that i ran outa foil making me think this way?
Most professional positions have a protect your own policy: LEO's, Doctors, Lawyers, Judges, Security people, etc. It is terribly wrong and I think the ones that believe that think their job is more important than having a moral sense of right and wrong, or just plain lacking backbone! Most of the LEO's that I have come across have been civil and doing their duty, but it does seem now that they think everyone is guilty of something while on the job. I would have to give them a B.
cassandrasdaddy
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not bad
70% above 19%below 10 % in the middle better than i expected given the vocal nature of the minority view
70% above 19%below 10 % in the middle better than i expected given the vocal nature of the minority view
IDriveB5
Member
Id say they are like any other group of people.
Mostly good, with a few bad apples.
Most of the LEOs I deal with (off duties working at the bar I am security at) are decent people.
Mostly good, with a few bad apples.
Most of the LEOs I deal with (off duties working at the bar I am security at) are decent people.
gc70
Member
Several comments have been made about cops being bad because they enforce "unconstitutional" laws. Based on the extremely divergent views I have seen here on THR about what is or is not constitutional, the last thing I would want is for every cop to be making up the law as they went based on their own individual views of the Constitution.
Rem700SD
Member
True story. I applied to a major metropolitan PD, and worked my way through the process. I used a former co-worker of mine as an LEO reference. I made it all the way through the polygraph, background, etc. I didn't make it through the psychological interview. No explanation given. It was for the best in hindsite as I don't think being an LEO would have suited me.
Ironically, my LEO reference was busted 6 months later for receiving "services" from a prostitute while pulling guard duty for a third party while in his squad car. Nothing wrong with moonlighting as a cop, but getting serviced certainly is....
Anyway, it kind of makes me wonder about the hiring process...
Dan
Ironically, my LEO reference was busted 6 months later for receiving "services" from a prostitute while pulling guard duty for a third party while in his squad car. Nothing wrong with moonlighting as a cop, but getting serviced certainly is....
Anyway, it kind of makes me wonder about the hiring process...
Dan
Deanimator
Member
Not all that unusual. Cleveland cops have been caught repeatedly working as "security" at drug and gambling houses. There was a fairly large scandal over it, in the late '80s, I believe.
Glockfan.45
member
I voted for option #2. I do belive most LEOs are good and noble folk who would like to do the right thing. When reacting with them I show them the same level of respect and courtesy they show me. NO BETTER and no worse.
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