The Press Check a disscusion

[easyg]

Because from a young age I was taught that a weapon should be considered loaded until checked.

Because I'm fallible.

Because it takes only a second to be sure.

Okay, I agree with all of that.
But you said that you press-check "when I put it on, or take it off, or pick it up, or put it down".

So you press-check it and verify that it is loaded and then holster it on your side.
Now at the end of the day you take it out of the holster to put it away.
Do you press-check again even though it has been holstered on your side all day, and you had already verified that it is loaded before you holstered it?

If you just checked your pistol by doing a press-check, and then you set it down on the table, bent down to tie your shoe, would you do another press-check after tying your shoe and picking up your pistol again?

 

[MyGreenGuns]

I loaded my (XD), released the slide, removed the mag and holstered the pistol. Then pressed another round into the mag and inserted it securely (back) in the pistol.

^I'm w/ you Ohio. I was taught to to a press check but it seems unneccessary. My XD is ALWAYS loaded, I dont question it. If there were a doubt, I'd clear the weapon and reload.

I've had an improperly seated magazine fail to chamber a round before. things happen.

^Then when he pulled the mag to top it off, the mag would still be full.

Because it takes only a second to be sure.

^I check it as often as you. And I live alone w/ a dog. (But I HAVE locked my keys in my car/truck various times.)

 

[Derek Zeanah]

So you press-check it and verify that it is loaded and then holster it on your side.
Now at the end of the day you take it out of the holster to put it away.
Do you press-check again even though it has been holstered on your side all day, and you had already verified that it is loaded before you holstered it?

Yes.

If you just checked your pistol by doing a press-check, and then you set it down on the table, bent down to tie your shoe, would you do another press-check after tying your shoe and picking up your pistol again?

Yes. Every time I touch it. If it's in my hand and I've let my mind wander to something else, I check it again to be sure.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I will win.

Anyways, press checks. If you think they're dangerous, I'd like to hear why. If you think they're useless, I think your wrong. I have been trained to check the chamber, regardless of how sure you are that a round chambered. Don't know who said it earlier, but a simple press check is a much better option than a tap, rack, bang when you only want a bang.

Anyone with proper training should have no issues with a press check. That said, when civilians carry weapons, I'm a firm believer in remaining in your own comfort zone.

You took my comment by itself and did not read the entire discussion:

I was responding to this comment:

Shawn Dodson: I perform a "battle readiness check" by feel after I load my pistols. I retract the slide slightly, using the overhand method, and feel for the presence of a chambered cartridge with my pinky finger. I exercise this tactile "battle readiness check" in case I wish to use it during a gunfight.

My comment was this:

I do the press check to ensure proper chambering and extraction of the round at home before I put it into my holster before I walk out the door with it. DURING the gunfight is not the time to be doing the press check.

I'll tell you what, let's stand face to face, 7 yards apart and wait for the buzzer. When the buzzer sounds, I will draw my pistol (which I press checked before I put it in my holster for the day), aim it at you and pull the trigger. When the buzzer sounds, you draw your pistol, perform the press check during the gunfight, and then point it at me and pull the trigger. And you SERIOUSLY are telling me that you will win the gunfight? Do you have a bridge in your back yard you are going to sell me as well?

There is a reason the military (Army and Navy anwyay), as part of our training, requires a person to draw a pistol with two rounds in the magazine, fire the two rounds, drop the empty magazine, insert the loaded magazine, release the slide and fire two more rounds, all within 6 seconds. The reason is DURING the gunfight is not the time to be press checking the chambered round.

Now, if you are under cover, and in no danger of being shot, and you are preparing to exit cover and ENTER the gun fight....then sure... do your press check. But I ain't going to do it if I am in the process of defending myself. If I press checked the gun before I left for the day, and the only place the gun as been since then is in my holster on my belt, I see absolutely no reason to press check the gun again if I should need to use it.

 

[Fiv3r]

I always press check or use some form of visual test to see if ANY gun I handle is loaded or not.

It only takes half a second. I have a small child in the house. I have guns to protect her and my wife. Gun safety starts and stops with me. I do everything I can possibly do in order make sure the tools I have brought into my house are as safe as possible. The consequences could be terrible.

I press check my Glock before it goes on my belt, before I put it in the safe, before I do ANYTHING with it. It's a visual reminder to show me that the gun is at the ready.

 

[easyg]

So you press-check it and verify that it is loaded and then holster it on your side.
Now at the end of the day you take it out of the holster to put it away.
Do you press-check again even though it has been holstered on your side all day, and you had already verified that it is loaded before you holstered it?

Yes.

If you just checked your pistol by doing a press-check, and then you set it down on the table, bent down to tie your shoe, would you do another press-check after tying your shoe and picking up your pistol again?

Yes. Every time I touch it. If it's in my hand and I've let my mind wander to something else, I check it again to be sure.

Sounds like a mental condition to me.
Like OCD.

I'm not calling you crazy, but there's just no logical reason for such checks in those situations.

 

[Skylerbone]

Better spread that gun safety around the house. Gun safety started with me but continued with my wife and children.

 

[Paul Gomez]

It's an oldie but a goodie: The Two loudest sounds in the world are 'click' when you expect a 'bang' and a 'bang' when you expect a 'click'.

I inspect every round of ammunition before I load it into my carry mags. I function test every gun and every magazine that I intend to carry with that gun with the ammunition that I intend to carry before I consider it suitable for daily use. Yes, even when it's a Glock. And, yes, even when it is 'BigName X' brand ammunition. I've seen enough Federal and Winchester and Remington and Speer duty ammo make it to the firing line with inverted primers, improperly formed projectiles and damaged brass that I take nothing for granted.

To load my pistol, I draw, or drive, the gun to full extension and then retract to my reloading position. Why? It is one more correct repetition of the primary motor skill for fighting with a handgun and one more rep on shifting from full extension to the reload position.

From there, I index and draw a mag from my normal carry position, just behind my left hip, and bring it to centerline, where the butt of the gun is waiting for the magazine. I'm looking across my knuckles/through the trigger guard, I can glance at the edge of the mag well if need be and not lose information on what is happening around me. The gun is also positioned in a generally safe direction that allows me to move rapidly without covering the environment with my muzzle.

Once the magazine is seated, my hand continues up to the slide, grasps the cocking serrations, primarily with the last three fingers, and tugs the slide fully rearwards until it stops moving and my hand comes off the slide.

Then, I bring the pistol back within drawstroke, rebuild my grip and carry on. I see more messed up gun movement and messed up grips following the reload than any other time, so I take the time and make sure the correct things are being ingrained.

If I want to replace the -1 mag with a full mag, I perform a Reload With Retention and then top off the -1 mag and replace it in the mag pouch.

If I elect to Press Check, my approach is different for a couple of reasons. First, it must be Tactile, that is, 'By feel'. If it is simply a visual check, it requires you to Look At the Gun [which I really don't care about] and Have Enough Light to See [a bigger issue to me]. Furthermore, it should be a physically distinct method of manipulating the gun. I do not want to have to think about two different means of working the slide when I grasp it.

When I use the Overhand Grip to run the slide, I am attempting to tear the slide off of the frame. That is how I move the slide when loading it, reloading it, unloading it, clearing a Type 1, Type 2 or Type 3 stoppage. I am pretty sure that is not how anyone moves the slide to perform a chamber check.

To perform a Chamber Check, I bring the gun back to the same reload/manipulation position. I roll the slide inboard and grasp the cocking serrations with the thumb and social finger of my offhand and lay my index finger on the barrel hood at the ejection port. I pull the slide out of battery just enough to allow my index finger to fall onto the round of ammunition being extracted by the chamber. Of course, if no ammunition is present, my finger falls into the gun now open action.

This keeps the muzzle in a generally safe direction, allows for a visual and tactile check of the chamber and relies upon a physically distinct manipulation of the slide that is unlikely to be confused with one used for a very different skillset.

I don't have a video posted dealing with the Press Check yet but here's one on Positioning of the Gun for Reloads that touches on several of these ideas.

 

[ohio shooter]

Another thing I didn't mention is the slide I do press forward to ensure it has returned to battery. I to have small children in my home and do not leave live rounds chambered but I do leave mags loaded in my biometric safe that only the wife or I can access. My daughter is 4 and a half and has already started learning proper firearms safety. We shoot the air rifle regularly and she can recite the big Four by heart. But I still don't leave firearms lay out. And I feel comfortable with my procedure that I will get BANG and not CLICK. If the click happens then that's where your awareness of you surrounding come to play. I may be paranoid but I constancy look for good cover through my day to day I hear click I ain't stupid I dive and then slap rack bang. Just throwing that one out there.

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

You took my comment by itself and did not read the entire discussion:

I was responding to this comment:

Shawn Dodson: I perform a "battle readiness check" by feel after I load my pistols. I retract the slide slightly, using the overhand method, and feel for the presence of a chambered cartridge with my pinky finger. I exercise this tactile "battle readiness check" in case I wish to use it during a gunfight.

My comment was this:

I do the press check to ensure proper chambering and extraction of the round at home before I put it into my holster before I walk out the door with it. DURING the gunfight is not the time to be doing the press check.

I'll tell you what, let's stand face to face, 7 yards apart and wait for the buzzer. When the buzzer sounds, I will draw my pistol (which I press checked before I put it in my holster for the day), aim it at you and pull the trigger. When the buzzer sounds, you draw your pistol, perform the press check during the gunfight, and then point it at me and pull the trigger. And you SERIOUSLY are telling me that you will win the gunfight? Do you have a bridge in your back yard you are going to sell me as well?

There is a reason the military (Army and Navy anwyay), as part of our training, requires a person to draw a pistol with two rounds in the magazine, fire the two rounds, drop the empty magazine, insert the loaded magazine, release the slide and fire two more rounds, all within 6 seconds. The reason is DURING the gunfight is not the time to be press checking the chambered round.

Now, if you are under cover, and in no danger of being shot, and you are preparing to exit cover and ENTER the gun fight....then sure... do your press check. But I ain't going to do it if I am in the process of defending myself. If I press checked the gun before I left for the day, and the only place the gun as been since then is in my holster on my belt, I see absolutely no reason to press check the gun again if I should need to use it.

You took those three little words way too literally. I thought I emphasized the sarcasm. I guess I didn't. The phrase "I will win " was the only thing directed your way, and it was just a bit of humor.

Oh and by the way, if you've ever shot on a real range (Marine Corps) then I was the guy out there correcting your mistakes and teaching you the right way to shoot. We used to be called PMIs, and now go by CMTs. Teaching you when or when not to do a press check isn't why we run you through speed reloads.

I'm not going to fight with you on this, just know that my comment was only a joke.

 

[ohio shooter]

Aight navy & snow this is meant to be a meaningful discussion not a heated one. I just wanted to hear both sides of the road. And because of it I am considering adding a press check to my routine. For the fact of redundancy is never a bad thing and adding and extra chance to run the draw and stay up to date on practice which has been lacking as of late. So I do thank you all for both sides of the debate but its really not worth getting riled up over.

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

Aight navy & snow this is meant to be a meaningful discussion not a heated one. I just wanted to hear both sides of the road. And because of it I am considering adding a press check to my routine. For the fact of redundancy is never a bad thing and adding and extra chance to run the draw and stay up to date on practice which has been lacking as of late. So I do thank you all for both sides of the debate but its really not worth getting riled up over.

Check my posts my man. No one on this side is riled up.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

 

[easyg]

And because of it I am considering adding a press check to my routine.

You current routine is just fine....

"As we were getting ready to leave my house I loaded my Glock, released the slide removed the mag and holstered the pistol. Then pressed another round into the mag and inserted it securely back in the pistol."

Press-checking after chambering a round and then topping off your magazine is pointless.

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

You current routine is just fine....

"As we were getting ready to leave my house I loaded my Glock, released the slide removed the mag and holstered the pistol. Then pressed another round into the mag and inserted it securely back in the pistol."

Press-checking after chambering a round and then topping off your magazine is pointless.

What if you didn't load a full mag?

Devil's Advocate here, so no need to get nuts.

 

[easyg]

What if you didn't load a full mag?

What? you don't carefully inspect and count every round you place in your magazine???

Of course, you could adjust your routine slightly....
try this:

First load only one round in a magazine, insert that magazine inside the pistol, and chamber the round.

Next remove the magazine from the pistol and then load the now empty magazine with additional rounds.

After the magazine is loaded place it back inside the pistol.

Then you will have a round in the chamber and a loaded magazine in the pistol and you will never need to press-check even once.

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

What? you don't carefully inspect and count every round you place in your magazine???

Of course, you could adjust your routine slightly....
try this:

First load only one round in a magazine, insert that magazine inside the pistol, and chamber the round.

Next remove the magazine from the pistol and then load the now empty magazine with additional rounds.

After the magazine is loaded place it back inside the pistol.

Then you will have a round in the chamber and a loaded magazine in the pistol and you will never need to press-check even once.

Or I could simply do a press check. I have yet to see anything to convince me there is anything negative about doing one.

And no, I only inspect my ammo when I buy it. Then it goes into rotation. If my carry gun only fired pristine ammo, it wouldn't be my carry gun.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I'm thinking that if someone is shooting at me, or about to shoot at me, a press check is just about the last thing that I am going to do. Pulling the trigger all the way to the rear with the gun pointed at the perp will tell me quick enough if there was a round in the chamber, which I will have double-checked before leaving the house.

You go ahead and do your press check during a gunfight, I'll do a trigger pull and we'll see who wins.

I may have already performed a tactical reload and then shot the pistol to slide lock. When I perform the subsequent Combat Reload (using the partially depleted magazine I retained from the tactical reload) the slide lock might be jarred when I seat the magazine and the slide unexpectedly goes into battery. (In this situation, with a fully loaded magazine during a Combat Reload, I simply Roll & Rack and drive-on. I may eject a cartridge in the process but I know my pistol ready.) With a partially depleted magazine I want to conserve the ammo I have left but I also want to be sure there's a cartridge in the chamber for when I get back in the fight - hence the ability to perform a tactile "battle-readiness check" if time and conditions permit.

I'll tell you what, let's stand face to face, 7 yards apart and wait for the buzzer. When the buzzer sounds, I will draw my pistol (which I press checked before I put it in my holster for the day), aim it at you and pull the trigger. When the buzzer sounds, you draw your pistol, perform the press check during the gunfight, and then point it at me and pull the trigger.

When the buzzer sounds I won't be standing there anymore. I'll move dynamically off the line, draw and gun you down right where you stand because that's my immediate action for a face-to-face confrontation.

 

[Hangingrock]

I for one don’t suffer from Compulsive Press Check Disorder that’s not to say I don’t Press Check. Multiple times in one twenty-four hour period seems to be excessive. It’s almost under the concept of to much of a good thing. Being objective we are all subject to the consequences of our actions and or lack of action.

 

[Nushif]

What actually strikes me the most in this discussion is not the press check and whatnot.

It's this compulsion ..

"Because that's the way I was taught" is not a good reason to be doing something. You have to do something because you *understand why* you are doing it.
The same goes for "I do it because so and so does it." *You* have to have the working knowledge in any kind of process to know *why* you are doing things the way you do.

Actually I think having too much of a routine gets dangerous if taken to some of the extremes I have seen on this board.

In my case I sometimes to a press check, using a variety of ways to just pull the freakin' slide back and look for a cartridge when the slide felt odd going forward. It's not rocket science, Don't stuff your finger in front of the barrel and take a look. The angle of your finger, phase of the moon and your positioning relative the magnetic north is not the point of this exercise. If the slide rides forward smooth and I can hear the right sound, why check it?

I understand a certain routine, but without a meaningful understanding of why you're doing it, it's more religious than useful.

 

[Skylerbone]

Sounds about right. Any disconnect between knowledge and application results in the same, an educated fool (no offense meant anyone specific). Picture the mathematician who does not know when to apply the formulas engrained in his head. The real world is dynamic, making true routine impossible to count on. Well put, Nushif.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

What actually strikes me the most in this discussion is not the press check and whatnot.

It's this compulsion ..

I'm going to assume this was directed at me and throw a response out here. I'm also going to assume you're not talking about the mechanics of the various ways one can check the condition of a firearm; rather you're talking about when and why one checks to see if a firearm is loaded.

There seem to be two extremes in this discussion: I check the condition of a firearm essentially every time I touch it, whereas easyg loads his once and trusts that it's loaded whether it's on his bedside or on his hip. Easyg seems happy with his setup -- "I loaded it, and I'm certain nothing has changed in the hours/days/weeks/months since I loaded it, and I'm willing to bet my life on the accuracy of both my memory and the fact that nothing else has happened to change the status of my weapon."

I think this is being a bit more complacent than is prudent. The consequences of being wrong about the condition of a gun can literally be death. "Accidental discharges" almost always happen with weapons someone was sure were unloaded, but the consequences of pulling a self-defense pistol only to discover there's no round in the chamber (or worse, that the magazine wasn't even loaded in the pistol) are equally harsh.

It is important to determine the condition of the pistol one is handling. It's also important to re-determine the condition of a pistol if one becomes distracted. Here's a quick example of where our different approaches might play out differently:

Let's say you work dry-fire drills in the hope that your skills are increasing rather than decreasing between classes, as all of us should. You unload your carry pistol, insure it's safe however you feel the need, and start your dry fire exercises. In the middle of this your wife calls, and you spend too much time on the phone talking about mom, Thanksgiving plans, and something-or-another that's on the Honey Do list that you didn't really pay attention to last time either. Now, before you go back to dry-fire practice do you recheck the pistol, or not?

I say yes -- I was distracted, I'm fallible, and I'm not willing to risk the consequences of a negligent discharge over the second it will take to check the status of the pistol. Easyg says "no" -- he knows he unloaded his arm and there are no gremlins in his house to change the status of his pistol.

Do you check? Why or why not? Is that being overly paranoid, or is it taking an unnecessary risk?

Here's another one. You get home, unholster your gun, leave it on the coffee table beside your bed, and go to sleep. You awaken to the sound of breaking glass, and against the advice of the folks in the S&T forum you decide to investigate. As you pick up your pistol, do you check its status just to be sure, or do you simply trust that it's loaded as you didn't remember unloading it?

In each case, the consequences for being wrong may be huge, and the cost to make absolutely, positively, no-doubt-about-it-sure is about one second of your life.

To me there's an obvious choice. Every time I pick up, put down, holster, or unholster an arm I check. If I'm handling one and I get distracted, I check.

Call it compulsive, OCD, paranoid, superstitious, or whatever you want. I'd much rather err on the side of caution here.

Edit: Actually, I take that back. As I think back I don't tend to check the condition when I unholster, though I think I probably should as a general rule.

 

[Nushif]

What I was getting at is the dire and absolute ultimate need to verify the condition of a weapon after you have put it in the state it is in.

A "press check" for a weapon that you are storing is not so much a "press check." It is to verify the unloaded nature of the gun.
The same goes for a gun you just somehow picked up. You're not "press checking" the gun. You're checking to see its unloaded status.

A "press check" is only ever that if it's done on a weapon that is assumed to be loaded and remains in that state. As in, for instance a bedside gun. If I checked it yesterday, have not touched it since, open my drawer (which I don't have) and check to see if it is loaded, while assuming it is ... that is a press check.
If I am standing in an armory receiving a weapon and I check to see if it is unloaded that's not a press check.

To give you an example of what I would consider a compulsive press check is this:

I am sitting in my favourite watering hole and the delicious wilted spinach salad is on its way out. I do the deed, and as I get back up and leave the stall I pull my weapon from my holster and ... press check it.
Now, why do I ask did I press check a weapon I am carrying with a magazine in it, loaded from this morning, simply because I for all intents and purposes sat down?
Another one:
I am at a range, shooting at my beloved paper target. I slap a magazine into my gun, actuate the slide forward in whatever way I do this and ... press check it. Why?! I will know for very sure whether it chambered a round the moment I take aim and hit the bullseye, or not.
Now, let's say I do everything the same up to the point of actuating my slide forward ... and it acts funny, I don't know, it's slow, sounds funny, odd, or it just doesn't feel right. I press check it! for good reason! Because there might be something wrong.


But more specifically what I am driving at is this debate as to how one ought to position one's fingers, or whether or not to stick the finger down into the chamber of the gun or whatnot.

So your assumption that I was talking about specifically you is not entirely accurate.

What I propose is this:

A press check is done when something unusual happens with a gun. This can be a slide being slow, it sounding funny and just not feeling right, such as while loading on a galloping horse. To make sure that when one gets in range it doesn't go click.

Checking a gun for safety reasons is an entirely different animal.

Furthermore, I propose that anyone who handles a gun a certain way "because they were taught to" are indeed doing it for the wrong reasons.
I do not point my gun at my wife or my dogs while dry-firing because I like them. Not because some guy said to not do it.
I leave my booger hooker off the bang switch because I don't like NDs. Not because otherwise the big mean people will yell at me.

And I do think that very often we breed "religious" gun handlers, rather than "enlightened" ones. Why? Because instead of explaining to them on the first day at the range that pointing a loaded gun at people means they might kill them ... we yell them down or boot them off the range. Or because we ingrain in them that "the guide rod design on the 1911 is there to make the press check easier. This makes them a superior design" rather than explaining that the guide rod design on a full size 1911 just happens to facilitate this great way to verify the gun did what it was supposed to.

You see the difference here?

So was this directed at you? I don't know, you don't seem like a religious gun handler.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

^Then when he pulled the mag to top it off, the mag would still be full.

I hardly ever top off magazines.

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

I can't agree with the idea of some assuming/hoping/"knowing" their weapon is loaded/unloaded. I train my Marines to assume their weapon is the opposite of what it should be every time they grab it. The reason is very simple to understand, and it's not "because I was trained to". I wouldn't grab a weapon out of the safe and just start cleaning it either.

Also, why not do a press check while shooting at paper? Hearing a click should never be the way you verify a round was chambered, at the range or not. If it's something I'd do away from the range, why not do it while at the range? There's a difference between unnecessary and pointless.

I'm not saying everyone should be doing press checks, but nobody should be saying anyone shouldn't either.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I use this process when I load my pistols:

1) verify chamber is empty
2) put slide into battery
3) seat the magazine
4) roll & rack
5) perform a battle-readiness check
6) perform a tactical reload
7) holster the pistol
8) top off the magazine I removed from the pistol and put it in my carrier

I unload as follows:

1) remove magazine
2) place magazine between the ring & pinky fingers of my firing hand
3) roll, rack & lock open the slide
4) look and feel chamber to answer the question: "is it loaded?"
5) retrieve ejected cartridge (and put it with my training ammo)

I normally store my pistols loaded (I don't unload unless I have to). When I "jock up" for CCW I perform the following:

1) battle-readiness check
2) remove the magazine and verify it's loaded to capacity
3) seat the magazine
4) holster my pistol