The Pro Gun argument to end all arguments?

[myrockfight]

Hey guys. I am always trying to convince people that guns are good things and carrying is even better. Of course, like everyone else, I come across those who were firmly against guns and/or firmly against carrying. But I have come across an argument that they cannot refute. I haven't met anyone who has been able to argue against it, or was willing. Even if they had already taken the opposite side.


When asked why I carry or own a firearm, I say, "Because if someone I loved was being raped or murdered and I didn't stop it, I wouldn't be able to forgive myself knowing I am responsible and intelligent enough to carry and use a firearm. Would you? Would you be able to sit idle while someone you love was being raped or murdered right in front of you? Would you be able to forgive yourself knowing that you could have gotten a firearm and the training that would have prevented that from happening. Because when I think about my family and my loved ones, I can hardly bear the thought of something like that happening to any of them. Quite frankly, I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if that happened to anyone in my presence knowing that I had the opportunity to keep it from happening."

It works because first of all, it is the truth. Secondly, it personalizes the issue and really makes them think what it actually means to them on a personal level. I honestly don't think most people who are against the 2nd Amendment or our right to carry have thought about it on a personal level. (Or at least from that angle).


This has been the most effective argument I have found. It has also helped me convince a few people to get their carry license. This weekend I am taking a friend of mine to the concealed weapon permit class. We used to date and she was completely freaked out when she found out I carry. Funny how people's thoughts can be changed with a short conversation. However, it amazes me when it can't be changed after a thesis' worth of arguments are discussed.


What arguments have you guys found any specific argument to carry that works all the time, or close to it?

 

[Big45]

More effective is not engaging in an argument.

 

[myrockfight]

"More effective is not engaging in an argument." -Big45

I am not using the term as an emotional spewing of words. Rather, a reason or explanation. I agree with you completely.

 

[Picard]

That's a good one. I might have to use that on some anti's. Thanks for the advice.

 

[jahwarrior]

i don't try and convince anyone of anything. if a person chooses not to own a gun, that's up to them. it's not up to me to try and convince them otherwise, just as they have no right to convince me to lay down my arms. therefore, i don't engage in these sort of arguments. if someone does make a negative comment in regards to me carrying (i've been open carrying a lot lately), i simply turn and say: "welcome to america! are you enjoying your stay?" then walk away.

 

[psyopspec]

it's not up to me to try and convince them otherwise, just as they have no right to convince me to lay down my arms.

Actually, both parties have the right to try to convince the other. Assuming things stay civil in your discourse, I believe this situation would pertain to another point I saw in the BoR somewhere...

if someone does make a negative comment in regards to me carrying (i've been open carrying a lot lately), i simply turn and say: "welcome to america! are you enjoying your stay?" then walk away.

Not choosing to "engage in these sort of arguments" is one thing, but to make a wisecrack and walk away is utterly counterproductive to those gun owners who'd like the opportunity to discuss 2A with any fence sitters whose curiosity is piqued by our ownership. A comment like yours could easily turn someone who's undecided into an anti-gunner that thinks people who own/carry guns are jerks (to put it mildy).

OT, Myrockfight, I've actually used a point like this multiple times. Whether you win anyone over or not, it's a good way to get them to see your perspective and get the wheels turning in their own mind.

 

[Pilgrim]

I have "Gun Free Home" stickers to give to people who are proud they don't own a gun.

Pilgrim

 

[myrockfight]

^LOL. That is not right man.

 

[SSN Vet]

Would you be able to forgive yourself knowing that you could have gotten a firearm and the training that would have prevented that from happening?

argument works for me...but fails to recognize that we have become a nation of lazy (let the government do it for me because I don't want to break a sweat) self centered (I can sacrifice those I claim to love as long as my own tail gets spared), spineless cowards!!!!

the missing ingrediant = moral fortitude

 

[myrockfight]

but fails to recognize that we have become a nation of lazy (let the government do it for me because I don't want to break a sweat) self centered (I can sacrifice those I claim to love as long as my own tail gets spared), spineless cowards!!!!

I was thinking the lazy thing too. People just want to lay the responsibility of protecting themselves on someone else and not worry about it. Everyone takes their trip to Happyland and forgets about what happens in the real world.

 

[MedWheeler]

"I have a divine, God-given right to defend myself, my mate, and my offspring."

Not too long ago, a friend of my wife asked me why I insist on wearing a safety belt whenever I am driving (or riding) somewhere (I was giving her a ride.) I replied: "because, if something happened to me, forcing "Zhana" to have to go on without me, in this new country (she's from Europe), devastated, alone and grieving, she should not, on top of that, have to learn that I did not do everything possible to prevent it."

 

[SCPigpen]

SSN Vet,
You must be a carpenter cuz you hit the nail on the head!!

 

[amprecon]

As far as I'm concerned, there is no argument. Whether some person says I have the right or not, I'm going to possess whatever means necessary, legal or not, that will provide me the most effective means of defending my family and myself. Where our personal protection is involved, there can be no law made that will deny me that.

 

[another okie]

In my wallet are an insurance card, a CPR certification, and CCW permit. That doesn't mean I'm looking to get into an accident or find someone having a stroke or to get into a gunfight. The Boy Scouts taught me to be prepared.

 

[TooTaxed]

There have been a number of studies of criminals jailed for committing crimes with guns, to determine where they get their guns, which ones they prefer, how they choose their targets, ect. Do a web search and you can probably find some...one major study of nearly 2,000 convicts in Federal penetentiaries in ten states was done in the 1980's, and I participated in one in California about 2003 (20 convicts imprisoned for crimes using guns).

A few basic findings: Criminals want to "do their thing" quickly and safely and get away before police show up. They avoid houses and victims they think are likely to be armed...they don't want to get shot or held for the police, they don't want noisy shooting which attracts attention and police. They will select targets they think are not likely to have arms. That includes homes for burglary. They favor stricter gun laws, because only law-abiding people will obey them, which means more unarmed targets and safety for the criminals! (Conclusion: Gun ownership is a deterrent to crime.)

Other findings: They get their guns "on the street" by buying, trading, and stealing from other criminals. They don't get them from gunshows, pawnshops, or licensed dealer "loopholes"...why? Because they can't pass the required background checks, and they don't want to attract attention by trying. Of the 20 prisoners my group interviewed, three had stolen their guns from police!

Criminals prefer pistols...easy to conceal and use. Assault weopons are large and bulky,difficult to conceal, attract attention, and make a lot of noise. According to the annual FBI Report on Crime in the United States to Congress, assault weopons were used in only one quarter of one percent of crimes...

Another interesting thing if you care to research it: Whenever restrictive gun laws are enacted, total crime in that area increases. Any time a law is enacted making it easier for citizens to have guns...for example, a Right To Carry law...total crime decreases.

Another interesting fact to ponder...all of our massacres have occured in recognised "gun free" zones. Why? because the bad guys want to slaughter as many helpless people as possible before armed people show up to stop them. It would have been nice to have a citizen with a concealed carry in the area...as the lady did in the church shooting just this last December, after only two people had been shot.

 

[dalepres]

I've used the OP's argument in discussions about carrying a gun. Usually those who object mumble something incomprehensable and change the subject. The point is, logic rarely wins over emotion. They just hide from the logic. That doesn't mean to quit trying and to quit being reasonable and intelligent in our discussions; it just means that logic, reason, and intelligence are only rarely effective in an argument.

 

[hso]

The OP's argument both reaches people on an intellectual and emotional level. An important lesson to learn when dealing with a gun prohibitionist.

 

[myrockfight]

dalepres and hso,

I am glad you guys said that. After writing my post, I've thought about it more. It really does just appeal to people who make decisions based on emotion. I never really thought about it like that for some reason. I wish I had known that before now. Now it is much easier to distinguish people who are emotionally driven and put a discussion in those terms.

I hope that helps other people recognize that. But there are some people who you can't make anything make sense I guess because you can't appeal to them logically or emotionally. How in the heck do you persuade them?

 

[dmftoy1]

I think your argument is a pretty good one.

I never try to "force" my opinion on anyone else and just terminate the conversation if I see it "escalating" but I had pretty good luck around here with a newspaper clipping.

A few years back at a local rest stop a lady was beaten to death. The article about the crime documented how she had been beaten over a 15-20 minute period until she finally died. (I wonder how many people passed through that rest area in that timeframe?) It was a very very horrific crime. I showed one of my co-workers (who was anti-gun) the article one day at lunch and said to her something similiar to what you're using along with the question as to whether that lady would've at least "tried" to use a gun to defend herself if one was available. I don't know if it changed her mind or not . . .but it definately made her think for a couple of days.