Need help with gun control arguments.

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trimation

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I know there are a lot of extremely intelligent people on this message forum and I am hoping some of you can help me out.

My girlfriend is in a debate class at our local junior college and she has a debate coming up in class about gun control. As soon as she told me about it I knew I had to get information for her. I would love to send her into that class with some awesome arguments against gun control.

I am really hoping that with her arguments she can even enlighten some people in her class as to the myths of more gun legislation.

So please, if you would, give me some good arguments to give her.

I thank you in advance.

Trimation
 
It's about 75% of what is discussed in "General" and "Legal and Political". Read the forums! Search the archives!

Don't be TOO surprised that people aren't jumping up to do your (or your gal-pal's) work for you.

Best of luck.

Matt
 
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Time is short and I need to go get some Z'zzzz's.

I'll say this tho .... get her to ask what happens with gun control .... regarding the ''regulation'' of firearms with criminals. These are people for whom ''the law'' means squat ... and so are the ones that require ''control''.... but what control will ever regulate what they have!? Eh? Guns can and will - always be available ... thru ''channels''.

Relate that if possible to the HUGE majority of law-abiding, gun-owning citizens ... who represent NO threat whatsoever. And who also claim and deserve the RIGHT to be able to defend themselves.

Gun control people invariably have their agenda ''base about apex''!! They think that by controlling or denying the law abiding person the right to bear arms ... they are somehow ''improving'' things for mankind! Hogwash!!

Ask those who seek control ... how they intend to redress this imbalance! No amount of extra laws or controls will affect the criminal fraternity .... one iota! Unless someone can prove that to me .... incontravertibly!!


Gotta crash!!
 
who is the user on this board that makes all of the 2nd amendment pictures and posters? I can't remeber his user name and I want to print some of his pictures.

Thanks
 
oleg volk. www.a-human-right.com

good common-sence arguments.

Otherwise, download the gunfacts PDF file, search for it on google. hard facts make for a good argument, but the combination of hard facts and common-sence make you unstoppable.
 
Preaching to the choir ...

Gun control is fundamentally flawed because on the one hand, would-be gun banners want to do so because people cannot be trusted with guns, but on the other hand, doing so assumes that miscreants can be trusted to obey the laws. For some great examples of why it does not work, challenge them to do a search of the British newspapers and try to find where Britain has become a crime- free paradise since their gun ban.
 
This would be far easier (and you'd probably have a lot more replies) if you gave us some hint of the arguments she's going to face.

Are they going to talk about the 2A at all? Is the debate scripted? Are the questions/topics thought out before hand?

We need to know more to help you.

You could just start with this basic premise: Gun control laws, like all laws, really only apply to the law-abiding, by definition. Most law-abiding citizens actually don't really need laws to keep them in line. I, personally, am not going to go murder anyone. Not because it is illegal, but because its just not right.

Criminals (who by definition break the law) will not be hindered by gun control laws anymore than they would be laws against rape, murder and robbery.

We have laws against rape, murder and robbery, so according to the logic of gun-control proponents, there should be no murder, rape, nor robbery. Yet there is. Why? Because criminals do not heed the law. Again, by very definition, a criminal simply will not abide by law. Such is his nature.

I, a law-abiding citizen, am not going to murder anyone even if I possess a .50 Browning automatic, any flavor of "assault weapon," grenades, or whatever. The use of the firearm is dependent upon the character of the operator.

If "assault weapons" truly are so bad and kill so many people, then why the heck do the police and military have them? Oh, the reply will go, they use them for good, to combat criminals! And law-abiding citizens would not???

There's a start...


Are you anywhere near Sac, BTW?


Drjones
 
There's always the Kennesaw Syndrome (Kennesaw Georgia) Gun ownership goes up in a given area crime goes down. It happens in CCW states also, don't know for sure what the reason is but I've got a good guess.
 
Drjones,

I am pretty close to Sac, I am in Modesto.

I am not really sure what kind of arguments she is going to face. I am just trying to get her some positive arguments against gun control.

I did go to the nra website and printed off some articles from there, I also printed something off of Oleg Volk's website (thanks again clubsoda).

The debate isn't scripted, and it will involve the 2nd amendment, so I have been printing off information on pro 2nd amendment arguments.

I am not "expecting" anyones help or trying to take the easy way out by having you guys do all the work for me. I am merely asking, I was up all night researching it myself.

I just didn't want to use my own words to fuel her arguments as I am not the best source for this sort of information.

Thanks

P.S. Thanks Elmer and semf, those were great links
 
Google up "John R. Lott" Mr. Lott is a statistician and has looked at the effects of gun control on crime. His first book "More Guns, Less Crime" is a classic though it is a little boring because of the statistics.

He writes regular op-ed pieces in a variety of publications.

GunFacts is a good place to start for facts.

Your question comes along every month or so. A THR search is a good palce to start. Buzz over the The firing Line and search that site also.

Good luck and keep us posted.
 
A syllabus of arguments:

Off the top of my head, here's the main categories of arguments:

Pro RKBA:

First Principles/Ethics:

- Right of effective means of self defense
- Right of self determination/Agency
- Responsibility for self preservation/defense

Constitutional:

- Right of Revolution
- Check on Tyranny/Ussurpation
- Mundane crime/self defense

Legal:

- The fact that law enforcement has no specific duty to protect anyone in particular

Anti-Genocide:

-170 million disarmed dead people can't be wrong! ;)

Utilitarian:

- CCW Crime studies
- England/Australian crime studies




Anti RKBA

{To be honest, I'm probably not going to do a good job on the anti side...I have a hard time empathising with arguments that don't hold water}

Social Theory:

- Humans cannot be trusted

Statist Theory:

- Power is the province of the State

Utilitarian Theory:

- Increase in prevalence of weapons is causally related to increase in crime.

Fear/Emotionalism Theory:

-I'm afraid, therefore someone should make it go away


It's For The Children(tm) Theory:

-The activities of adults should be curtailed to prevent theoretical harm to children.



Anyone wanna fill in the stuff I missed?
 
"Outlawing guns won't stop criminals from getting them. They'll just hide them in their regular cocaine and heroin shipments."
(In other words, prohibition didn't work for alcohol, doesn't work for drugs and won't work for guns)

If someone brings up the "x kids are killed by guns every day!" (usually quoted as something like 13)

This is true (12.9) but only if you include everyone 21 years old and younger as a "kid".

If you establish the cut off for children is 14, there were, on average, about 1 child killed with a firearm per day. Tragic, but more than six times as many were killed in vehicular accidents.

Quick figures on this:
Kids 1-14 killed in 2001 with firearms: 414 - rate of 1.1 per day
"Kids" 1-21 killed in 2001 with firearms: 4,723 - rate of 12.9 per day

"Kids" 15-21 killed in 2001 with firearms: 4,309 - rate of 11.8 per day

Kids 1-14 killed in 2001 with cars: 2,463 - rate of: 6.8 per day
"Kids" 1-21 killed in 2001 with cars: 10,303 - rate of: 28.2 per day.

Play with http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/output_options_10.html to check up on statistics.
 
Everything you need in one file:
http://www.gunfacts.info/

Gun Facts - Current Version
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Now, if you love freedom and need some ammunition to protect civil rights, then I'm here to help._ I am the author of Gun Facts, a 80 page e-book that explodes the most common gun control myths._ Download it, email it to your friends, politicians, and the local media._ Print copies and leave them on the city bus or local lunch counter._ Just read the copyright and don't charge anyone any money for this work.
Click to expand...
 
My arguments against "gun control" usually fall into one of three categories: Philosophical, Economic, and Practical.
From a philosophical standpoint, the basis for any country's gun control laws are that they simply don't TRUST their citizens with firearms (or a given subset of firearms), and that is simply inconsistent with any country that claims to be a democracy or a republic (ie. "government of the people, by the people").
From an economic standpoint, we need only to look at how expensive the War on Some Drugs has been, and what little we have to show for it all over the years; I certainly don't see any evidence that drugs are getting harder to get, but we are spending as much trying to "fight" them as it took to put a man on the moon :rolleyes:
From the practical standpoint, I like to also use the example of illicit drugs; if she said that "The way to stop people from getting marijuana (and you can substitute heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine, etc. for marijuana) is to simply make marijuana illegal" people would probably break out laughing. If she said that "The way to stop people from getting alcohol is to simply make alcohol illegal", those same people would probably fall out of their chairs laughing. Yet if she (or any one else says "The way to stop people from getting guns is simply to make guns illegal", there is enough of a logical "blind spot" in many people's minds that they will simply ACCEPT it, without bothering to actually think about it. If you want cocaine, you or your agent has to go all the way to the highlands of South America to get the base ingredient. If you want heroin, you or your agent has to go all the way to Afghanistan or the Golden Triangle in SE Asia to get the base ingredient. However, if you want a GUN, all you need to do is go down to the local hardware store, and you'll find all the ingredients you need to make not only your own firearm, but your own ammunition; I've built my own 12 gauge shotgun for less than $10 Canadian, just to prove to people how easy it is, and why gun control laws are NEVER going to stop criminals from getting guns. :)
 
Thanks all,

I've loaded her up with information and a few tips on presenting it. Let's hope it goes well. I will let you know what the outcome is.

Trimation
 
Another good resource book....

is Death by Gun Control by Aaron Zelman and Richard W. Stevens. The subtitle is "The Human Cost of Victim Disarmament"
They give all sorts of examples of disarmament being the first step taken by dictators and tyrants before implementing their genocidal plans.

Good Luck to your GF.

Holly
 
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