General HG Caliber For Field Use/Handgun Hunting/BUG For Bow Hunting/Hiking/Rural

[Markbo]

Since you are a 1911 fan, you might want to look into a .460 Rowland conversion. It's a beastie!

 

[CoRoMo]

After getting in between a black bear sow and one of her two cubs years ago, I've never entered to woods without my .357
I've also started carrying it while deer/elk hunting so that I might have the option to use it if I get a close enough encounter. None so far though.

 

[CoRoMo]

PC is doubling... sorry.

 

[Fishman777]

Let me preface what I'm about to say by making it clear that I'm not a hunter. I've read a lot of threads on the subject, but I recognize that this makes me little more than an "arm chair" hunter.

Based on what I've read, I would say that conventional wisdom dictates that you should use at least a .44 magnum in Grizzly/Brown Bear country. Penetration is the most important factor in dealing with big bears. .44 magnums have been known to kill Brown Bear as well as Polar Bear. The real question is are you a good enough marksman to do your part? In .44 magnum, I'd go for the 330 grain "Ruger-only" Buffalo Bore loads. I really don't think that I could shoot anything larger accurately enough in a life or death situation. I would use the gun as a *last* resort. If you don't get lucky and kill the critter before it starts to maul you, you may only escalate the situation by shooting at it. Where it may have mauled you and left you after it felt that you were no longer a threat, it will probably kill you if you hurt it badly enough. The best backup in brown bear country is a good friend with rifle or a shot gun loaded with slugs.

Based on what I've read, I'd consider the Buffalo Bore .357 magnum loads to be *adequate* for black bear (180 grain, 1500 ft/s, sectional density of .202). I would probably feel pretty safe with this, but recognize that a .44 magnum would be better.

I am not one of these bigger is always better shooters, but I recognize that bears are a helluva lot tougher than people. Just because you hear that someone had success taking out a Bear with a particular round doesn't mean that this roundb will always be adequate.

 

[TimboKhan]

For all around usefulness and shooting comfort, I am hard pressed to imagine anything better than the .357. I will say that I am biased, because I think the sun sets and rises on the .357 (at least for revolver calibers), but there is a very good reason for that.

 

[Markbo]

Yeah? What's that?

How many large game animals have you taken with a .357? Can you list them, their size and weight, distance shot, loads and where shot? In general I mean.... not a whole list, which obviously must be very long.

 

[Triple S]

I just got back from a hunting trip in MT and pretty much did everything that you stated was the intended purpose of your handgun requirements. We still hunted , hiked 10-15 miles per day in rural, rough (very) country, and I carried my 629 CL loaded with 310 Garrett Hammerheads for back up without any problems. After ordering a quality leather belt and a cross draw Galco holster, the gun did not feel too cumbersome for my hikes! I felt much better about being in Grizz/Lion/Wolf/Moose/etc country with the 629 and the 310 hammer heads. With the right belt and holster, it did not seem to slow me down!

 

[TimboKhan]

Yeah? What's that?

How many large game animals have you taken with a .357? Can you list them, their size and weight, distance shot, loads and where shot? In general I mean.... not a whole list, which obviously must be very long.

Cripes, why so confrontational, dude? It rises and sets with me because I like the cartridge, and I am certain that it will kill just about any deer that you can throw at it. I KNOW it will kill coyotes deader than a doornail, and I have shot several with the .357. Additionally, I like the accuracy of the round, and I like it's soft shooting characteristics. I carry a .357, and I keep a .357 by my bed at night. Evidently, you don't agree with my opinions such as they are. Whatever.

To further address the source of your confrontational attitude, when I said there is a very good reason for it rising and setting for me, I simply meant that it is a proven round. That I haven't slayed innumerable beasts with it doesn't take away from that. Bob Milek wrote an article back in the 60's (and reprinted recently) in which he says that the .357 is a great hunting round, and he actually had killed plenty with it. I understand that that was then and this is now, and that there are better hunting calibers available, but I think for an all around caliber it's the best. If you don't, don't buy one. What do I care?

Finally, I would point out that in a recent post you said:

Whatever happened to personal experience being THE gauge to go buy instead of what your imagination tells you??

With that in mind, my personal experience tells me that the .357 is the best possible all-around cartridge. I shoot it better than a .44mag, I think it is just as good as the 41/.44 specials, and I have absolutely no use for a .500. I have shot somewhere in the neighborhood of 5000 .357 rounds at paper, steel and flesh, and I have yet to be disappointed. If we bridge the gap into autos, I feel pretty much the same way about the .45 as I do the .357, although I also enjoy shooting 9mm, because it's cheap and fun. If you feel my that my imagination is getting away with me somehow, well, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[The Bushmaster]

This .357 magnum/.44 magnum war could go on forever. If you will note the graft above you will see that the .357 magnum is first by better then twice and the .44 magnum is second...Really guys...Pick one. I will agree with TimboKhan in that the .357 magnum is the more versitile of the two and the recoil can be handled by most people. I too, have taken large game with a SAA Colt .357 magnum. For me, the .44 magnum just takes too long to recover for a second shot where as I can fire several accurate .357 magnum rounds much faster. I really don't think you can go wrong with either calibre. Besides...Other then being a big state, what is left in Texas other then cattle...Colorado still has the big bears and large game animals. Yes I know. Texas has the Mule deer (are they still dieing out?)...Both calibres are good choices...

 

[Browning]

I'm kind of suprised by the .357 Mags lead in the poll.

I never realized how many people carry .357 Mags when they're in the field.

I kind of expected most people to be packing .44 Mags for some reason.

Although it's only been several days the .357 Mag is clearly the most popular, with the .44 Mag in second, the 10MM third, then the various large bore older revolver cartridges next and then hardly anyone using the medium bore auto-loader and the fairly new very large magnum cartridges at all.

 

[kmrcstintn]

two guns, 1 caliber, and a great variety of ammo for multiple needs; eg: Ruger GP100 w/ 6" barrel for hunting & deeper woods carry, Ruger SP101 w/ 3" barrel for hiking, working around the camp, backpacking, etc; both chambered in .357 magnum; lots of loads weighing 125 gr, 130 gr, 140 gr, 158 gr, 170 gr, 180 gr, 200 gr

 

[Eyesac]

I can't believe that 10mm is only third w/ 10 votes. 10mm is a great round, high capacity, good range of bullets and one in Glock or a Kimber would be real comfortable to carry compared to a revolver... Not to mention w/ the Glock, or a Kimber w/ the right coating that thing would be downright indestructable.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Browning....357 magnums are usually lighter, smaller, pretty powerful for their size and most capable. And you can still carry more ammunition. It doesn't suprise me a bit...Besides...I like them.

 

[Zach S]

I am an autoloader fan...so I said the 10mm. I want one myself. Real badly.

Same here. The only thing stopping me is money (well, lack of it) and more money (for a reloading press).

I'd prefer a 1911 platform. The .45/10mm glock frames just dont fit. A Para 16-40 with the chamber reamed to 10mm would be nice, heavy, but nice.

 

[Markbo]

Timbokhan... I was not trying to be at all confrontational. I was trying to understand where you were coming from. But you do sound a bit defensive.

Your "I am hard pressed to imagine anything better than the .357. I will say that I am biased, because I think the sun sets and rises on the .357"
is a VERY strongly worded statement that really piqued my curiosity. And the following "There is a very good reason for that" was not even stated... so what could that reason be?

So hate me... I was curious. Now if you are done delving into my confrontational attitude instead of just answering questions, I leave you to it. Perhaps you did not notice my previous post where I listed my own preferences (both smaller than the .357 and not even listed as choices) and clearly stated what my experiences were. I never said I didn't like your choice. Whatever

I think it is probably just different perspectives... you theorize because you are enamored with a cartridge that you shoot well. I responded from personal experience. And I can tell you this much... just because you shoot a particular caliber well does not make it suitable for shooting game. Coyotes are pretty easy to kill, but I would never choose a .357 when there are better cartridges available for big deer or as other people have stated, bears or cougars. I never plan on a bunch of fast follow up shots. I plan on ONE really well placed first shot.

I have killed dozens of game animals with handguns and the only time I ever remember shooting multiple times is at rabbits and one really nasty racoon that didn't know he was dead already. So if you don't appreciate my candor and sarcastic wit... I don't know what to tell you.

 

[TimboKhan]

Now if you are done delving into my confrontational attitude instead of just answering questions, I leave you to it.

I did answer your questions, but let me go a little further with my answer. The OP wanted ideas on the best general HG caliber, including, but not limited to, hunting. I think that the .357 fulfills thats need because, generally, it does a lot of things very well, and it does others well enough. Had he asked for the best bear gun, my answer would have been different, but he asked for the best general cartridge, not the best hunting cartridge. That being said, the .357 is plenty capable as a deer round, particularly when you consider that handgun hunting requires closer ranges than does rifle hunting. A 165 grain bullet that delivers 518ft/lbs at 50 yards is enough for a deer. Bowhunters regularly whack monster deer with considerably less. It is about 200 or so ft/lbs less than a .44, but it is enough.

Now then, let me answer this statement:

you theorize because you are enamored with a cartridge that you shoot well. I responded from personal experience. And I can tell you this much... just because you shoot a particular caliber well does not make it suitable for shooting game.

I do not theorize that the .357 is suitable for shooting game, I know it is, at least if you use some common sense. It clearly is not suitable for moose or bear, although I would add that a perfectly placed shot on either makes that argument somewhat null and void. I don't have the hunting experience to back that claim up because I hunt with a rifle, which, I would add, is the far more efficient platform for hunting in terms of terminal effect. The fastest .44 is still considerably slower than the slowest .270, after all. I have shot other calibers, and my experience tells me that the .357 is the easiest "big" caliber revolver to shoot. I would also add that I don't disagree with your comment on the .22 (or .32, I guess), as I go out fishing with a .22 far more often than I do with a .357. When I am deep in the woods, however, the .357 is my choice.

Sorry if I didn't understand your sense of humor. It is sometimes hard to tell when someone is being sarcastic on a forum, and I have had people misunderstand me before. It just seemed like it was unnecessarily hostile, is all. If thats not how you meant it, then I am sorry I took it that way.

 

[Lazuris]

My gp100 is my friend when i go camping. My .44 super blackhawk is my other friend when i go camping as well. But after to much hiking with that i'm an 1" shorter in my right leg

 

[19-3Ben]

Markbo- you really were being very confrontational. TimboKahn was not being at all over-sensitive, or defensive.
This place is called the high road for a reason. Please take the high road in the future. There is a reason that Timbo has been around here for 2.5 years. He knows how to conduct himself. You've been on the forum for all of 3 days, and I'd love to see you stay, so please don't get yourself banned for being confrontational.

 

[Ed Ames]

I've spent a lot of time wandering around in the woods (and deserts) without ever needing a handgun. The only times I've even wished I had one was when I saw a nice backstop and thought some plinking would be fun. Based on that I'd probably pick a .22 or .32H&R mag as my general gun.

If I was hunting I'd want a gun suited to my game... a .22 or .32 for small game, a .357, .44,, .454, or even .500 for big/big and dangerous game.

In general though my #1 requirement would be a revolver. Why? Litter. Brass litter to be more specific. The "leave no trace" concept really seems to apply strongly to recreational activities... don't let your use of our remaining wild areas mess up things for the next guy. Don't leave beer cans or candy wrappers lying around ether.

 

[Noxx]

When I go walking in the boons, the 686 is my stout companion. .357 Wheelgun for me thanks.

 

[Mortech]

I'm one of those thsat went from carrying a 357 Mag to carrying a 10MM (yes I'm a definite semiauto fan ), I think the 10MM is lagging due to a lack of available NEW handguns chambered in that caliber . I only started to carry it when I finally got my hands on a couple of great used S&W 10MMs .

 

[TimboKhan]

I think the 10MM is lagging due to a lack of available NEW handguns chambered in that caliber .

I disagree. I think it is lagging because the .40 does everything that the 10mm was supposed to do (and, to be fair, did) without all the reported theoretical downside. There are no new guns because there just isn't that much interest. Now, that said, I have no particular problem with the 10mm. As a matter of fact, I am somewhat intrigued with it as a "outdoors" caliber, although I doubt very seriously that I will ever buy one.

 

[Browning]

The .40 S&W Isn't Quite As Powerful As The 10MM When Loaded To It's Full Potential

TimboKhan : I disagree. I think it is lagging because the .40 does everything that the 10mm was supposed to do (and, to be fair, did) without all the reported theoretical downside. There are no new guns because there just isn't that much interest. Now, that said, I have no particular problem with the 10mm. As a matter of fact, I am somewhat intrigued with it as a "outdoors" caliber, although I doubt very seriously that I will ever buy one.

Well it comes close, but the .40 S&W doesn't quite do all the same things that a 10MM will when it's loaded to its full potential. It's only when a 10MM load is watered down that the .40 S&W is able to catch up.

This is all full power factory 10MM ammo.

Full Power 10MM Ammo
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_25

10MM 135 Grain 1600 FPS / 767 Ft LBS
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_25&products_id=45

10MM 155 Grain 1400 FPS / 675 Ft LBS
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_25&products_id=239

10MM 180 Grains 1300 FPS / 676 Ft LBS
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_25&products_id=36

10MM 200 Grains 1250 FPS / 694 Ft LBS
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_25&products_id=40

10MM 230 Grains 1120 FPS / 641 Ft LBS
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_25&products_id=158

10MM Ballistics
http://www.greent.com/40Page/ammo/10/10mm-advoc.htm

And there are plenty of pistols chambered in 10MM, maybe it isn't quite as popular as the .40, but it's still out there. It's just that .40 S&W caught on because most people didn't like the recoil of the powerful loads that the 10MM used initially. That's how the 10MM came to be just a slightly more powerful loading than the .40 S&W, but it's not anywhere near it's full potential when it's loaded this way (to basically -P ballistics instead of +P or +P+).

Here are just some of the new 10MM pistols available.
http://www.gundirectory.com/body.asp?gun=Pistol&pp=1&sort=-3&ammoID=397&ammo=10mm&ammoD=10mm+Auto%2C+Bren+Ten

In comparison the .40 S&W is going quite a bit slower than the 10MM. Generally even the self defense loads for the .40 S&W are only going from 981 FPS to 1200 FPS for 479 to 608 Ft LBS of energy. That's a long way from a 10MM 200 grain bullet traveling at 1250 FPS for 694 Ft LBS or a 135 grain bullet traveling at 1600 FPS for 767 Ft Lbs of energy.


CorBon defensive load ballistic tables w/ the .40 S&W included.
http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/corbon/convjhp.htm

General information on the .40 S&W
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.40_S&W

 

[BlindJustice]

How about the .400 CorBon in the 1911 platform.
Corbon offers the 170 gr. DPX in their 'hunting' lineup
but a 155 gr. Hornady 155gr XTP JHP - would the game
hit know the difference?

if I had to choose tween my 1911 or 625 vs my 686
I'd take the 1911 number one because I shoot it better
as well as being able to more easily carry a spare mag. vs
a spare speedloader.

DIfferent strokes.

 

[TimboKhan]

And there are plenty of pistols chambered in 10MM, maybe it isn't quite as popular as the .40, but it's still out there. It's just that .40 S&W caught on because most people didn't like the recoil of the powerful loads that the 10MM used initially. That's how the 10MM came to be just a slightly more powerful loading than the .40 S&W, but it's not anywhere near it's full potential when it's loaded this way (to basically -P ballistics instead of +P or +P+).

Interesting. I should have been more clear in my post of what the tradeoffs are, but you basically illustrated them better than I could anyway.

maybe it isn't quite as popular as the .40

Friend, you are a master of understatement. I haven't a problem with people that shoot the 10mm (although I am somewhat convinced you all are a cult), but it is signifigantly less popular than the .40. My own conspiracy theory as to why that is boils down to 3 letters: FBI. I think that the second the FBI complained about the round, it died in the eyes of most of the gun magazines, and most of the law enforcement purchasers. Without LE orders bolstering it's popularity amoung civilians and without magazines telling people how great it is, it is just withering away, which is to bad.