The Most Powerful Handgun in the World

.308 Norma said:
There's a Black Powder/Handgun deer hunting season where you live? That's neat! What state is that?
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Missouri.
To be fair, calling it a Black Powder/Handgun season at this point is oversimplifying it a bit. It started out as a Black powder/Muzzleloading only but they've been adding more legal methods (want to hunt with an Air Rifle or Atlatl) over the years starting 8yrs ago or so and changed the season name to Alternative methods. The handgun you mentioned might be allowed, I think it would be but I haven't looked into it enough. Rifles have to be loaded from the muzzle however.

I was really looking forward to going out this year and taking the Ruger 45 Colt that I got as a replacement for the BFR. Unfortunately, on the days I'm going to be available the weather is predicted to be bad (Bone chilling cold this weekend, rain next weekend).

Currently the allowed methods are as follows:

https://mdc.mo.gov/hunting-trapping/seasons/deer-firearms-alternative-methods


Deer: Firearms: Alternative Methods
December 24, 2022 to January 3, 2023
Allowed & Prohibited Methods
Methods
Deer:Firearms, Alternative Methods, Allowed

- Muzzleloading or cap-and-ball firearms, .40 caliber or larger and capable of firing only a single projectile at one discharge; in-lines and scopes are allowed.
- Multiple-barreled muzzleloading or cap-and-ball firearms and/or muzzleloading or cap-and-ball handguns, including revolvers, .40 caliber or larger, are allowed and may be carried in addition to a muzzleloading or cap-and-ball rifle.
- Centerfire pistols or revolvers using expanding-type bullets, such as lead or copper
- Air-powered firearms, .40 caliber or larger, charged only from an external high compression power source (external hand pump, air tank, or air compressor)
- Longbows, compound bows, and recurve bows of any draw wright; hand-held string-releasing devices, illuminated sights, scopes, and quickpoint sights are allowed.
- Crossbows
- Atlatls, which are defined as a rod or narrow board-like device used to launch, through a throwing motion of the arm, a dart 5 to 8 feet in length.
 
.308 Norma said:
There's a Black Powder/Handgun deer hunting season where you live? That's neat! What state is that?
I'm guessing there are restrictions on what type of "handguns" can be used for deer hunting during the Black Powder/Handgun season. I mean, something like my scoped XP 100 7mm IHMSA (which is actually more like a one-hand-held rifle) probably wouldn't qualify.
For that matter, I also have a Shilou-Sharps (.45-110 Sharps) rifle that fires black powder filled cartridges. It probably wouldn't qualify in the Black Powder/Handgun deer hunting season either, would it? :)
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It would be legal in minnesota in the lower half of the state which is the shotgun zone. Handguns have always been allowed but most people didn’t take advantage until people wised up to the fact that you can use an AR pistol with a brace on it to basically circumvent the shotgun zone rules.
 
someguy2800 said:
I was amazed at how shootable this appeared to be with the muzzle brake on it. It actually inspired me to order another contender barrel in 45-70 with a brake on it.

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A great brake is awesome.
The higher pressure or more gas it has, the more effective a brake can be.
The thing the brake cannot overcome is bullet weight, and the burning gas before the base of the bullet exits the muzzle.
Safe loading in a Contender with the 45-70 is low pressure loading compared to the same chambering in a Ruger #1

The brake still works with the lower pressure loading, but not as effective as with the higher pressure.
 
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entropy said:
The one in the pic with the two HK' looks exactly like the King Arms M-79, complete with the RDS that comes on the King Arms M-79, which makes me think the two HKs in that pic might be airsoft also- I know those are made. The camo jobs with virtually no wear makes me wonder also.
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If I am remembering correctly that picture is actually from the book "No Easy Day" by Matt Bissonette, using the pen name Mark Owen, and is supposed to be a picture of his personal weapons that he used on deployments with DEVGRU. He was also supposedly one of the the three or four Seals who made entry into OBL's bedroom but unlike the others who have made that claim hasn't claimed to be the one who actually shot him.
 
xphunter said:
A great brake is awesome.
The higher pressure or more gas it has, the more effective a brake can be.
The thing the brake cannot overcome is bullet weight, and the burning gas before the base of the bullet exits the muzzle.
Safe loading in a Contender with the 45-70 is low pressure loading compared to the same chambering in a Ruger #1

The brake still works with the lower pressure loading, but not as effective as with the higher pressure.
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A ruger #1 load would probably be a stretched frame on the first shot. It surprised me when I did the math a few days ago on the case head thrust of a 45-70 at typical 27,000 psi lever action pressure is actually about 20% less case head thrust than a 5.56 nato. For some reason I had always thought a 45-70 contender was limited to trapdoor pressure, but the math and T/C themselves say lever action pressure should be well within the design limitations.
 
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The thing that throws people off with the Contender and even the G-2, is you can safely shoot all of the 221 Fireball, 222 Remington, 222 Rem mag, 204 Ruger, 223 Rem, and the like with these same case head diameter (necked up or necked down), and you can run bolt action pressures safely all day long.
But you sure can't run those same pressures with a 260 Remington, 30-06, etc...Larger case head diameters.

You can get a Encore frame in trouble too with the some of the big magnum's (even the Rem Mag's and Win Mag's if you push things) with multiple reloads as that frame is trying to flex open.
 
What's the maximum pressure for a 45-70? That depends ... greatly
My Lyman reloading book has 3 sections for the 45-70.

1. for the Springfield trapdoor - 18,000 CUP
2. for 1886 Winchester & 1985 Marlin - 28,000 CUP
3. for Ruger #1 & #3 - 40,000 CUP
 
xphunter said:
The thing that throws people off with the Contender and even the G-2, is you can safely shoot all of the 221 Fireball, 222 Remington, 222 Rem mag, 204 Ruger, 223 Rem, and the like with these same case head diameter (necked up or necked down), and you can run bolt action pressures safely all day long.
But you sure can't run those same pressures with a 260 Remington, 30-06, etc...Larger case head diameters.

You can get a Encore frame in trouble too with the some of the big magnum's (even the Rem Mag's and Win Mag's if you push things) with multiple reloads as that frame is trying to flex open.
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Yep, you see it especially with larger diameter bottleneck cartridges with thinner brass. I had 30 herrett and 357 herrett's as shown in my profile picture but if you push the gas pedal a little too hard on either of those you will start getting sticky opening and case head separation on the thin 30/30 win based cases because of the frame springing. I moved away from both of those to a 357 maximum and a 300 ham'r. I actually get higher velocities on both of those with better brass life despite both being at a case capacity disadvantage because I can run them at full pressure.
 
Durango_Dave said:
What's the maximum pressure for a 45-70? That depends ... greatly
My Lyman reloading book has 3 sections for the 45-70.

1. for the Springfield trapdoor - 18,000 CUP
2. for 1886 Winchester & 1985 Marlin - 28,000 CUP
3. for Ruger #1 & #3 - 40,000 CUP
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I you do some math on it you can find what sort of case head thrust a contender will handle based on cartridges that are know to work well and offer long life. I think for practical purposes you can consider the limit on the contender frame to be about 7000 lbs of case head thrust, 6000 or 6500 is probably a more comfortable number for a bottleneck cartridge to get good brass life.

A few examples of cartridge case head thrusts.

45/70 trapdoor 18,000 psi, .506" diameter = 3617 lbs
45/70 lever action 28,000 psi, .506" diameter = 5627 lbs
30/30 winchester 42,000 psi, .422" diameter = 5871 lbs
44 magnum 36,000 psi, .457" diameter = 5902 lbs
223 rem 55,000 psi, .378" diameter = 6169 lbs
5.56 nato 62,000 psi, .378" diameter = 6954 lbs
444 marlin 42,000 psi, .470" diameter = 7283 lbs

cartridges with too much case thrust,

45/70 modern action 40,000 psi, .506" diameter = 8039 lbs
308 winchester 62,000 psi, .473" diameter = 10,888 lbs
454 casull 65,000 psi, .478" diameter = 11,658 lbs

I have actually always wanted to build a contender in 454 casull or 460 smith and wesson, but limit the pressure to around 30-35K psi of pressure. That would keep you below the 7000 lb thrust ceiling, but you could potentially be creating a bomb for somebody in the future if they didn't know any better and put a full power round through it. A 444 or 45/70 would be better for that reason.
 
xphunter said:
Understand that.
I have seen a 338 Win Mag pop open a Encore frame upon firing:(
This is soon after the Encore came out and folks were touting you can run it just as hard as a bolt rig...
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Match Grade Machine had a blog post awhile back where they made a 6.5 prc barrel to test and they decided even with factory ammo they didn't like what they were seeing and pulled the plug on offering any PRC based cases.
 
someguy2800 said:
Match Grade Machine had a blog post awhile back where they made a 6.5 prc barrel to test and they decided even with factory ammo they didn't like what they were seeing and pulled the plug on offering any PRC based cases.
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No surprises there.
The WSM’s and SAUM’s have same issues.
If people want to run a Encore hard I just have them lean toward the 280 Ackley case, and use that caliber or neck it up or neck it down and be content.
 
A little off topic but I'm old enough to have belonged to the American Reloaders Assn in the fifties. Dan Cotterman published a mimeo'd newsletter. I remember reading the stories and out Dick Casull's developing the 454. From the blow ups to the triple loads and on and on. Five shot cylinder in a re heat treated Colt SAA, blue printed and a load consisting of a base charge of Bullseye, main of 2400 and topped off with Unique. Imagine my surprise finding that load written up in either Pachmayr or someone's book written fifty years ago. Hope no one tries it.
Anyway, my 44 29 or my 45 Colt Ruger is plenty for my 78year old arthritic hands.
I wonder what the final tally of wrecked SAAs was.
 
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PapaG said:
A little off topic but I'm old enough to have belonged to the American Reloaders Assn in the fifties. Dan Cotterman published a mimeo'd newsletter. I remember reading the stories and out Dick Casull's developing the 454. From the blow ups to the triple loads and on and on. Five shot cylinder in a re heat treated Colt SAA, blue printed and a load consisting of a base charge of Bullseye, main of 2400 and topped off with Unique. Imagine my surprise finding that load written up in either Pachmayr or someone's book written fifty years ago. Hope no one tries it.
Anyway, my 44 29 or my 45 Colt Ruger is plenty for my 78year old arthritic hands.
I wonder what the final tally of wrecked SAAs was.
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That sounds terrifying.
 
The first breech-loading howdah pistols were little more than sawn-off rifles, typically in .577 Snider or .577/450 Martini–Henry calibre/
 
BLACKHAWKNJ said:
Define "handgun". Are we talking about:
1. Revolvers
2. Semiautos
3. Single shots-?
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All of the above.
I define a handgun as a gun that can be shot with one hand (even though modern technique is 2 hands) and it cannot have a shoulder stock.
People have made handguns to shoot almost any rifle cartridge but a handgun cartridge is a cartridge that was designed for handguns.
 
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