Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The RUGER OLD ARMY Club

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by ClemBert, Aug 11, 2010.

  1. Doak

    Doak Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    262
    Location:
    Northern California
    It applies to all firearms. It's not a problem w/smokeless arms. If ya go to a store, & ask to see a new gun in the box...it'll have powder residue in the bore. Unless somebody came to their senses, and repealed that statute in the last 10 yrs.
     
  2. SUMIKITO

    SUMIKITO Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    196
    Location:
    Los Angeles County CA
    Re:"it's not an issue with stainless ROAs"

    Sorry, BUT!, I beg to differ with that! It IS an issue with stainless steel ROAs! It sure IS an issue! Stainless steel will corrode and rust and PIT very heavily if not cleaned right after shooting highly corrosive Burned Black Powder!!! Black powder and its derivatives when burned start corroding anything right away. Unburned, it is inert and non-corrosive, and comes and is sold in a cheap metal tin can, however after ignition, those particles will start to attack any metal it is in contact with right away. It is a fantastic metal but IT WILL RUST. CORRODE, AND WORST, PIT. Normal steel will not PIT as heavily and deeply as stainless steel. Any metallurgist or competent gun builder will confirm this. Mostly surface rust in powdery form attacks regular chrome moly blue steel.The only kind of barrel/chamber that can withstand this kind of hell are the chrome lined barrels that are issued to the military, not stainless steel. Please do not think buying an externally clean, good looking, shiny used OR NEW stainless steel ROA will be exempt from a good bore inspection! No way! A lot of folks have been, get this, decieved by sellers of "shiny", blingy stainless steel firearms without inspecting the bores very well and have regreted it. Now this IS specially true of black powder firearms. The most shot-out heavily corroded barrels out there in stainless steel have always been with black powder firearms. Both in rifle or pistol/revolver form. Ask any good gunsmith or gunshop worth their salt and integrity about all this, and you will be surprised at what they have seen firsthand! I have walked away from a lot, a whole lot, of good looking stainless steel Old Armys at gunshows, gunshops, pawnshops, shooting ranges, I mean a lot, after peering into their bores. Shook my head as I walked away! Pull that cylinder, look inside the bore, a very good look! Walk if you see any kind of rust, pits, rings, dirt, whatever. A trusted seller would never sell you a firearm without a good bore inspection by the buyer. If the seller is far away and can only ship, than demand, not ask, close-up pictures of the muzzle and bore. If he can't do this , ask what return policy or terms he has, if not skip it my friends. Walk. It sure IS true that Ruger did ship fired and tested brand new ROAs in stainless steel and blue versions without cleaning them or their bores, why, I do not know, but I think it was nuts to do so. I have seen them first hand brand new in their wrappers and boxes,cases, before they discontinued them. So watch out for those new ones too! Stainless steel is NOT a super-steel, a very fine steel indeed and highly impervious to the elements (rain, sweat,dirt,moisture,oily hands,etc.,whatever) but not to burned black powder. No sir! ...............Hope this helps a lot of folks out there, all the best to all as always.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2013
  3. ottsm

    ottsm Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    77
    All this talk got me a little concerned about my blued ROA that I bought new back in the early 90's. I also bought the SS version. The SS version I shot and never had any reason to try the blued one. Well I used my brightest LED light to look down the bore without removing the cylinder, love these new LED lights, no problem seeing. Bore was perfect so at least this one must have been cleaned. Now I can sleep better.
     
  4. mykeal

    mykeal Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
    Messages:
    5,147
    Location:
    Michigan
    What statute is that, Doak?

    I have 4 NIB bp revolvers (2 ROA's), and at least 4 NIB long guns, and none exhibit any signs of having been fired, much less fired and then not cleaned.

    I think we have an internet legend here.
     
  5. Doak

    Doak Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    262
    Location:
    Northern California
    Sorry. Don't mean to stir up contention. Last .45 Blackhawk I bought, been prolly 10yrs. ago, had a test fired, uncleaned bore, fresh outa the box. I had to get permission from the store to run a patch thru it, so I could get a clear view. I looked at 3 of 'em. All dirty. Belief is not necessary...they were shipped dirty whether ya believe it or not. :-D

    They said all firearms were required, by "law" (true laws, the Devine ones, protect Liberty, all the rest are "statutes", ie. "statutory law"), to be test fired at the factory and shipped, uncleaned, to the dealers.

    I don't know what the title of the statute is/was.

    Hey, I hope they stopped doin' it. If any o' ya have FFL's, and are gettin' arms directly from the mfgr's that are clean, then...Wonderful!!.

    SUMIKITO, you're absolutely right, stainless rusts/corrodes too, just not as quickly...the stainless ROA's usually got snapped up before damage had enuff time to manifest.

    Kindest Regards,
    Doak
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2013
  6. mykeal

    mykeal Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
    Messages:
    5,147
    Location:
    Michigan
    You're probably thinking about the NY statute that requires the manufacturer to provide the state with a fired casing from each gun they ship (to NY). That obviously does not apply to black powder guns.

    Black powder guns are not fired and then shipped dirty.
     
  7. SUMIKITO

    SUMIKITO Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    196
    Location:
    Los Angeles County CA
    Black powder guns are not fired and shipped dirty.....

    Ruger HAS ALWAYS fired their guns right before boxing and shipping as a matter of company policy right from the start. If anyone here has gotten a spanking clean barrel off of a brand new Ruger firearm of ANY KIND, then a patched cleaning rod has been run through the barrel, not by Ruger, again I repeat, not by Ruger, but by the distributor, the FFL recipient, or the gunstore etc. Feel free to contact Ruger in regards to this, and you will get the same answer. They will tell you that no firearm leaves the factory floor unfired ever! As of other black powder manufacturers, well who knows maybe they do value cleanliness of a brand new about-to-ship firearm. How nice of them to do just that. Thank you very much. As of Rugers, well, all it takes is a peek, a good peek into that inner sanctum called the 'BORE' my friends so you can rest assure to sleep tight with that new ROA under your pillow tonight! Don't forget that a rusted, pitted ,ringed, or badly damaged bore CAN and WILL most of the time bring down a guns value (any gun) by as much as 50% below book value. There are no more ROA barrels to be found out there in the open market. Ruger has stopped selling them a long time ago. The only hope we all have is they have a good number left to service the ROA, only IF you send them the entire gun at your expense and pay the piper. And NO, you will not get your old barrel back! Rugers service is, to put it, exemplary! You might, as often as I hear from others, might just get a brand new gun! Still the same gun, but new in every respect. Keep them bores clean and all will be good. All the best to all.
     
  8. woodnbow

    woodnbow Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    116
    Hmm.. I wonder how they expected to sell a brand new pitted bore. I mean if they ship to Arizona maybe the dirty bore wouldn't rust. If it goes to Seattle or Houston it's likely to be a different matter entirely. Even a day in that environment might be all it takes to ruin a bore..
     
  9. Doak

    Doak Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    262
    Location:
    Northern California
    Over the years, I've heard several versions of the test firing proceedure & the powder they used. Supposedly it wasn't black powder. Some kinda substitute close to smokeless. And they sprayed some kinda protectant in the bore afterward. Whatever they used, it was corrosive on some level. Might even o' been the "non-corrosive" caps. Who knows?

    Many ROA's made it thru the process w/o damage. Others, not so much.

    Like woodnbow said, destination/humidity coulda had alot to do w/it.

    Anyway, inspecting the bore before purchase, is the point not to loose in all this.

    Kindest Regard,
    Doak
     
  10. whitetailbob

    whitetailbob Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19
    what are these for ?

    came accross these items told they are for the old army anyone know ? thought maybe the sights but im not sure
     

    Attached Files:

  11. SUMIKITO

    SUMIKITO Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    196
    Location:
    Los Angeles County CA
    Mysterious parts/tools for the Ruger Old Army??????

    Having taken apart an ROA before down to the last little screw/pin/spring etc. and looking at those items very carefully, I would recon that at no time during takedown/or reassembly would I pick up any of those things to use in the ROA at all. Even if I tried hard, I really in all honesty, can't think of using any of those in an Old Army. They do look like something for taking down the breach of an in-line muzzle loading rifle from the rear end????????? Maybe the defunct and short lived Ruger 77/50 muzzle loading percussion rifle? Mentioning that it is "for a Ruger black powder gun" when given to you could have mean't that instead? Maybe, just maybe. Any Dyed in the Wool B.P. shooters here, maybe your expertise is called for on these "tools". Am just smartly guessing here, but who knows.................As always, the best to all.
     
  12. robhof

    robhof Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    982
    Location:
    Bowling Green Ky.
    robhof

    Those tools are for a Dan Wesson, the model 11 or 12 I believe, they had a tensioned barrel with an external nut that had to be tightened by the tool and the flat gauge is to set the barrel/cylinder gap. I own a later model that has an internal nut that uses a different wrench. They are fairly collectable and are a must for older DW model owners. To keep on subject; they're definitely not for a ROA.:cool::evil:
     
  13. SUMIKITO

    SUMIKITO Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    196
    Location:
    Los Angeles County CA
    Re: Mystery tools..........

    There you go whitetailbob. Guessed wrong here. Could not tell about that feeler gauge for the cylinder/barrel gap. Could not make it out. Robhof, now there is a true highly knowledgeable shooter at your service! Super! Can't get any better on that! Oh by the way , whitetailbob, maybe the guy who told you that had a few shots of good shine, hence the confusion! Hope he don't come joining this club with some kind of ROA look-alike as an admission ticket! No telling what he may post!........Keep up the good work guys.
     
  14. whitetailbob

    whitetailbob Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19
    thanks alot fella's i appreciate it lol i took my old roa appart today and polished her up her name is (MERTLE) lol anyway i couldnt see where it could be used guess i have some trading stock anyways
    thanks again
     
  15. FreddyKruger

    FreddyKruger Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Messages:
    214
    Location:
    Australia
    Quick Q, what punch do i need to knock out the roll pin on the front sight? look like someone has attacked it and both my regular 1/16th punches dont fit...
     
  16. SUMIKITO

    SUMIKITO Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    196
    Location:
    Los Angeles County CA
    :):what:;)Here is my Ruger Old Army 5 1/2 inch adjustable sights blue BP-5 [no 'F' ] YES it does exist my friends! Will post more photos including a letter sent directly to me from Ruger as of its authenticity for everyone to see and read. Unfired and unturned, as new as the day it was made. Also check out the sticker/label on the side of the plastic hardcase it came with.....catalog no.,model no., also has a round inventory sticker [12/08] that Ruger says is theirs. Was this pistol part of their clean-out guns, the last of the remaining inventory perhaps? The clean-out guns were sold off by April 2009. Or was it a prototype that sat there for a while prior to their discontinuation?
     

    Attached Files:

    • 021.jpg
      021.jpg
      File size:
      75.7 KB
      Views:
      78
    • 012.jpg
      012.jpg
      File size:
      82 KB
      Views:
      50
    • 007.jpg
      007.jpg
      File size:
      71 KB
      Views:
      61
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  17. SUMIKITO

    SUMIKITO Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    196
    Location:
    Los Angeles County CA
    My ULTRA RARE Ruger Old Army BP-5 adj. sights 5 1/2

    More pictures of my "hens teeth" Old Army BP-5 , never ever printed in Rugers catalogs ............. Also next to it, the BP-5F fixed sight model for comparison.
     

    Attached Files:

    • 015.jpg
      015.jpg
      File size:
      60.2 KB
      Views:
      32
    • 019.jpg
      019.jpg
      File size:
      88.6 KB
      Views:
      26
    • 027.jpg
      027.jpg
      File size:
      128.3 KB
      Views:
      63
    • 040.jpg
      040.jpg
      File size:
      47.6 KB
      Views:
      40
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  18. SUMIKITO

    SUMIKITO Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    196
    Location:
    Los Angeles County CA
    The ULTRA RARE Old Army BP-5 adj.sights 5 1/2" blue..

    And here are a bit more pictures and that not too elusive long-form birth certificate, not from Kenya or Hawaii, but from Newport, New Hampshire, USA, sent to me by Rugers' Custodian of Records to attest as to its origin and authenticity. This pistol was shipped out as a "special production model" on August of 2009 per their records. Ruger formally and officialy stopped production of the Old Army on January of 2008. The serial no. on the pistol starts at '145'-95350 which dates the frame quite a while back. The frame number indicates it to have been made in late 2004 or early 2005. That alone was a long while before they would even think of discontinuing the pistol. But then again, besides the frame, how about the barrel? Yes the barrel? Could this have been a one-off barrel they had to make to complete this pistol? Was this really a very special pistol? I say 'special' because, where are the others? As mentioned by our very distinguised member # 18, 'arcticap' on this forum, [go to page 19, post no:472] this is the RAREST Old Army of them all, bar none. How come they have not popped out into the open for public view? I did mention before in my posts not too long ago that I have personally seen another BP-5 like this one, AND a KBP-5 stainless in the flesh some time ago. Did they look authentic, yes they did. Did they come with a box, papers, etc.,NO they did not. This was at a local gun show in Glendale, here in S. California. Where they for sale, No they where not. They were just being shown around by two different guys. One from Alaska and one from upstate Washington. The guy from Alaska, he had the stainless KBP-5, if I remember right, was dealing in some really fancy and expensive knives, all painstakingly made by hand etc. Anyway there you have it folks, hope this pistol makes for a great addition to this great club. All the very best to all again.............
     

    Attached Files:

    • 035.jpg
      035.jpg
      File size:
      67 KB
      Views:
      43
    • 030.jpg
      030.jpg
      File size:
      162.1 KB
      Views:
      36
    • 018.jpg
      018.jpg
      File size:
      79.1 KB
      Views:
      28
    • 028.jpg
      028.jpg
      File size:
      128.5 KB
      Views:
      42
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
  19. Patocazador

    Patocazador Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,731
    Location:
    Central Florida
    I used a 1/16" punch on mine. It was tight but it worked.
     
  20. NineMilePete

    NineMilePete Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Utah
    Head up. I posted a SS ROA on the private sales site. Really need to sell it this time.
     
  21. davepool

    davepool Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    583
    Location:
    phoenix
    After shooting cartridge guns for 45 years, i finally decided to try this dirty, nasty smelling gun addiction and.....


    I LOVE IT

    I've been lurking around for a few weeks, and finally dug out the camera to post a pic.

    I bought a cylinder loader from Powder Inc and have an extra cylinder on the way from ClassicBallistix, looking forward to what ever tips i can pick up from the experienced BP shooters here.


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013
  22. Patocazador

    Patocazador Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,731
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Is that Still Life portrait above from the Museum of Black Powder Art?

    Great composition on that photo. Are you an artist?
     
  23. davepool

    davepool Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    583
    Location:
    phoenix
    Nope, the bowl of apples were the only thing on the table to prop it up against :)

    Actually i suck at photography, but that did turn out pretty good. Trust me, i didn't even think about it until after i uploaded it.....i amazed myself :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013
  24. SUMIKITO

    SUMIKITO Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    196
    Location:
    Los Angeles County CA
    Portrait of a ruger old army

    Hey there Davepool, like Patocazador said, now that is one great photo. Quite refreshing to see in this here parts nowadays. For a moment I was thinking if I had seen that portrait before at the Louvre Museum in Paris while I was there shopping with my wife for an accordion for her to play next to me at the range while I shoot my Ruger Old Army! Ended up buying a large harmonica instead as she said it would come in much handier. Nowwww....back to shooting.
     
  25. whitetailbob

    whitetailbob Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19
    first kill with the ROA

    does this work for my membership pic killed this little guy with a LEE 2 CAV 44 Ruger Old Army ConicalBlkPwdrMOLD 90384 bullets i cast today i have to say they shoot great oh 25 yards
     

    Attached Files:

Share This Page