"The 7.62x25 Tokarov is indeed a powerful round. Note that, in my post I did NOT say it wasn't. It's problem has been that of "ice-pick" wounds. Face it, the 7.62x25 got it's reputation more from submachinegun use in the hands of Russian troops in WWII than as a self-defense cartridge."
Not to spark a caliber war (since it's been sparked already) but this is bull. Tokarev service ammo is no more 'ice picky' than a similarly steel-jacketed 9mm or 45acp round, at least as far as human targets care. All these service FMJ rounds zipped through in a straight line right up until the advent of hollow points.
And considering just how superior the ballistic arc of a fast-moving Tokarev round (with attendant low recoil) is compared to a 45acp, they were/are quite a bit more effective at range. As short range bullet hoses, the PPSH/etc. insanely high rate of fire and extremely reliable feeding were ruthlessly effective weapons. Grease gun mags are notoriously finicky, and have much lower rates of fire (which is good since the recoil is far worse).
Tokarev is going plenty fast to expand a hollow point round reliably, and IIRC even the cheapo Wolf HP's (only ones to test the SD market, so far) expand to something over half an inch. Obviously at least as effective as the soul-killing 45acp round nose bullet.
"Huge wounds from a 45 are effective knock down rounds but, "shock kills" as does a round that is fast enough to defeat many body armors."
Even 5.7x28 has trouble initiating reliable hydrostatic shock, and it's going over 200fps faster, usually. Tok isn't a shock round, but what it has is ample velocity to violently deform pliable metals like lead, and enough sectional density to maintain it through bone/etc. Expansion diameter exceeds 45 ball, which has itself been deemed 'good enough' over the decades, but with far flatter trajectory.
"Many American shooters are not familiar with a lot of the weapons from
the former Soviet Union"
No, the problem is that for a solid two decades, Americans were exposed to surplus 7.62x25 corrosive ammo that sold for less than 22LR, and many of us have subsequently gotten it into our heads that it is a similarly inferior cartridge for serious purposes.
My retort: Tok is essentially identical to 7.63 Mauser, which was the first 'service power' smokeless cartridge introduced for pistols. Mauser was no fool, nor were the tens of thousands who were satisfied with the cartridge subsequently. Much like 7.5x55 Swiss, which was one of the first necked, Spitzer style smokeless rifle cartridges, the first attempt was extremely close to an ideal solution (as was 7mm Mauser, the actual first), since a lot of the same testing we've been repeating to this day was done over a century ago. The Mauser pistol round didn't just fall off a turnip truck any more than the 7mm rifle round. In fact, it was so effective, that both the Soviets and the Chinese not only kept it around after overthrowing their imperial governments, they have both maintained it in new production service weapons to this day.
I strongly suspect the only reason the Germans didn't have Mauser SMGs was because they had previously abandoned the round for shorter versions (30 Luger and 9mm's) better suited to handgun grip lengths of the day. Well, that and the period's early ergonomics basically rendered guns as powerful as Broomhandles impractical for most men (what good is a powerful, flat shooting gun when your sights are useless, capacity limited, magazine changes/loading slow, and your needlessly-elaborate locking system prone to jamming on dirt/dust?)
TCB
