The solution to the U.S. war on drugs

[walking arsenal]

While doing research for a one of my classes i came across some interesting data concerning Drug trafficking into the state of Minnesota.

Since i live in the state of MN this naturally piqued my interest.

Drug Situation:In Minnesota, MEXICAN traffickers control the transportation, distribution, and bulk sales of cocaine, marijuana, methamphetamine, and small amounts of black-tar heroin. Numerous Mexican groups and street gangs such as the Latin Kings are operating in the state. As a general rule, the upper echelon Mexican distributors in Minnesota transport the majority of their proceeds back to family members residing in Mexico. At the retail level, independent African American traffickers, African American street gangs, Native American gangs, and independent caucasian groups purchase cocaine, black-tar heroin, and marijuana from Mexican traffickers. In outlying areas of the state, independent caucasian groups and outlaw motorcycle gangs distribute methamphetamine in small quantities. Street gang activity in Minnesota has increased dramatically over the past few years. African American gangs appear to be primarily involved in the distribution of crack cocaine.

DEA Web site http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/states/minnesota.html

So the conclusion i came to was that if we control the Mexican border we control drug imports into the U.S.

Granted the drug producers will then start growing things in state but that is significantly easier to keep an eye on.

Thoughts?

 

[Third_Rail]

How about even more simplistic?


Take the market away from them!

That's right, legalize it all and produce it cheaper, sell it cheaper, but at a higher quality. Beat them at their own game; take the profit out of it and they'll stop. By leaving everything regulated in the War on (some) Drugs [thanks SW for the phrase], you make the regulated items high priced.

 

[stevelyn]

Legalize. Regulate. Tax. Take the blackmarket profits out. Recreational drugs should not be treated any different than liquor.
Prohibition of liquor didn't work. Prohibition of some drugs dosen't either.

 

[Thain]

Legalize `em all, and let Phillip-Morris start selling pot. Quality will go up, prices will go down, and I'll buy stock in Little Debbie snack cakes.

 

[Sindawe]

Legalize `em all, and let Phillip-Morris start selling pot. Quality will go up

I don't know about THAT. PM products are pretty poor examples of quality tobacco.

I agree with the legalize 'em all stance.

 

[ElTacoGrande]

So the conclusion i came to was that if we control the Mexican border we control drug imports into the U.S.

Granted the drug producers will then start growing things in state but that is significantly easier to keep an eye on.

Thoughts?

Sorry, won't work.

The first thing to understand is that the drug business is a business, a highly competitive business, with many entrepreneurs trying to find innovative ways to lower costs, improve customer satisfaction, and market their products.

There are a million ways to get drugs into the US. You can haul them over the Mexican border. You can haul them under. You can put them in condoms and have people swallow them. You can put them on submarines (yes the Colombians have done this). You can bribe government officials (US customs and law enforcement agents; yes this happens). You can put them on airplanes. You can synthesize them in the US. You can send them by speedboat (this is done frequently). You can ship them from Canada (this is done by the ton). The US has thousands of miles of coastline, with many little islands and bays and vegetation.

Anyway, the point is, that if Mexicans are currently moving drugs from Mexico, that's only because it's the most cost-effective way to do it right now. Like I said, there are a million ways to do it, all with varying levels of expense and risk. If one of these ways becomes non-competitive with the other ways, they will try one of the remaining 999,999 options they have. Or some entrepreneur will invent a new option. Why couldn't the genes to produce cocaine be moved from the coca plant into some other plant? There's no reason; it would be easy to do, and if they can't ship it from Colombia they'll geneticly engineer it and produce it here. Or they'll synthesize it. Or bribe customs officials. Or the CIA will get in the coke business. Or whatever.

There's a $500bil market for illegal drugs in the US. That means that every year, there's enough cash flowing around for 500,000 people to become millionaires. Every year! That's powerful motivation to a lot of people to be creative, work hard and take risks. A lot of them don't make it, but many who are trying are in situations where they don't see many other avenues to success. Remember, ambition is present in every race and education level and class, but opportunities for "legitimate" success are not so available to those who are in the most disadvantaged groups. So they take the ways that are open to them, whether it is sports, entertainment, drug dealing, whatever.

If we want to stop illegal drugs, there are only two ways that could work. One is the Asian-style solution, which is summary executions for everyone involved, which includes executing plenty of innocent people and basically abolishing our jury trial system. The other is to legalize them. Take your pick.

 

[neoncowboy]

Granted the drug producers will then start growing things in state but that is significantly easier to keep an eye on.

Thoughts?

Domestic producers must have an eye kept on them why exactly?

As was previously stated, the solution to the war on [some] drugs is to dismantle the DEA, repeal federal controlled substances laws and leave people alone to live their lives the way they want to.

 

[Biker]

Legalize `em all, and let Phillip-Morris start selling pot. Quality will go up, prices will go down, and I'll buy stock in Little Debbie snack cakes.

Ya got me with that one, I have to admit. I now know what 'guffaw' means...back in the day, I preferred Oreos, milk and Cheech and Chong's 'Up In Smoke'.

Biker

 

[Derby FALs]

How about even more simplistic?


Take the market away from them!

That's right, legalize it all and produce it cheaper, sell it cheaper, but at a higher quality. Beat them at their own game; take the profit out of it and they'll stop. By leaving everything regulated in the War on (some) Drugs [thanks SW for the phrase], you make the regulated items high priced.

I wish it was so simple but unemployment would go through the roof. At least for six months and then they wouldn't be counted anymore as their benefits run out.

 

[FeebMaster]

I wish it was so simple but unemployment would go through the roof. At least for six months and then they wouldn't be counted anymore as their benefits run out.

Former DEA employees will just have to find other jobs. I'm sure they're qualified for something.

 

[ElTacoGrande]

Former DEA employees will just have to find other jobs. I'm sure they're qualified for something.

That's really the major problem. There are hundreds of thousands of DEA agents, cops, prosecutors, prison guards, etc, who have worked in these jobs for their whole careers and really AREN'T qualified to do anything else. It's really hard to give pink slips to a bunch of powerful and heavily armed people who are sort of above the law. But that's exactly what we need to do. Sorry to any DEA agents reading this, you're risking your life doing a job that no one needs you to do, and that does more harm than good.

 

[O.F.Fascist]

Sorry, won't work.

The first thing to understand is that the drug business is a business, a highly competitive business, with many entrepreneurs trying to find innovative ways to lower costs, improve customer satisfaction, and market their products.

There are a million ways to get drugs into the US. You can haul them over the Mexican border. You can haul them under. You can put them in condoms and have people swallow them. You can put them on submarines (yes the Colombians have done this). You can bribe government officials (US customs and law enforcement agents; yes this happens). You can put them on airplanes. You can synthesize them in the US. You can send them by speedboat (this is done frequently). You can ship them from Canada (this is done by the ton). The US has thousands of miles of coastline, with many little islands and bays and vegetation.

Anyway, the point is, that if Mexicans are currently moving drugs from Mexico, that's only because it's the most cost-effective way to do it right now. Like I said, there are a million ways to do it, all with varying levels of expense and risk. If one of these ways becomes non-competitive with the other ways, they will try one of the remaining 999,999 options they have. Or some entrepreneur will invent a new option. Why couldn't the genes to produce cocaine be moved from the coca plant into some other plant? There's no reason; it would be easy to do, and if they can't ship it from Colombia they'll geneticly engineer it and produce it here. Or they'll synthesize it. Or bribe customs officials. Or the CIA will get in the coke business. Or whatever.

There's a $500bil market for illegal drugs in the US. That means that every year, there's enough cash flowing around for 500,000 people to become millionaires. Every year! That's powerful motivation to a lot of people to be creative, work hard and take risks. A lot of them don't make it, but many who are trying are in situations where they don't see many other avenues to success. Remember, ambition is present in every race and education level and class, but opportunities for "legitimate" success are not so available to those who are in the most disadvantaged groups. So they take the ways that are open to them, whether it is sports, entertainment, drug dealing, whatever.

If we want to stop illegal drugs, there are only two ways that could work. One is the Asian-style solution, which is summary executions for everyone involved, which includes executing plenty of innocent people and basically abolishing our jury trial system. The other is to legalize them. Take your pick.

I agree.

You cannot stop the freemarket, and if you think we should then perhaps you should be thinking really hard about renouncing your citizenship and looking for a new home elsewhere because there are plenty of countries out there that try just that.

 

[ArmedBear]

Former DEA employees will just have to find other jobs. I'm sure they're qualified for something.

They wouldn't be happy in a free society. And salary/benefit packages in the few remaining genuine police states are pretty low, compared to our Federal government.

Still, I wouldn't oppose sending them to North Korea.

 

[bamawrx]

You have to remove the cost of the drugs in order to also put a stop to the property crimes that result from users trying to afford the drug use. The government could contract private companies to produce drugs that are very controlled in quality and provide the drugs for free to anyone that qualifies. We will know who is doing what and how much.

Lets face it, we could produce all the drugs we need and distribute them for what we spend on the "war on drugs" in ONE DAY. That will free up resources for treatment and help to make some people feel better about the new program.

No profit, no cost, no market. The implications would be hard to imagine. Forget legalize and tax, as that only solves half the problem.

 

[ElTacoGrande]

You have to remove the cost of the drugs in order to also put a stop to the property crimes that result from users trying to afford the drug use. The government could contract private companies to produce drugs that are very controlled in quality and provide the drugs for free to anyone that qualifies. We will know who is doing what and how much.

The cost of producing drugs which are currently illegal is so vanishingly small that you almost wouldn't measure it. Even if the whole thing were legal, the packaging (pills, bottles, injectables) would be more expensive to produce than the drugs themselves. These are cheap cheap cheap chemicals.

Right now, there are very few property crimes committed by people to buy alcohol, and legalized drugs could be cheaper than alcohol. 10mg of the right substance will satisfy an addict for 24 hours. How much does it cost to produce 10mg of a simple pharmaceutical? $0.001 maybe?

 

[Ezekiel]

Legalize. Regulate. Tax. Take the blackmarket profits out.

Should we do this with guns?

"Liberty" allows folks to do what they desire [drugs] until it harms another. If you do not back legalization of drugs, it is pretty hard to be righteous on gun control.

John Q. is both a dumbass, and a hypocrite.

 

[Third_Rail]

I think he meant regulate and tax as in tobacco; make sure the drugs aren't going to kill someone with the recommended dose, etc. Not "regulate" like the NFA. At least, that's how I read it.

 

[Maxwell]

The drug war is prohibition under a new name.
It will work the same way when you up the security on the border.

Lets roll back to remember what happend in the 20's, only now most of our urban citizens are disarmed and the criminals will rampage without any fear of them.

Then theres the semi-legalized slavery of mexicans thats been taking place. Illegal workers being shipped in, used, abused, and dumped when their employers cant use them anymore.

Overall its a human tragedy waiting to explode.
I think securing the border would solve one easy problem, then make many more than we can ever hope to contain.

First we have to do something about destroying the drug market (I say legalize, tax, and educate). Then we have to deal with the social situation of these immigrants to either deport or integrate them with the border towns.

If their going to live here, we need to identify them and put this group to working proper American jobs. Make sure their getting at least minimal wage, good insurance, paying for their medical care and signing up for all the benefits employers must give.

Then go to work with more education stuff. Get their kids speaking english, eating apple pie and memorizing the plege of alliegance.

 

[longeyes]

Legalize it.

Don't hide the Dark; learn how to dance with it.

Watch some august institutions on this side of the border go belly up if drugs get cheap.

 

[NMshooter]

I thought most pot for "commercial" use was grown in the US already.

All those acres in California state and national parks for example.

Not counting all the folks who grow it for personal use.

Sure would be nice if meth labs could not compete with Pfizer et.al., and all went away. I really do not want to watch my apartment complex burn down because some fool was cooking a rush batch and screwed up.

Just think of all the poor gang bangers who would have to earn an honest living...

 

[308win]

Make it free, as much as you want when you want it and go straight to the hard stuff. In a short period of time we wouldn't have a drug problem nor many users.

 

[stevelyn]

I think he meant regulate and tax as in tobacco; make sure the drugs aren't going to kill someone with the recommended dose, etc. Not "regulate" like the NFA. At least, that's how I read it.

Yup. Gotta have the quality control.

 

[Merkin.Muffley]

Former DEA employees will just have to find other jobs. I'm sure they're qualified for something.

They'd move to the BATFE.

 

[Zero_DgZ]

Trouble is, legalization is a slippery slope.

Am I for it? Hell yes. And I don't drink or smoke (anything).

To me, it's a basic right for people to figure stuff out for themselves and do what they want with their bodies.

The problems come in when unscrupulous types pushing hard drugs (like heroin or crack) start ruining the lives of others. Smoking some grass now and again is one thing (as is having a drink every once in a while, &c.) but getting trapped in the hard drug game is a different story entirely.

That's where the government has to walk the thin line between not infringing on people's personal rights and protecting them from stuff that is actually quite nasty.

You want my opinion? It should all be legal - Locking the poor users up for consuming the stuff doesn't help them and just hurts everyone all around in creating more criminals. Instead, that effort ought to be put towards providing places and services to clean them up when they've had enough.

That's a big factor. If by nature your vice is a felony you aren't exactly going to go knocking on the government or any professional's door for help, are you? The powers that be need to quit being hypocrites about it and get their hands dirty. Remember the original role of the government? To protect the people, not punish them?

Yeah.

You catch more flies with sugar.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Legalize. Regulate. Tax. Take the blackmarket profits out.

Baloney! Just legalize all that junk. There's no authority for government to stick its grubby paws into any of it.