The Truth About Plated Bullets

[PinnedAndRecessed]

I just got off the phone with the owner of West Coast Bullets. I was asking him about urban legends and information circulating about plated bullets.

Legend #1: if you push the bullet to magnum velocities you'll strip the copper plating and leave it in the barrel. Answer: false. He assured me (and Ranier's website bears this out: http://www.rainierballistics.com/loaddataMW.htm )

that magnum velocities are not detrimental. "In fact," he said, "if you strip one because of the velocity, I want to see it." He said the only way to accomplish this phenomenon is to crip the bullet so heavily as to break the copper. Then you might leave some copper behind.

Legend #2: copper has a higher coefficient of friction therefore cannot be loaded down to velocities as one might see in the minimum velocity for lead bullets. The bullet will get stuck. Answer: also wrong. The data for lead bullets is a good starting point for working up loads for plated bullets. That leaves us with the range all the way up to magnum velocities.

Conclusion: since plated bullets are so economical and perform all the way from lead to magnum velocities it seems like a good choice. No leading of barrels or bloodstream, either.

 

[Dave R]

Devils advocate--but copper fouling is somewhat harder to clean than leading...

That said, I still prefer plated.

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

but copper fouling is somewhat harder to clean than leading

Just curious, but is there a rule of thumb to determine when this begins? At what velocity does this become a problem?

 

[VonFatman]

P&R,
I am a plated bullet fan myself. I've used Rainiers and Berry's and have not seen ill effects.

I really like using plated 148gr HBWC's (Berry) in my .38 loads.

Good points.

Bob

 

[C. H. Luke]

True the copper fouling is somthing of a pain but easy to knock out quick with Shooter's choice or Sweet's. For the $ diff. can put up with a bit more fouling but am used to cleaning rifles and that involved process.......

 

[Standing Wolf]

Copper fouling ought to be susceptible to anything containing ammonia, including plain old-fashioned ammonia from the grocery store.

 

[HKGuns]

How can a plated bullet deposit more copper in a barrel than a jacketed bullet? The copper is the same hardness regardless of how it is deposited on the lead core. I use Ranier's and they perform flawlessly in my Poly bored USP. I've noticed no deposits of lead or copper.

 

[P95Carry]

Not strongly on topic but - anyone know the deposition process? Can't be temperature cos of relative MP's ... so assume it is electro plating. Any info?

caseydog has just got some plated 9mm's ...... saw some loaded rounds last night and they look good - yet to see how he likes them. He got a good value deal - that I do remember.

 

[SpiderJohn]

Berry's FAQ recommends avoiding magnum velocities with plated bullets.

http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq.php

Why would Berry's do that if they will work?

 

[larryw]

Shoudek: different alloys and deposition mean different jacket hardness and resulting gilding. Run a knife along a plated and jacketed bullet for an example.

I'm a big fan of West Coast bullets; order enough that I get the 200# bulk pricing (7K 230gr 45 bullets usually). My UPS guy and I have a deal; I warn him when an order is on the way so the overweight backup driver who needs the exercise gets my route for the delivery.

When you call to order, save time to chat with Red; heckuva good guy.

WCB bullets work great as long as you don't push them too hard as already stated (and the corollary to that: don't crimp heavy). With the soft core and soft plating material, the heel of the bullet will deform and accuracy will suffer greatly.

Next time I push one of these too hard and the jacket peels off, I'll hit the freeze button and pick the jacket out of the air so we can send it to Red.

Or you can load a .429 RNFP 240gr WCB in front of 24gr of H110 with a firm crimp, shoot at paper target from about 10 yards and look at the holes (plural) in the paper...

 

[P95Carry]

Or you can load a .429 RNFP 240gr WCB in front of 24gr of H110 with a firm crimp, shoot at paper target from about 10 yards and look at the holes (plural) in the paper...

That good eh?

I have yet to try plated - have sorta resisted so far - but if 9mm's at std velocities cut it - I may well go that route like caseydog. maybe I'll see how his hold up a while!

 

[JohnKSa]

Depends on the bullets and on the plating. Worst case of lead fouling I've ever seen was a result of my shooting plated bullets. Either the lead was too soft or the plating was very thin, or both.

Mixed copper & lead fouling is a pain to get out of a bore.

 

[larryw]

Oh, they're great.

And just like you don't use a screwdriver for a prybar (despite the fact that Sears will replace it, no questions asked, although you will get a or two...), you don't drive plated bullets at magnum velocities.

...right tools for the job...

They're great for 45 ACP and run-and-gun 38 Super! And 38 and 44 special loads (a fun load for kids is 6 gr of WST, 240gr RNFP and a Marlin 44 Lever gun shooting at steel targets at 100 yards...bang...not yet...not yet...almost there...pling!

 

[Bullet]

JohnKSa Quote -
“Depends on the bullets and on the plating.â€

I hope this is right. I just loaded some Rainier 335gr hollow points for my 50 Beowulf.

 

[larryw]

Peeled like a banana

What happens when you drive a plated bullet too hard? Here's a 357 cylinder full of WCB 125gr RNFPs loaded to SAMMI maximum. (Apologies for the quality of the picture, cell phones with cameras are handy, but there is a price to pay...)

I'm guessing 2:00 is where the core hit and the rest of the rips are the jacketing material.

 

[Austin Charles]

At least you hit the center of the target.

I have had a lot of trouble with WCB. I had my most trouble with keyholes

I did finally get a good load with the 165gr. 40. It shoots nice and accurate but for all the trouble and time to get to that point I switched to Montana Gold bullets and I doubt that i'll ever go back to WCB. The only way I got a good load was to make it a powder puff load.

If you push it, it will be inaccurate and keyhole. Even my accurate loads seem to be open more and a few more flyers than my loads with Montana Golds.

 

[Gewehr98]

Something odd there.

I run Berry's .357" 158gr Truncated Flat Points at a chronographed 1600+ fps through my 6" Desert Eagle's polygonal bore. I've never had a problem with the bullets coming apart, all the way out to 200 yards. (It's one of my IHMSA Silhouette guns)

I'm starting to think the separations above are a result of either an ambitious roll crimp cutting through the plating, or the plating's so thin that the rifling is cutting all the way through to the soft lead.

 

[armoredman]

Shot 400+ Ranier plated 115gr 9mm through the CZ PO1 - no issues, and accurate. I also don't build screamer loads for plinking.....

 

[larryw]

Wow, you're getting 1600FPS from a 158 grain bullet out of a 6" pipe??!!?? I want that load data because it sounds like FUN!!

I doubt crimp is the issue here, I've pulled enough of these apart while setting up the dies to be very certain about that. Rifling is a possiblity; we all know how [ahem] smooth Ruger bores are... But then again, this bore stays pretty clean regardless of what I shoot...

I dunno Gewehr, ever take a shot at a Ram that broke just perfect, and the thing didn't twitch? I wonder...

Please don't take this as a slam on WCB: I am a huge fan of the people behind the company and their outstanding product. My posts were more in response to those who profess to know the absolute "Truth" about any process that is as much science as it is art.

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

or the plating's so thin that the rifling is cutting all the way through to the soft lead

The owner of West Coast Bullets (they were sold to Accurate Bullets of Idaho but are still manufactured out here) said the thickness of the plate is anywhere from .003 to .008 of and inch thick, depending upon the caliber and the liklihood that the bullet will be pushed to hyper-velocities.

 

[P95Carry]

I am still intrigued - how is this deposition achieved? Particularly - how they do it in bulk.?

 

[Gewehr98]

Larry, I should've added a warning.

My 158gr Desert Eagle ram-toppling loads use a healthy dose of AA#9, and aren't exactly what one wants to put into a K-Frame S&W Model 19, or worse, one of those airweight J-Frame .357's. Suffice it to say, Accurate Arms made a separate Adobe .pdf load data chart strictly for Desert Eagles, if you PM me I'll send it to you. I won't list the load here because, sure as heck, somebody will stuff them into a J-Frame Airweight or K-Frame Model 19, and end up looking silly, being hurt, getting killed, or a combination of all three.

My only point was that I push the plated bullets really hard, and haven't had any problems with them. Maybe it's my Redding profile crimp die, and maybe it's the Desert Eagle chromed polygonal bore. Having said that, I've got a friend with a 10" .357 Magnum Contender, and it has standard grooved rifling. I'm tempted to have him try my aforementioned screamer loads in his gun, and see if the bullets come apart once they leave the muzzle.

 

[Gewehr98]

P95, Berry's has the process listed on their website.

I'm not real big on wanting to work for them anytime soon after reading it, however. In the event of a fire there, I would imagine a first-responder would take one look at the MSDS list, and drive back to the fire station.

They use a cyanide bath with copper in solution, and electroplate the bullets. See here:

Berry's Preferred Plated bullets begin as a swaged lead core. The plating process works through electrolysis. The swaged lead cores are tumbled in an electrically charged cyanide bath containing high-grade copper ingots. The copper clings to the lead and the longer the bullets remain in the bath, the thicker the plating. Our bullets are plated to the correct size and then taken out of the bath.

 

[P95Carry]

Thx Gewehr - somewhat what I had imagined but - not the nicest envirinment eh! Hard to see how it can be a very economic process - with all the equipment needed to do it - cost of copper etc ... and yet prices overall seem very competitive.

I am still awaiting caseydog's appraisal of his new 9mm loads with plated's.

 

[armoredman]

"Electrically charged cyanide bath"? Sounds like something out of Saddams torture chambers!