The UN vs. our guns

[Elza]

Article VI: General Provisions, Supremacy of the Constitution

Clause 2:

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

I’ve heard it said that a treaty with the U.N. supersedes all sovereign law including the Constitution. In actuality they do not in spite of the rantings of John Foster Dullas and idiots like him. But many are cited in the actions of our government. They get away with it simply because these actions go unchallenged. We have not had a declared war since WW2. How many times have our troops been deployed since 1945? Not by a declaration of war but based on UN treaties.

Actions that have been challenged have a spotty record with SCOTUS. Some of the interpretations (and I use this term very, very loosely) of SCOTUS in recent years are clearly unconstitutional. Yet, if in the name of anti-terrorism or public safety, it seems that the Constitution is ignored.

Is it all that hard to believe that the “9 wise men” would do the same regarding our guns rights? All it takes for a UN treaty is the approval of the Senate, the signature of the President, and the right makeup of SCOTUS judges to allow it. At that point we would be summarily screwed. If SCOTUS allows it there is no place left to go.

Perhaps I am being overly paranoid. Then again, maybe not!

 

[Torque]

I have followed this slightly. It is because I get news letter from NRA-ILA alerts that I am hip to it. I would like to gain more insight as I am sure all of us here would. Thanks for the 'head up'. I sure hope NRA still keeps on track of it.

The UN hopefully would have a GREAT battle on their hands trying to 'gather' and these guns!!

Worse to worry about is our AMMO! Especially as I see the price is rising like our flippin' GAS! Poor man can't heat his house or defend it! Its seems like a pre-curser to abolishing it!

Sheeesh!

 

[eric_t12]

I barely trust the 2nd A with OUR government, i sure as hell dont want any other gun-free utopias telling us why we shouldn't have evil guns...

kofi annan was from africa right? obviously outlawing guns does wonders there...

correct me if i'm wrogn i really don't know much about africa

 

[Number 6]

International treaty cannot trump the Constitution. International treaty can trump US statutory law, but the Constitution is the highest authority. I am aware of no one of consequence in the academic, governmental, or legal profession that ascribes to a view that would have treaties override the Constitution.

kofi annan was from africa right? obviously outlawing guns does wonders there...

correct me if i'm wrogn i really don't know much about africa

The problems in Africa are due to many other factors than just gun control.

 

[jeepmor]

Constitution is the highest authority

..."It's just a damned piece of paper".... GW Bush

Defending the constitution, my arse. There is a plan in place fellas, to deny it would be naive. Oh yeah, politicians have our best interests in mind.

I love the USA, but our government is starting to make Mexican politicos seem honorable.

 

[Number 6]

..."It's just a damned piece of paper".... GW Bush

Got a source for that?

 

[Thin Black Line]

I love the USA, but our government is starting to make Mexican politicos seem honorable.

A family member's employer was on a recent business trip to Mexico and
complained about being pulled over by police numerous times to make
"donations" to the local government.

In America we've gone beyond this method --it's done directly from your
paycheck and at the cash register.

The NAU will help bring everyone up to speed

 

[TCB in TN]

The problems in Africa are due to many other factors than just gun control.

You are correct, it just highlights the fact that gun control does nothing to "stop the violence", while widespread gun ownership can provide insentive for those less motivated bad guys to look elsewhere and stop those well motivated ones before they reach Cho level havoc!

 

[geekWithA.45]

This topic comes up every 9-12 months, and is discussed ad nauseam, so listen up.

The bottom line is that No treaty may not over ride the bill of rights or other provisions of the constitution.


Please use the search feature on the Supremacy clause, there are many threads that parse and discuss the correct meaning of it.


In summary, there are three key points to understand that do not permit ammendment by treaty:

*Pursuance: laws must be made in conformance to the Constitution

*Authority: treaties can't be made without authority of the Constitution, the constitution is not granted authority to amend itself by treaty.

*"the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.": This refers to STATE judges and constitutions, preventing any given state from opting out of national treaties.

 

[Titan6]

After they appointed Kenya the head of the economic development committee I could no longer take them seriously...

 

[pcosmar]

*Authority: treaties can't be made without authority of the Constitution, the constitution is not granted authority to amend itself by treaty.

And this fits with the SPP how?
The plan is, North America under UN control.
The Plan is proceeding.

The only question is, how can it be stopped.???

 

[DMF]

This comes up periodically here on THR. Usually inspired by some BS propaganda, often from a political lobbying group seeking money from people who are ignorant of the truth. Here is a link to another discussion on THR about the issue of treaties.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=120787&highlight=treaty

 

[pcosmar]

A look into the stated plans.

A few of the more intersting statements from members in leadership positions in the organization:

"We at the executive level here were active in either the OSS, the State Department, or the European Economic Administration. During those times, and without exception, we operated under directions issued by the White House. We are continuing to be guided by just such directives, the substance of which were to the effect that we should make every effort to so alter the life in the United States as to make it possible a comfortable merger with the Soviet Union."
H. Rowan Gaither - President of the Ford Foundation, 1953

"To that world assembly of sovereign states, the United Nations, our last best hope in an age where the instruments of war have far outpaced the instruments of peace, we renew our pledge of support - to prevent it from becoming merely a forum for invective - to strengthen its shield of the new and the weak - and to enlarge the area in which its writ may run...."

"To destroy arms, however, is not enough. We must create even as we destroy - creating world-wide law and law enforcement as we outlaw world-wide war and weapons...."

"In addition, the United States Delegation will suggest a series of steps to improve the United Nations machinery for the peaceful settlement of disputes... - for extending the rule of international law. For peace is not solely a matter of military or technical problems - it is primarily a problem of politics and people."
John F. Kennedy - 1961

"...This regionalization is in keeping with the Tri-Lateral Plan which calls for a gradual convergence of East and West, ultimately leading toward the goal of "one world government'....National sovereignty is no longer a viable concept..."
Zbigniew Brzezinski

"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."
David Rockefeller

"...In short, the 'house of world order' will have to be built from the bottom up rather than from the top down. It will look like a great 'booming, buzzing confusion,' to use William James' famous description of reality, but an end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece, will accomplish much more than the old-fashioned frontal assault."
Richard N. Gardner, in "Foreign Affairs,"l 1974.

"Our nation is uniquely endowed to play a creative and decisive role in the new order which is taking form around us."
Henry Kissinger - 1975

"Today, America would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order. Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government."
Henry Kissinger, 1991

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries."
David Rockefeller Baden-Baden, Germany 1991

"My vision of a New World Order foresees a United Nations with a revitalized peacekeeping function."

"We have before us the opportunity to forge for ourselves and for future generations a new world order, a world where the rule of law, not the rule of the jungle, governs the conduct of nations. When we are successful, and we will be, we have a real chance at this new world order, an order in which a credible United Nations can use its peacekeeping role to fulfill the promise and vision of the U.N.'s founders."
George Bush - 1991

"What I'm tring to do is to promote a process of reorganization of the world..."
William Jefferson Clinton - 1997.

The most benign interpretation is that the members of the organization support what are non-coordinated efforts of one another when those efforts seem to promote shared goals, not least of which is to dissolve nationalist power bases to make way for international solutions to eco-political problems and disputes. Eroding national sovereignty is an obvious and necessary step toward achieving this end.

http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/freedoml...tacks-Second-Amendment-Firearms-Worldwide.htm
We have to stay on top of this.
http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2003/tst092203.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf5Mk6D0dNU

 

[coyote_jr]

There's still a U.N.?

 

[HardKnox]

the question is if un troops landed on american soil in order to enforce these laws and "provide peace" (probably the same peace WE provide in the middle east) how many "pockets of resistance" would they face? what percent of the claimed 80 million would be unhappy enough to do something?

1% of 80 million, or 800,000 un organized people spread out over an entire continent MIGHT be able to do something///

 

[jselvy]

1% of 80 million, or 800,000 un organized people spread out over an entire continent MIGHT be able to do something

You better believe that the NICS and BATFE records would be used to round up those potential troublemakers.

Jefferson

 

[Cosmoline]

The Founders absolutely did not foresee a day and age when treaties with foreign powers would involve domestic policy issues. To them, a treaty was simply a way for sovereign powers to settle international military and territorial disputes. Since WWII, a great many people here and abroad have been trying to create a new kind of international law, where treaties intrude deeply into what had always been domestic issues. From the level of punishment in criminal cases to gun control. Unfortunately, the Constitution allows the adoption of what amount to foreign legal codes by simply ratification and agreement between the Senate and President. This conflict will have to come to a head eventually.

 

[Autolycus]

Only one instance of chest thumping so far.

Whenever I read these threads I get a picture of a whole bunch of rednecks with disgsustingly large bellies yelling "Molon Labe" as they pose for the camera crews. Thats just what I see in my thoughts.

 

[pcosmar]

Tecumseh said,

Whenever I read these threads I get a picture of a whole bunch of rednecks with disgsustingly large bellies yelling "Molon Labe" as they pose for the camera crews. Thats just what I see in my thoughts.

Understandable, allow me to adjust the picture for you.
I am 5'8" 140 to 145 lbs.(heaviest I have been) Almost 50 yrs. Good health.
I am disarmed. Fighting for rights I may never have myself.

I will resist.

 

[obxned]

Should such an evil thing ever be done, I think the resistance would likely be of the type envisioned by John Ross.

 

[Mumwaldee]

Whenever I read these threads I get a picture of a whole bunch of rednecks with disgsustingly large bellies yelling "Molon Labe" as they pose for the camera crews. Thats just what I see in my thoughts.

As you are one that often takes umbrage to stereotypes, I'm taking umbrage to this fantasy. As you yourself have pointed out...gun owners...and supporters of the Constitution come from all walks of life and probably represent a wider cross-cut of American life.

 

[[email protected]]

I'll put $100 on our guns, and give the points....

 

[MDW GUNS]

The US should get out of the UN and give 50% what we pay to the UN to the Red Cross and the Red Half Moon.
This way more money would reach the needy and we could cut our taxes!
All US troops doing UN work would be used to secure our borders and France, Germany and the rest of these big mouths can see how they keep order in the world!

 

[Torque]

Quote:
..."It's just a damned piece of paper".... GW Bush

Got a source for that?

If a source is printed make sure to PM me. I gotta see it! Thanks.

I haven't heard it from his mouth, myself, but it sure does sound like something he would say. Saying it while bobbling his head.

Isn't G.W. just an insult to our great country?

I really, really think so.

 

[Torque]

Understandable, allow me to adjust the picture for you.
I am 5'8" 140 to 145 lbs.(heaviest I have been) Almost 50 yrs. Good health.
I am disarmed. Fighting for rights I may never have myself.

I will resist.

Now thats the spirit! Did you hear that? It doesn't take guns.

It just takes spirit!

Guns are JUST the equal. (or almost) Knowledge of 'things' is the equal.




*sorry, didn't mean to double post*