Theoretical home defense ammo

[alpha6164]

I just completed a Magpul Dynamics Shotgun class with Chris Costa and he went into extreme detail in use of slugs, buck etc. The #1 and only purpose for use of slug is in a long distance situation where your 00Buck's pattern is too great where risk of bystanders or hostage situation.

We did a number of drills where our guns were loaded with only buck shots, and on command we would do a combat load where a shell was taken out and a slug dropped in to take a 30-40yrd shot. He stressed that there is no reason to limit yourself to 5-8rounds of single projectile such as a slug where you can have 30rnds of 5.56 and in usually in a lighter, more compact package.

The whole purpose of shotgun is to be able to deliver multiple projectiles at the same time to deliver a devastating blow. My Benelli M4 is loaded with 00Buck

 

[RyanM]

Some of the new supermaterials have different properties like hardness depending, fo rexample, wether you try to move through them fast or slow.
Similar to water, if you slowly move through it it takes very little effort. But try to move fast and it really slwos you down.

You're over-thinking it.

The whole purpose of shotgun is to be able to deliver multiple projectiles at the same time to hit very small, 10 pound or less animals, which are moving very quickly.

Fixed it for you.

If you want to use a shotgun only for its "intended purpose," you should stick with using birdshot against birds and small game no larger than bunny rabbits.

 

[Jst1mr]

If you can sell it, I will market my drywall flak jacket....

 

[Phil DeGraves]

Aguila markets a short 12 ga slug and duplex loads that seem to fit your criteria somewhat. They only work through fixed action shotguns (SxS, TBs and some pump guns). Low recoil, about 750 FPS. Should be a good SD/HD load.

 

[Regolith]

Hit someone on the head with a hammer, and you could easily bust their head open. Hit a piece of wood with a hammer, and the best you could probably do is split it along the grain. Plywood or drywall would probably just get dented and bent, unless you hit it real hard.

I've put my FIST through drywall. That's how I know bone is harder than drywall. I cannot think of any method you could use that would make a bullet penetrate bone, but not drywall.

I remain skeptical.

 

[RyanM]

Update: I just finished a proof-of proof of concept testing. I figured, rather than blowing $800-$1300 on something I'm only 99% sure will work, I may as well spend $30, mainly on stuff I'd need anyway, to do a very rudimentary test just to see if the physics and principles are sound.

End result, using modified commercial components, was a round which just barely penetrated 2 sheets of 1/2" drywall and bounced off the third (so it would've given a bad bruise to anyone on the other side of a wall, but nothing worse), and was able to penetrate through two 1 gallon jugs, ending up between jug 2 and 3.

That's pretty much exactly what the numbers said, for a modified slug rather than my actual concept; 1.25" penetration through drywall (I was originally counting on 5/8" pieces, but all the hardware store had was 1/2"), and about 7" penetration in jello, or 12-14" penetration through water. So it really looks like this line is worth pursuing.

My actual design, calculations say would be somewhere in the 13"-20" gelatin ballpark, for 1.25" of drywall.

Stay tuned.

 

[TeamPrecisionIT]

That's impressive to hear but I really want to see some video (unedited) confirming this.

Damian

 

[Floppy_D]

You've got my attention. And if it worked as advertised, I'd be interested.

 

[RyanM]

At this point, my plan is, once I have all the reloading and bullet casting crap I need, I'm not going to publish any test results myself. Any results I come up with, even if they're videoed, would be completely suspect. Like I could fire one kind of round at the gelatin or water jugs or whatever, then a completely different one at the drywall. I could do something like put all the rounds in a box and shake it up or something, but there would still be ways to falsify the results without doing anything that'd be visible on camera. If David Copperfield can make the Statue of Liberty disappear, any schmuck could make shotgun shells that are plainly different to himself, but not to a camera 15 feet away.

So, once I have a design hammered out that performs good in my own tests, and patent pending status, I'm just going to send out rounds to anyone interested in testing them, who also has the facilities to do so adequately.

 

[iiibdsiil]

It sounds like you made it work. It also sounds like it'd be perfect for my condo.

Definitely keep us posted.

Also, after you get the patent going, I'd call some ammo companies and see if they want to make a deal.

 

[RyanM]

I'm going to have to hire some pretty good lawyers, probably. I have no idea how to negotiate a licensing contract without getting ripped off.

Just completed a second test. I managed to bump the velocity down low enough that the slug stuck in the second piece of drywall. I ran out of undamaged gallon jugs, so I had to line up a bunch of pop cans full of water instead, for that test. Ended up penetrating 2 of them and denting up the 3rd one pretty bad, for like 6" of water, or 3-4" of gelatin.

That sounds really horrible, except my equations actually do predict about 5-6" gelatin penetration (but that's without layers of aluminum), for this particular slug, when it penetrates about 1.5 sheets of 1/2" (more like .46") drywall.

I'm actually using what's basically a gigantic pneumatic airgun from hell for this test. Much better control over the velocity than trying to guesstimate powder charges and stuff, and I can shoot it indoors with a stationary "silencer" made out of a bucket. That's why testing isn't taking a lot of time. It's pretty much only practical for this proof-of the proof of concept, sadly. No way I'd be able to get enough energy for the actual slug design, without buying a much bigger compressor, and using a scuba tank or fire extinguisher or something for the air tank. "Potato gun" style construction tops out at about 280 ft-lbs, with this barrel.

 

[tenbears]

For home defense in apartments or closely knit subdivision,I would think BB size shot will do. If you live out in the country, use what you feel is best.

 

[Indifferent]

Huh.