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There's a Ring in my Chamber

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by WrongHanded, Jun 7, 2020.

  1. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    I've had a Henry HO10 .45-70 GVT for a few years now. Hadn't done much shooting with it until recently.

    Whilst working up a hardcast load that turned out to be pretty stout (not intentionally), I noticed a ring in the chamber which I can't say I was really aware of before. I guess I've spent more time examining the bore and various parts other than the chamber whilst cleaning. And perhaps just not thought there should be any issues in there. And there weren't until this load.

    The first batch didn't give me trouble. It was only 5 rounds. The second batch of 20 gave me a couple sticky extractions. That's when I decided to clean it a bit better than just a brush and a bore snake, and noticed some sort of ring. I should have paid more attention, but I didn't.

    The next 20 rounds of the same hardcast load produced some very stiff extractions. I could see a ring mark on the brass. So I took some pics.

    IMG_20200606_195849450.jpg IMG_20200606_200012545.jpg IMG_20200606_201818206.jpg IMG_20200606_201618531.jpg

    I marked the case where the ring is, so I could get an idea of how far into the chamber it was.

    Despite not using any wads for any loads (though I had talked about it on another thread), here is this ring. It didn't cause extraction issues with some lighter loads I shot after the last 20 of that hardcast load. Those just popped out as normal.

    So my initial thought here was that this load is too much and I have caused the ring in the chamber by using it.

    But then I found a few boxes of empty brass that I hadn't cleaned. The first box of Hornady 325 FTX that I ever put through the rifle. A second newer box of the same that I had used to sight in with when I installed new sights. And a half box of empties of Buffalo Bore Magnum 350gr JFP that I couldn't shoot more of because they hurt too much. All of these where shot before I started working up this hardcast load, and all have a faint ring on them in the same place. Which means the ring was likely there from the beginning and I was just too ignorant to notice it for what it was.

    So there's now another possibility with the sticky extraction. All the brass I've used for this load workup is Starline. It was original from some cowboy load that I bought 5 boxes of online. I've just been cycling through this used brass for various loads so it's been getting some real wear. In fact the only time I recall loading new .45-70 brass was 20 rounds of this hardcast load which I was going to use as field carry ammo (so I haven't shot it yet). All others have been using progressively weaker brass, and that seems like it might be part of the problem.

    So before I contact Henry, I'm going to shoot some more Hornady 325gr FTX and see how it extracts. If it goes well, I'll try the BB Magnums and see how they extract. If that goes well, I'll try my hardcast load with the new brass and see how those extracts.

    Depending on how that goes, I'll have to make a decision about what I really want to do. Of course, there is the possibility that this new load really is just too much, and I do need to back it off. I guess I'll find that out next week.
     
  2. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    Call henry
     
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  3. MCMXI
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    MCMXI Contributing Member

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    It's very likely that the ring was there from the start, probably due to an issue during the chamber reaming process (no big revelation there), and as you increase pressure you're blowing more of the brass into the ring which results in hard extraction. Henry will need to replace the barrel for sure but don't mention any handloads. Many manufacturers will try to get out of fixing a problem that they caused if you mention handloads.
     
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  4. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    The whole reloads voiding the warranty thing was a concern. I don't really like lying all that much. But I also don't like having that ring in my chamber.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
  5. MCMXI
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    MCMXI Contributing Member

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    I'm 99% sure that the ring was there from the outset so make them fix their problem. It's the only way that you'll be happy and definitely do not mention reloads.

    I've seen rings in chambers before, sometimes spiral in nature and sometimes annular. It does happen with damaged reamers, chips getting dragged around etc.
     
  6. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    Thanks. That does make me feel better about it.
     
  7. CarJunkieLS1

    CarJunkieLS1 Member

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    Call Henry show them the chamber pics you showed here and I'm positive Henry will take care of it for you.
     
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  8. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    I wonder if a factory may use a wad? Buffalo Bore? 45-70shortrangecutawayjpg.jpg Like this old internet photo. Looks like it would be located in the correct area, to ring the chamber.
     
  9. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    I thought that too. But I never loaded any because I heard about the potential issue of ringing the barrel before I ever tried. And I disassembled one of the Buffalo Bore cartridges to confirm there aren't any in there either.

    From what I've read about wads causing ringing, it happens where the wad hits the bullet base. Which would be farther up the chamber. But that's just what I've read.
     
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  10. Bill M.

    Bill M. Member

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    Defective gun.
     
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  11. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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    I’m really expecting high enough to ring the chamber would have blown out the brass instead.

    Totally agree that it’s a manufacturing flaw. It happens. Had a similar problem with a Mossberg shotgun that wouldn’t extract. Got it back from them with a new barrel.

    BSW
     
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  12. Picher

    Picher Member

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    If you've never shot handgun ammo in it, it must have been the factory chambering operation, but it seems weird that it happened at that spot in the chamber, like a .22LR rifle I had that we shot a lot of Shorts in.
     
  13. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    Quick Update:

    I sent the rifle in to Henry. They paid. Turnaround was fast. They wrapped it up nice in paper, a new box, and even sent a thank you card. How nice of them! I just wish they'd actually fixed it.

    They "polished" the chamber. There's still a ring in it. I can't really tell that they've done anything worthwhile.

    So, an out of spec chamber that wears brass out prematurely, and can't handle higher end reloads with prefired brass. I had to take the sights and recoil pad off, and replace the originals to send it in. Then switch back and re-zero. All for nothing.

    However, I did find out that my 'Bear load' extracts fine when using new brass. So I guess I'll just make sure to only use new brass for high end loads, and save the prefired for lower end coated lead or plated loads.

    Oh yeah, and as this is the fourth issue I've had with only two guns I've ever bought from Henry, I won't be buying a third firearm from them. I've come to the conclusion they make 'toys' not 'tools'.
     
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  14. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    They probably figured you would put it in your safe for a.few year till you forgot about it. I always see them as lipstick on a pig and not a good pig.

    Sorry about your gun tho.
     
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  15. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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    If you’re still not happy contact them again. I have a Mini 14 that had to go back to Ruger 3x to fix intermittent FTEj.

    BSW
     
  16. CarJunkieLS1

    CarJunkieLS1 Member

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    EXACTLY tell Henry you paid a premium for a premium rifle, and instead you got a sub standard product because it has a clear chamber defect and you aren't happy about it.
     
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  17. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    You know guys, I'll think about it. The issue I have is that if they can't do it right the first time, and then they won't do it right the second time, I don't see any reason to suspect they'll do it right the third time.
     
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  18. CarJunkieLS1

    CarJunkieLS1 Member

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    Go up the food chain at Henry, not just the CS person you get on the phone.
     
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  19. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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    There’s a lot of people that buy a gun, run 20 rounds thru it, and park it in a closet. My Mini would have passed the 20 round test after it’s first trip back.

    Look at it this way, they’ll either fix it to your satisfaction or they’ll likely replace it just so they can stop paying shipping. Either way you win.

    BSW
     
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  20. 792mauser

    792mauser Member

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    I'd raise hell.
    They saw the problem, acknowledged the problem and then ignored the problem.
    Make 'em fix it, even if you sell it afterwards.
     
  21. cdb1

    cdb1 Member

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    Have you spoken on the phone with someone from Henry WrongHanded?
     
  22. MCMXI
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    MCMXI Contributing Member

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    This is ridiculous. You can't polish out those sort of chamber defects without a very good chance that the chamber will be out of spec. SAAMI only allows for +.0020" on the diameters ... not much in the way of wiggle room. That barrel is out of spec and they need to replace it for you.
     
  23. Charlie98

    Charlie98 Member

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    I bought a Federal Ordnance rebuild M1 Garand many years ago. FedOrd is not known for their quality control. The chamber on my Garand has chatter marks (probably chips, as was mentioned above) on one side of the chamber. I was young and didn't know any better, and I still shoot it to this day... and I can count how many reloads are on any particular piece of brass by counting the impressions on the case from the chamber flaw. It is only just a portion of the chamber, not a 360^ impression like you are getting.... and certainly that does not spell 'brass longevity' for your expensive .45-70 brass.

    As much of a pain as it might be, I'd send it right back. Yea, you could probably get rid of it at a gun show to someone who doesn't know better, but ethically I couldn't do it. It needs to be fixed, as much for you as anyone else who might wind up with it.
     
  24. Nature Boy
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    Nature Boy Contributing Member

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    There’s only one fix for this and it’s a new barrel.

    Don’t accept anything less
     
  25. Texas10mm

    Texas10mm member

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    I can tell you what Henry is going to say.

    They warranty their products to be used with factory ammo. I'm betting that the manual warns against the use of reloaded ammo. By using reloaded ammo in the firearm you void the warranty.
     
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