They're not all profiteers!

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ugly old guns

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Was at the gunshow at Bridgeton, MO yesterday, and CMMG was there. Their prices were in line with what I saw six months ago, and they had a full line of accessorieswith them, including mags at pre election prices. When I have the cash, my next gun is coming from them. I don't even like ar-15's! Nice to see stand up guys still, and nice to see the gloomy looks on the faces of the guys selling Colt sporters for 2100$, and WASR's for 700$.
 
I've always found CMMG to be professional and down-to-earth. I dealt them when I received the wrong upper receiver on a rifle I ordered. they were very nice and accommodating and although it took a while because the uppers were on backorder, everything was fixed on their dime. plus the rifle was immaculate. If I get another ar15, it'll probably be from them. :)
 
I just got one of their stripped lowers about two weeks ago.
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Me too. I have a CMMG parts kit in the mail. I'm really excited. It looks like I found a really good company to do business with. I hope they start producing 9mms again, because if I am impressed with the 5.56 rifle, I'm going to try to go exclusively with them in the future.
 
good to hear! i HATE profiteers with a passion! and dont give me any of this "supply and demand" garbage. the guys who do this are just plain greedy!
 
If you knew your company was going out of business and you would no longer have a job, and you thought, "maybe I should bail now and get another job while I can" but your boss came to you and said, "we'll pay you double your salary to stay." Would you stay? If you did stay, would you refuse the money? if you take the money, are you greedy? Are you profiteering? These guys are facing extinction, so I don't think it's unreasonable for them to try and set aside a little extra for those days when their sales will be zero. If people are willing to pay it, what is the problem? If your skill set was all of the sudden in huge demand, would you be greedy for getting paid the most you can get paid?
 
If you knew your company was going out of business and you would no longer have a job, ......... "we'll pay you double your salary to stay." Would you stay?
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In a word, NO. Salary is only one employment variable. IMHO, staying with a company that is going out of business just for some extra money is pretty short-sighted.
 
:banghead:You don't like the price of any good or service - don't buy it! You are not entitled to anything at any price other than what someone is willing to sell it.:fire:

If these guys want to stay in business they have to replace their inventory. The retail price of a product is not what they paid for it but what they have to pay to replace it. To do otherwise they massively increase the cost of business by having to finance their inventory. These people who own small businesses for the most part are just like anyone else, they want to make the best living they can and stay in business. The free market will always take care of itself, as long as no one meddles with it (like the government listening to people whining about a "fair price"). If they truly are artificailly raising prices, people stop buying, they hurt themselves by driving away customers to someone who provides the same or better service or product at a lower price. That "supply and demand garbage" as it was called is how capitalism works. The price is determined by what someone is willing to pay. The thing about capitalism is it is the prerequisite for freedom. Try living in a country that sets wages and prices.

So if someone holds there prices low, or even takes a hit on a given item, but can weather the losses - good for them and us. By all means patronize them with your money. They are taking a gamble. They will either drive the competition out of business if they can outlast them (but they better have deep pockets or a banker with a great sense of humor). Then someone will be whining about the shop that undercuts everyone else. Or they will go out of business themselves because they aren't able to stock their shelves once they've emptied them at below market prices. Everyone seems to want someone to keep prices low/unchanged, then when it is done these same poeple start whining about how Walmart is unfairly driving people out of business.

The beauty of America is you don't have to do business with anyone you don't want to. Don't like the service, price or product - spend your money elsewhere. If we act as if we are entitled to a particular product or service because we think the price should be "set" at a certain level thought to be fair we are starting to think like socialists/communists. Whose business are we going to start complaining and lecturing to next about their unfair prices? And by the way who gets to set that price? Based on what? Who do you look to to decide what is fair? The government? God help us all!

One last thing - any of you think it so unfair - put you money where your mouth is and sell your AR for the price from 6-12 months ago. I'll buy it, so would 90+% of everyone on here. Because I don't see anyone listing an AR for a private sale here for what they paid for it let alone reflecting a used price. Are you going to rail on the private sale listings here for gouging too?

OK, thats it I am done now. Feel much better. I know some of you are going to blast me for this post, so be it. You are wasting you time. I don't care. :)
 
So I guess it's okay when a gas station sells gas for 7$ a gallon or ice for 15$ a bag or even 20$ a case for water right after a hurricane passes. There's a line between capitalism and profiteering and I'm sorry to say quite a few of these companies have crossed that line. 1000 round cases of wolf ammo going up 30 or 40% is a joke as raw material prices have been dropping like a rock for months and the prices of crap wasr 10 ak-47's going up by double on speculation of a weapons ban that might never happen. Or how about some of these places doubling the prices for mags,maybe I missed something did the cost of labor to manufacture these mags double overnight it sure isn't the prices of the raw materials. I still use natchez.com for my ammo as they have kept their prices steady even on mags and johnmasen.com has kept there prices steady also. What we really need to do here is set up a thread to list online companies that have kept their prices steady during this irrational panic. Here's a few http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=8495&dir=18|830|845 http://www.johnmasen.com/index.html http://www.natchezss.com/ammo.cfm?contentID=ammoGroup&ammoGroup=2&searchBy=size&ammoSize=266
 
True I work for DSA, and my bosses there decided to hold prices. I am proud of that decision and think it was the fair and honorable thing to do. But I can sympathize with businesses that may be facing the end of the line with Obama. I think many companies and gun shops believe that the end is near so to speak, and are just trying to go out with as much profit as possible. Is it fair to their customers, perhaps not. But they may just be trying to put food on the table for a few months while they find something else to do for a living. I certainly think that is the case with a lot of the gun shops raising prices. My local dealer said to me "how am I going to stay in business if I cannot get any guns?" His shop makes most of its money on police/military type firearms and accessories. Not only may that all be banned, but due to the panic they cannot get inventory. It is like they had the next year of sales all in a couple weeks. What do they do for the next however many months while they wait for inventory? I suppose you could argue that they put the money in the bank and divvy it out over those months. The math works, but is that really the same thing as steady spread out sales? Will the customers keep coming back after their inventory is rebuilt? Will they even be able to sell those guns legally then?

A lot of variables to consider if your livelihood and that of your employees is on the line. I am not making excuses for price gouging, I am just saying that many businesses depending on this industry are not looking at an optimistic future. Add to that an economy that already had sales way down....

John
 
John Galt wrote:
...Or they will go out of business themselves because they aren't able to stock their shelves once they've emptied them at below market prices.
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CMMG is a manufacturer, so restocking them costs as much as it did before the buying panic. They happen to sell their products directly, but they are a manufacturer first and a retailer second. Since the actual prices of the materials used to manufacture the product has not changed significantly, it will not cost them any more to resupply than it did before the election rush.

eta:

In fact, they may be able to manufacture the product at even lower cost, since demand has risen to a level that they will need to manufacture more rifles than they regularly do, which may get them better bulk deals on materials. I'm just speculating on that, though.
 
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I've heard it explained this way...

Lets say a hurricane hits, oh... I don't know, New Orleans, and the power grid is interrupted for the foreseeable future.
Only two stores in the area (separate towns) stock generators, and each have only six generators in their stock.
'A' Town:
Local farm and ranch 'Store A' keeps the price as is. Their price is $300 each.
'B' Town:
Local farm and ranch 'Store B' decides to increase the price exponentially. Their price is $1,800 each.

Follow me here...

So, a man in A town scrapes together $1,800 bucks and wonders over to store A and buys every last generator they have. Sets them all up, and his house is now purring along like it was before the storm. Nobody else in town is able to buy a generator because he decided to buy them all, and now,he has them all. He sits in comfort as everybody else just has to suffer through.:(

A man in B town also wants several generators to run his house, but when he visits store B, he finds a very high price on their generators. He can only scrape together enough money for one generator and decides to just buy it for his fridge and freezer, and he can then get by just fine. A number of other families are able to pull together $1,800 and each get a generator, and their urgent needs are met as well.:)

Seems like "gouging" actually helped out a community spread the resources through the populace rather than produce hoarding.

End of the story goes like this...

Those without, complain about the evil business, and they press charges of price gouging. The authorities round up the generators that cost $1,800 and their sales records. They place all of this evidence in secure storage for the pending trial. Nobody in that community got to enjoy a powered fridge or freezer.:(
 
A man in B town also wants several generators to run his house, but when he visits store B, he finds a very high price on their generators. He can only scrape together enough money for one generator and decides to just buy it for his fridge and freezer, and he can then get by just fine. A number of other families are able to pull together $1,800 and each get a generator, and their urgent needs are met as well.

Seems like "gouging" actually helped out a community spread the resources through the populace rather than produce hoarding.
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So you're using capitolism to argue the benefits of communism? It's like Compitolism! :p

All kidding asside, it's a free market economy and sometimes the first guy there gets to **** everybody. That's the way freedom works. Show up early, and try not to trample the door guy.
 
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I can see the stores raising there prices to meet demand. Ultimately the consumer decides Billy Bob's gunshop will keep the Price on M4's at 2k as long as he can sell them for that. If no one buys them the price will go down. I bought a RRA a year ago so I have my AR fix. I have a WASR that I've had since before the frenzy as well.

Point blank these guys can't charge more than anyone can pay.

As for CMMG those guys are great. I don't own any of their products but I know several guys that do and they love them. I have talked to a couple of the family that owns them and they are nice people as well. Next AR I buy will be CMMG and it may be quite soon.
 
Free enterprise is a wonderful thing.

The only people complaining are the ones who didn't prepare and have to pay the higher prices.
 
I tried to carefully not "argue" one way or the other. Especially in favor of communism. That is quite an assumption, and nothing is further from the truth.
I simply gave you the story as I heard it... and heard that this actually happened after Katrina, with generators and all. You can decide for yourself which scenario worked out best.

Yes... seriously. It is not a free market as retailers are pounded with swift severity if they try to prevent hoarding. The way freedom works, is everyone is able to make business decisions and let the market chips fall where they may.
 
I tried to carefully not "argue" one way or the other. Especially in favor of communism. That is quite an assumption, and nothing is further from the truth.
I simply gave you the story as I heard it... and heard that this actually happened after Katrina, with generators and all. You can decide for yourself which scenario worked out best.
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My comment about communism was not meant to be taken in a serious tone. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Yes... seriously. It is not a free market as retailers are pounded with swift severity if they try to prevent hoarding...
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OK, BS. Seriously. Ever read the bottom of a coupon that says "Limit 1 per customer"? They can control hoarding if they want to, but they answer to the dollar not the greater good. And there's nothing wrong with that.
 
This is why we shouldn't even give some of these people any business. Example ammoman is 30 to 40 dollars more per 1000 rounds of the same 223 ammo than centerfire systems and ammunition to go. As a matter of fact ammoman raised his prices the day after the election. For the record I'm not whining about the prices because I didn't "stock up" before the panic and I refuse to act like one of these idiots(let the flaming begin) that needs to buy 5 ak47's a half dozen ar's 400 magazines and a truckload of ammo just because there's a dummycrat in the whitehouse. My gripe is seeing people taken advantage of, after being through 7 hurricanes and seeing so much gouging it just aggravates me.
 
So I guess it's okay when a gas station sells gas for 7$ a gallon or ice for 15$ a bag or even 20$ a case for water right after a hurricane passes.
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You are DAMN STRAIGHT it is!!!!!!!! If they didn't, then nobody would and guess what, people would DIE without that water, and be stranded without that gas - and there would BE NO ice, and people's food would spoil. Then, society is WORSE off, and no one makes any money off of it.

Since that attempted rhetorical question was the basis of the rest of your post, and it was answered the opposite of what you thought it would be, it blows your whole premise & argument - so, do you have any OTHER questions? :) :p

That said, it's commendable of CMMG I suppose, but lookit - Supply and demand WORKED here too, just as it did in the hurricane example, precisely because there WERE competitors (remember, the ones decribed as being forlorn that CMMG didn't jack up their prices) - so CMMG rightfully gets the business. Supply and demand works and works well every time. Had there been no other suppliers there, you can rest assured CMMGs prices would have been inflated - perhaps not to insane levels, but higher certainly. You cannot break the law of supply and demand - you can only break yourself against the law by thinking that it doesn't always work to solve problems.

The only people complaining are the ones who didn't prepare and have to pay the higher prices.
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Well, no, not really - THEY'RE not even complaining - they're merrily paying the price - the only ones complaining are the ones who are NOT paying the higher prices, not the ones who are, but just want to armchair quarterback the law of supply and demand. If it's not worth it, then don't buy it! I sure as heck didn't buy anything inflated recently. But I did buy plenty of guns at standard prices - not all types of guns have been jacked up.
 
FIRST OFF-- this is not a hurricane.

Almost nobody has dire need for the latest 30 round blaster.

Now a little story.
A very good friend of mine owned a Harley Davidson dealership
back in the 90's when Harley's were all wait listed and selling for 2-5k over list..
He decided to be a stand up guy and sell all the bikes he could get for list price.

What happened is that the bikes he sold at a normal profit level almost always ended up at other dealers showfloors or In the paper for far above what he sold them for.

He finally got with the program and started making the profit for himself.
 
Anyone hear of supply and demand? Essentially the foundation of Capitalism, upon which our economy is based and how things are priced!
Pricing to demand is not gouging, it's business. Economics 101!!
 
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