Thin 9mm w/ Shorter Trigger Pull than Kahr

[Skylerbone]

In my oversized hands the CW9 seems to have a longer pull than it should. Reality tells me my hand simply wants more LOP. It's the same sensation when I pick up a 1911 with a short trigger exacerbated by the Kahr's small frame.

Considering its intended use and the distance involved I feel if you can get a secure grip on it and see the sights it will work well enough. My wife's first trip to the range involved my father instructing her to shoot as fast as she could at the 7 yard line into the target. She put 6 shots (DA .357 mag. revolver) inside 6" in an estimated 6 seconds.

The Kahr is more than accurate enough even for those who struggle with the trigger a bit and when you factor in reliability, cost and concealability there's no need to seek out a pocket pistol that you can shoot tiny groups with. Use your range time with it to draw, present and shoot quickly.

 

[averagebear]

Great Point About LOP

Skylerbone, you called it. I am expecting a longer LOP and my hand just isn't finding it. I have dry-fired about a thousand times and put 400 rounds downrange and the CW9 does not fit me. After a lot of trigger time with full-size pistols, my hand/memory thing is looking for a larger LOP and a larger grip. My previous EDCs have been a Sig 239, several flavors of 1911s and a Glock 23. They all feel superb, but I want to downsize. If there was a lightweight version of the Sig, now that would be the ticket.

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

That statement is not accurate. Until recently all Kahrs except the K series had the same trigger. The K9 and K40 did come standard with a longer pull and was offered with the standard shorter pull trigger as an option. That feature has now been reversed, with the standard trigger now the norm and the longer pull as the option. This applied only to the "K" models.

i see, so they dumped the ridiculously long pull. smart move.

 

[usp9]

Great Point About LOP

Perhaps one of the commonly available grip sleeves would help fill your hand and improve the feel of the gun. It helps me get a more comfortable and natural feeling grip. The Hogue has a fair palm swell incorporated in, so maybe it would be worth trying before dumping your CW9.

 

[Johannes_Paulsen]

Just curious -for the people recommending the EMP, what is the trigger action on that like? Is it a smooth pull like the Kahr?

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

Just curious -for the people recommending the EMP, what is the trigger action on that like? Is it a smooth pull like the Kahr?

around 4lbs, and MUCH short pull length. same as most other 1911's.

 

[Skylerbone]

Comparing the EMP isn't really playing fair. For those not familiar with the 1911 trigger picture having two small sticks in front of you. The first is dried out and when you attempt to break it, it snaps crisply. The second is a bit green and bends to resist your effort but eventually yields just the same.

A 1911 should snap crisply with little movement before or after and generally speaking with less than 5 lbs. of resistance. When properly set up, that weight seems somehow much lighter than what the scale indicates.

If you're familiar with rifle triggers it's a close comparison.

 

[siggy]

It is funny hearing all the complaints about a kahr trigger. I made my decision on the Kahr over the Sig 239 because of the trigger. I think that my k40 has one of the smoothest triggers I have ever used. The general view is that the Kahr has one of the best DA triggers in the business and I tend to agree. I have the elite trigger so I do not know what the longer pull triggers are like so I can only comment on mine. I am still not sold on any plastic guns but if I were to get one it would be the p40 in the blackened stainless. (with the elite trigger)

 

[larryh1108]

I'm with the group that loves the Kahr trigger. For a DAO, nothing beats it. Maybe I'm nuts, but don't you pull the trigger thru the break, not creep to it? It seems like a lot of shooters slowly pull the trigger until they feel the resistance before the break (staging). IMO, that takes too long, especially in a SD situation. If you want a range gun then you buy a totally different gun for that purpose. For a SD pistol, their triggers are as good as it gets for a DAO. I also like the slip on sleeve for my XL hands.

 

[gofastman]

Taurus 709 slim

I dont really care for DAO triggers

 

[hardluk1]

I also so like the DA pull on the kahr but i can see for people with large hands or SA only shooters it might be to small or just not work well for them. I grew up shooting SA/DA revolvers and carried a small revolver for 22 + years so for me I think it is a very good trigger. We all have to find what works best. Both of my Kahrs triggers break between 5 and 5.6 oz now and thats fine. I own both a CW9 and CM9 model

 

[Skylerbone]

It's not so much a complaint about the Kahr trigger but switching from an S&W L Frame to the lost it in my palm CW takes some practice. I suppose a leather heel and a wrap might do the trick for those of us who cannot shrink our hands.

If you cannot picture what is happening then picture the opposite. Imagine a 4 year old trying to reach the trigger on a 686.

 

[Sox]

The PPS is currently available as thin, shorter reset. Voila!

Coming soon: the Bersa BP9cc and also in .40. Go to Bersa's website and scope them out. They are due soon, just waiting on ATF's approval. These should be fantastic if its like other Bersas.

The Caracal Subcompact, next year. This is going to be 23.5mm wide, in subcompact format, yet hold 13 rounds with a flush fit magazine, and with adapter, it will be able to accommodate the full size mags as well. This has the absolute shortest reset I have every encountered. It specs as an 8mm pull, but that is initially. This gun will rock.

The HK P7 really shouldn't have been included, as it is too dated. Yeah in the 70's and 80's it was trim, but by today's standards it is clunky, heavy, nothing special.

 

[usp9]

The HK P7 really shouldn't have been included, as it is too dated. Yeah in the 70's and 80's it was trim, but by today's standards it is clunky, heavy, nothing special.

So when the OP said;

"Is there a pistol the size of the Kahr with a much shorter trigger pull? I'm a lefty, so any suggested pistol needs to be lefty-friendly. Any action type would be acceptable, if it has a - better for me - trigger"

...he really meant something else?

 

[Rail Driver]

+1 on the EMP. I don't own one, but it's probably the nicest 9mm I've ever shot.

 

[hardluk1]

Skylerbone I understand. It takes some time to find just the right handgun for each person. I grew up shooting revolvers and then staterted carry'n a small frame taurus. Take a while to like it. if your a big tall guy would can hide about any handgun on your body. You might want onlt a sa 1911 or there new again 10mm delta pistol. Just got to try till your find what each likes best. I still hunt with a DW 44 mag and 357 but now carry a nice small pistol. But I do have 26 years of carry'n small guns and one thing has never changed for me. Double Action only. Being profisient with different types of handguns is just takeing time to shot.

 

[9mmepiphany]

So when the OP said;

"Is there a pistol the size of the Kahr with a much shorter trigger pull? I'm a lefty, so any suggested pistol needs to be lefty-friendly. Any action type would be acceptable, if it has a - better for me - trigger"

...he really meant something else?

I'm reading this and thinking he should be looking at a H&K P7 too...it's grip would certainly help fill his hands. If the PSP or M8 are still too small, the M13 should be perfect

 

[Skylerbone]

A few reference photos for fun. I haven't had to master the Kahr, bought it for my father but I have put roughly 50 rounds through it. The target was mortally wounded but it wasn't my finest hour. Pops kept it to a 3" group at 15 yards and preferred it to my Smith both trigger wise and shooting wise.

Colt Govt. 1911 and Kahr CW9

S&W M&P 9c and Kahr CW9

The M&P is shown with the large insert making it look much fatter than the Kahr but it does slim down a tad bit with the smaller one.

I still say keep it, train out to 15 yards and so long as you're on paper it will get the job done. More practice, smaller paper.

 

[averagebear]

Some of My Choices

I've sent something north of 500,000 rounds downrange, many of them thanks to US taxpayers. Looking back, most of the triggers were single action. My action order of preference is single action, traditional double action, striker double action, then double action only.

Now, I think something like a Walther P99c or Taurus 709 could be the way to go. These pistols may be small enough to suit my size requirements. My favorite pistols that we currently have are a Beretta PX-4, Taurus 1911, Kimber 1911, a Sig P239, and Taurus Millenium Pro.

If it was slimmer and didn't have batwing, fingerbiting safeties, the TDA Beretta PX-4 would be a great choice. Oh, hell, there are so many almost-right pistols for me. Damn. Decisions, decisions.

 

[Skylerbone]

Here's a reference pic of what's happening with us big mitt guys. The Kahr's trigger breaks very close to the frame so picture how far we have to scrunch up that trigger finger. It almost qualifies as a bayonet!

 

[9mmepiphany]

Your fingers aren't that much longer than mine (less than the length of the slide lock notch in the slide)...I have my trigger finger slightly curled


With your arm at you side, is the middle of the slide in line with your elbow? The Kahr seems slightly rotated outboard.

If you extend you index finger slightly away from the side of the frame, your trigger finger won't be as cramped

 

[Skylerbone]

Used my phone for the pic at stretched arms length, that's why my nails were turning color. My wrist was bent to nearly 90 degrees to get the shot (not the best form).

Still strongly considering buying one for myself, especially at the price. I wouldn't use it for hostage rescue but that's my shooting and no fault of the pistol. I think I would consider a sleeve of some sort if it comes to that though I normally prefer nothing that might interfere with function be it mag release or mag changes.

 

[usp9]

I think I would consider a sleeve of some sort if it comes to that though I normally prefer nothing that might interfere with function be it mag release or mag changes.

Here's a picture of the Pachmayr sleeve which is short enough that it won't interfere with the mag release or mag changes. There are several styles of sleeve available. So long as it's the proper size it shouldn't be a problem. That's a P9, same size as the CW9.

 

[gotigers]

Walther PPS. I've had mine 16 months and put 1200+ round thru it. No issue. It is accurate and i can shoot it all day. Very comfortable compact to shoot.

 

[Mudinyeri]

If you're used to striker-fired pistols like Glocks, XD variants and the like, you'll probably like the Walther PPS more than you will the Kahr. The PPS is a nice quality gun with a very slender profile.

With that said, let's talk about accuracy for just a moment. Exactly how inaccurate are you with the Kahr? Are you able to put a full magazine +1 into a 6" circle at 7-10 yards? If so, that's what I would call "battlefield expedient" - meaning, you'll be able to stop a threat in a self-defense scenario.

On the other hand, if you're trying to shoot the bullseye out of an NRA pistol target at 25 yards, there are some techniques (some discussed in this thread) that can help you improve your accuracy when shooting a double-action trigger.