Think twice when you fill out a 4473...

[artherd]

bogie- is it still paranoia if they really are out to get you, found something on you, GOT YOU, and are holding you withought bail?

 

[Quartus]

Yep. Any suggestion that anything even REMOTELY looks like you believe in any conspiracies, ever, or even that you see a TREND, is to be met with derision, nay, even scorn!


That's what thinking people do, anyway.

 

[onerifle]

"You're only paranoid if you're wrong."

 

[sumpnz]

Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they aren't really out to get you.

Anyway, I predict that SCOTUS will rule 5-4 that foreign convictions do count when filling out the 4473. Scalia will likely author the (blistering)dissent, with Thomas, Kennedy, and Rhenquist joining. O'Connor will probably author the verdict with Souter, Ginsberg, Stevens, and Breyer joining.

[tinfoil] Then it will just be a matter of time before the UN or France or whoever figures out how to use that decision as the basis for forcing dis-armament upon us. Actually it will probably be the Belgians if I had to guess. They (IIRC) have a law on the books allowing them to charge foreigners with crimes againt humanity even if the events took place outside of Belgium, involved no Belgians, and basically had nothing whatsoever to do with Belgium. I also believe it allows for convictions in absentia. All they'd have to do is make private gun ownership a crime under that statute, and viola, all of us become criminals and can have our guns confiscated. [/tinfoil]

 

[nico]

actually, I was talking in terms of reality, instead of in terms of how things should be. If everything were the way it should be, noone would need locks on their doors and you wouldn't need to carry a gun for self defense (although you'd be able to exercize that right without restriction), but no matter how many times you say this:

If the gummit thinks there's reason to abrogate that right for a particular person, the burden of proving that is on THEM.

it won't make it reality. As much as it sucks (and that's a separate discussion), you have to get permission to own a handgun in the US. And if you don't think that's true, try buying a handgun from a gun store and see what happens when you refuse to fill out any paperwork. I completely agree that rapists should be removed from society (ie: death penalty), but how do you propose doing that with our current legal system that's convinced just about every waste of space can be "rehabilitated?"

That being said, I do agree with the points that were made about foreign convictions not being valid because they don't have the same legal standards and burdens of proof.

 

[Selfdfenz]

So if I were convicted of some crime in a foreign country that carried more than a one year sentence.....

even if that country didn't make me serve the entire time or even a day of it.....

and I said NO on the 4473....

I'm screwed even if the Court was run by the Ex Dictator of Iraq, whose clock we just cleaned.

I thought we didn't like him and his courts but I guess the law is the law is the law....by golly.

Serf-City.

S-

 

[Selfdfenz]

Oh I get it now.

The first step in rationalizing our legal system with the rest of the World to cut down on eventual paper work at the UN.

I'm sure the Bush AG and DOJ will weigh in on this in favor of the American.

S-

 

[Quartus]

how do you propose doing that with our current legal system that's convinced just about every waste of space can be "rehabilitated?"

You start by refusing the "That's the way it is and I can't do anything about it." mentality.

 

[joab]

Remeber the American who flipped off the Brazilian TSA type at the airport in Brazil. I believe he could have gotten more than a year. I just read a story about a guy who was pirated by the Dopminican Navy or Police (I can't remember which)He was released in liu of $7000.00 fine that he agreed to pay to stay out of a Dominican jail.