walking arsenal
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Have you looked into getting a Sig P232?
Thinking about a PPK for new CCW
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wlewisiii
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I had originally intended to buy a PPK in .32 ACP as my carry until I found my Mauser HSc for cheap. It's a good accurate pistol with more than enough capability for the vast majority of people's self defense needs. If you like it, you'll practice; if you practice, you'll be proficient; that will do you far more good than a bigger caliber that most won't shoot enough.
Go for it.
Go for it.
I think the PPK is a great gun and if you want to carry it concealed, you could do a lot worse. The trigger pulls I have tried were very heavy in DA and they would sometimes bite. As someone else suggested, I would get the PP, more barrel length equals more velocity, and it's not that much bigger. Then again, in this class I have settled on a Makarov, well actually 4. IMO, they are a better, more inexpensive option and I love them.
I love my PPK/S for carry. It's a newer S/W one. I carry guns for very different reasons than most guys here I believe, and prefer not to recommend carry guns (nor wives for that matter)
I find the gun a tad heavy.
I carry it because I can carry it safely and when I need it it feels like a gun that I can grab and shoot quickly. Simplicity is critical to me.
I'm not too fond of tiny switches or plastic. For some reason plastic guns feel less reliable to me. Silly, but that's the way I feel. I also like to wait 40-50 years before I decide a design is reliable.
I carry a 1911 and a PPK as back-up.
To me it was a compromise between a 238 and a 442 for carry. I was tired of carrying a cocked and locked gun all the time and I wanted a few more available rounds than a revolver.
I think knowing what I was comparing the choices to helps a bit. I still want a 238/938 and a 442.
I've only been forced in the line of duty to draw a few times, but when I have the gun had to be unholstered " NOW! NOW! NOW!". There was no "let me see, where is that pocket gun?" time. I don't even allow thumbreaks on my holsters anymore.
I find the gun a tad heavy.
I carry it because I can carry it safely and when I need it it feels like a gun that I can grab and shoot quickly. Simplicity is critical to me.
I'm not too fond of tiny switches or plastic. For some reason plastic guns feel less reliable to me. Silly, but that's the way I feel. I also like to wait 40-50 years before I decide a design is reliable.
I carry a 1911 and a PPK as back-up.
To me it was a compromise between a 238 and a 442 for carry. I was tired of carrying a cocked and locked gun all the time and I wanted a few more available rounds than a revolver.
I think knowing what I was comparing the choices to helps a bit. I still want a 238/938 and a 442.
I've only been forced in the line of duty to draw a few times, but when I have the gun had to be unholstered " NOW! NOW! NOW!". There was no "let me see, where is that pocket gun?" time. I don't even allow thumbreaks on my holsters anymore.
Well in another 14 years the basic design of the sig 238 will be about 40 years old. I'd buy the parts to replace plastic parts now though just in case they aren't still made then. You may also want to look for a Colt Pony instead of the 238 unless you can get over that "tiny switch" thing.
Silly is a nicer word than I would use. Far be it from me to suggest that one look at a particular guns track record and testing as opposed to a purely visceral reaction. I find this even more amusing in as much as a great many polymer framed guns are demonstrably more reliable than even properly built 1911 types. Even guys who really know and love the 1911, and who have a wealth of experience that likely eclipses everyone posting on this thread combined, say Larry Vickers, will tell you that. A feeling that plastic guns are less reliable is beyond silly. It is not only baseless but in many instances of comparing a particular polymer gun to a particular metal framed gun it is simply demonstrably untrue. I suppose we shouldn't be troubled by truth when it doesn't agree with our feelings and opinions though.
PRM
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Walther's Work
I've been shooting the PP series guns since the mid-1970s. Over that time, I've owned, 1 German PPK/S in .380, 1 Manurhin PP in .380, 2 Manurhin PPs in .32 and an Interarms PPK/S SS in .32.
First off - I prefer the .32 over the .380 in this platform. More comfortable to shoot, less recoil which provides faster follow-up shots and great accuracy. My two .380s would have an occasional hiccup (maybe, one out of every 100-150 rounds). Not frequent enough to be a concern, but it did happen. All of my .32s have been performers with thousand(s) of rounds fired through them with no issues.
I've never owned one of the new S&Ws. Early on, they had some QC issues, but that seems to have been resolved. Just a personal preference, but I like the traditional styling of the Interarms and European models.
Some guns just say it all about themselves. If you like them, none other will suffice. If you don't, any ole piece of characterless polymer will do.
Check out the Walther Forums for more info...
http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/pp-tp-series/
http://p38forum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18
I've been shooting the PP series guns since the mid-1970s. Over that time, I've owned, 1 German PPK/S in .380, 1 Manurhin PP in .380, 2 Manurhin PPs in .32 and an Interarms PPK/S SS in .32.
First off - I prefer the .32 over the .380 in this platform. More comfortable to shoot, less recoil which provides faster follow-up shots and great accuracy. My two .380s would have an occasional hiccup (maybe, one out of every 100-150 rounds). Not frequent enough to be a concern, but it did happen. All of my .32s have been performers with thousand(s) of rounds fired through them with no issues.
I've never owned one of the new S&Ws. Early on, they had some QC issues, but that seems to have been resolved. Just a personal preference, but I like the traditional styling of the Interarms and European models.
Some guns just say it all about themselves. If you like them, none other will suffice. If you don't, any ole piece of characterless polymer will do.
Check out the Walther Forums for more info...
http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/pp-tp-series/
http://p38forum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18
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I owned a used Interarms model for less than a week, and returned it after 2 range trips when I couldn't get it to function reliably with FMJ ammunition. I won't count that as a con on my list though, as all manufacturers occasionally turn out a lemon. I did not swap it 1-for-1, but chose to go with a Glock 26 instead after noting the following:
Pros:
-Classy looking pistol. Girlfriend at the time thought it was cute.
Cons:
-The DA trigger pull did not work for me.
-Sights were better than a 1911 GI model, but not by much. The red painted dots helped a little bit.
-Weight. Handling in the store, I felt certain that being an all steel gun and heavy for it's size would make recoil incredibly manageable. At the range this didn't prove true; rather, the blowback operation produced more felt recoil than I anticipated. While not unmanageable, this negated the one advantage to the extra weight. It just made it heavy for it's size, using an outdated mechanism that slowed follow-up shots compared to an LCP.
Given that there were a plethora of lighter weight options with similar size and larger caliber and capacity that I found easier to shoot well, I couldn't justify owning the pistol for a defensive role. As a range pistol it was shootable but only marginally enjoyable. I wasn't enamored with it other than the aesthetics. In the end that just wasn't enough to outweigh the subjective cons I listed above.
Bottom line: Great for it's time, with much to appreciate for a collector. Not a bad pistol, but I found more suitable models for me that fulfilled the PPK's intended purposes much better. YMMV.
Pros:
-Classy looking pistol. Girlfriend at the time thought it was cute.
Cons:
-The DA trigger pull did not work for me.
-Sights were better than a 1911 GI model, but not by much. The red painted dots helped a little bit.
-Weight. Handling in the store, I felt certain that being an all steel gun and heavy for it's size would make recoil incredibly manageable. At the range this didn't prove true; rather, the blowback operation produced more felt recoil than I anticipated. While not unmanageable, this negated the one advantage to the extra weight. It just made it heavy for it's size, using an outdated mechanism that slowed follow-up shots compared to an LCP.
Given that there were a plethora of lighter weight options with similar size and larger caliber and capacity that I found easier to shoot well, I couldn't justify owning the pistol for a defensive role. As a range pistol it was shootable but only marginally enjoyable. I wasn't enamored with it other than the aesthetics. In the end that just wasn't enough to outweigh the subjective cons I listed above.
Bottom line: Great for it's time, with much to appreciate for a collector. Not a bad pistol, but I found more suitable models for me that fulfilled the PPK's intended purposes much better. YMMV.
PPK is on my "overrated pistols of all time" list.
If I must have all metal, then SIG P290 or P239 is what I'd go for.
There is also a P230 option, which is pretty similar to PPK, but I don't like that style of pistol. It's not just the looks, PPK has a reputation for slide bite.
If I must have all metal, then SIG P290 or P239 is what I'd go for.
There is also a P230 option, which is pretty similar to PPK, but I don't like that style of pistol. It's not just the looks, PPK has a reputation for slide bite.
We've gone over this many times, I will add my usual answer to your question. I carried a walther PPK's, German made 1976 model in 380, for 20 yrs. Mainly because they were the smallest thinnest guns in a decent "barely" "caliber" that you could find in the 70's other than a snubby, which still was wider and carried only 5 rounds.
In modern times there are too many alternatives that you can find in larger better calibers, like the XDS, which happens to be my pocket carry.
380 is ok at close range and the gun is accurate. What it is not is, reliable. If you go through the many threads on this and other forums, some ware between 30 and 50 percent of people who owned these guns had either FTF, or Stovepipes, with them. I had 2 and that was enough, both were during a combat course when I shot competitively as a younger man.
I sent the gun back to a gunsmith, who specialized in these guns, and to the factory. I never felt safe with it after that.
You will find a thread I read about a week ago on the same subject, and it was about 50/50, perhaps the sig 230 might be a better decision. The safety is just a decocker, no one walks around with a PPK or PPK's on safe, the double action is about 14 lbs., "if I remember" and the single less than half that, so it takes some time to get used to the difference.
They are very accurate because of the blowback design, and nice looking. The sights are poor, but ok for a belly gun.
I had S&W adjustable sights put on mine, it had been customized by a shop that only sold walthers, in Roslyn LI, back in the day. Nickel plated," factory", and cocobolo grips. Stunning gun. Michael Britt, was the guys name
Some say there were very few factory nickel plated guns, but this guy was a German who claimed they were done for him, so who knows, it was a great job if aftermarket.
In modern times there are too many alternatives that you can find in larger better calibers, like the XDS, which happens to be my pocket carry.
380 is ok at close range and the gun is accurate. What it is not is, reliable. If you go through the many threads on this and other forums, some ware between 30 and 50 percent of people who owned these guns had either FTF, or Stovepipes, with them. I had 2 and that was enough, both were during a combat course when I shot competitively as a younger man.
I sent the gun back to a gunsmith, who specialized in these guns, and to the factory. I never felt safe with it after that.
You will find a thread I read about a week ago on the same subject, and it was about 50/50, perhaps the sig 230 might be a better decision. The safety is just a decocker, no one walks around with a PPK or PPK's on safe, the double action is about 14 lbs., "if I remember" and the single less than half that, so it takes some time to get used to the difference.
They are very accurate because of the blowback design, and nice looking. The sights are poor, but ok for a belly gun.
I had S&W adjustable sights put on mine, it had been customized by a shop that only sold walthers, in Roslyn LI, back in the day. Nickel plated," factory", and cocobolo grips. Stunning gun. Michael Britt, was the guys name
Some say there were very few factory nickel plated guns, but this guy was a German who claimed they were done for him, so who knows, it was a great job if aftermarket.
I went on another adventure to find a small carry auto pistol for me. What I found was something from a manufacturer that I never ever considered because I do not like there larger guns.
But the Sig P938 felt good, was in 9mm, and concealed very nicely. I now have to shoot it.
If it shoots good, I think I am going with a Sig P938.
But the Sig P938 felt good, was in 9mm, and concealed very nicely. I now have to shoot it.
If it shoots good, I think I am going with a Sig P938.
MagnumWill
Member
I think my next carry gun will be along the lines if a 938. U-235 nailed it, something everyone else didn't seem to consider. I agree with him, since a good friend of mine carried a PPK, and got rid of it for that same reason: it's VERY heavy for only throwing a .380 auto. Even in a CB holster it had the perception of weighing as much as my New Agent 1911 3" in .45. He now has a Kahr instead. But back on the PPK, I also had trouble with the trigger. It was a very good trigger; just the change from DA to SA was incredible. It was like 14# straight down to 8#. The sights were very good for target practice, though - it's an extremely accurate pistol for its size. As a quick-draw CCW with a predictable trigger, easy to use under pressure sights, adequate power and capacity, and overall weight, it most certainly is not IMO. It was a great carry pistol in 1971 when there wasn't a plethora of options today.
I am really glad I went backbronthw store. I totally missed the p938 the other day. I am saving to get that pistol.
I am also going to own an Arkansas PPK one day as well. Possibly a .32 ACP. I like the .32 cal cartridges. I carry on everyday.
I am also going to own an Arkansas PPK one day as well. Possibly a .32 ACP. I like the .32 cal cartridges. I carry on everyday.
German guns are not "overly thought out". Just like anything else some will fit you and others won't. In general pistols from Walther, Sig, Mauser, etc are generally very good.
However, I have a Walther PP, and I don't really like it, especially to shoot. While only in .32 ACP it stings my hand, feels awkward and the safety works opposite to my other pistols. I don't find it particularly accurate for me either. It sits in my gun safe.
In this class of pistol I much prefer my Makarovs. Like others have said, consider the newer, sub-compact 9MM's like the Walther PPS, and Sig P938.
However, I have a Walther PP, and I don't really like it, especially to shoot. While only in .32 ACP it stings my hand, feels awkward and the safety works opposite to my other pistols. I don't find it particularly accurate for me either. It sits in my gun safe.
In this class of pistol I much prefer my Makarovs. Like others have said, consider the newer, sub-compact 9MM's like the Walther PPS, and Sig P938.
Goju
Member
What about the all steel Kahr K9 as a potential option? A very slim package in a form factor not much larger than the Walther, throwing a full power 9mm with a very sweet DA trigger.
...or, if price is of no concern, just get a P7M8 on the secondary market. Other than the unique manual of arms, everyone who has ever shot mine has just loved it....
...or, if price is of no concern, just get a P7M8 on the secondary market. Other than the unique manual of arms, everyone who has ever shot mine has just loved it....
Rubber_Duck
Member
The PPK has an atrocious DA trigger, the safety operates "backwards" versus a 1911 or Makarov, and it has snappy recoil for a .380. I'd rather carry a locked-breech design like the Colt Mustang or Colt .380 Government. Oh, and lack of a slide release lever would relegate it to "range-only" status for me. Looks classy though, definitely a collector's piece.
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I carry a Taurus J Frame now. So the DA trigger pull is nothing I am not use to already. Trust me.
Also the safety on a PPK is not a safety. It is a de-cocker, and with a 14# DA pull for the first round it is made to carry in the ready position just like a revolver.
I have been chocking on the the cost of the SIG. Jeez.. I don't think that it is worth $700.00. I am sorry. I like it, and I want it, but I'd buy a new rifle and keep the J Frame before I'd pay $700.00 for a mini-9mm.
I had a buddy that wanted to seem me his Kahr. We went to shoot it, and he warned me about HPs not feeding all the time. He was right. So I passed on it despite the $200.00 he wanted for it.
I think I have found a gun in the price range I can afford without making any moves, and also give me that PPK feel. It has been mentioned here in this thread also. It is the Bersa Thunder 380 CC model. Eight + 1 of Winchester PDX sounds like a good carry piece. I know that my .32 H&R Mag with 100 grain XTP @ 1000 fps gets about 9" of penetration after hitting bone. I figure the .380 will get a little less, but will give better temporary cavity damage in a SD situation. It is light, and will fit on my side better than the J Frame. Easier reloads for me. No matter how hard I try and practice the speed loaders just don't make the time that a magazine does when it comes to reloads.
I am just having a change of heart. I love my revolvers, but I am looking at what else is out there now.
Also the safety on a PPK is not a safety. It is a de-cocker, and with a 14# DA pull for the first round it is made to carry in the ready position just like a revolver.
I have been chocking on the the cost of the SIG. Jeez.. I don't think that it is worth $700.00. I am sorry. I like it, and I want it, but I'd buy a new rifle and keep the J Frame before I'd pay $700.00 for a mini-9mm.
I had a buddy that wanted to seem me his Kahr. We went to shoot it, and he warned me about HPs not feeding all the time. He was right. So I passed on it despite the $200.00 he wanted for it.
I think I have found a gun in the price range I can afford without making any moves, and also give me that PPK feel. It has been mentioned here in this thread also. It is the Bersa Thunder 380 CC model. Eight + 1 of Winchester PDX sounds like a good carry piece. I know that my .32 H&R Mag with 100 grain XTP @ 1000 fps gets about 9" of penetration after hitting bone. I figure the .380 will get a little less, but will give better temporary cavity damage in a SD situation. It is light, and will fit on my side better than the J Frame. Easier reloads for me. No matter how hard I try and practice the speed loaders just don't make the time that a magazine does when it comes to reloads.
I am just having a change of heart. I love my revolvers, but I am looking at what else is out there now.
pockets
Member
I love my .380 PPK/s. It fits my hand very well, cycles 100% reliably, accurate, etc.
However, MY K-T PF9 is the same basic size but thinner, is far lighter, has been 100% reliable, and is chambered for 9x19. There are tons of other similar alternatives also.
There is probably no gun design that I like as much as the Walther PP series...a beautiful design. But today there simply are too many modern choices for carry guns that are lighter, more powerful, and every bit as reliable....some even look good.
Honestly, I don't care what my concealed carry gun looks like....no one sees it but me.
.
However, MY K-T PF9 is the same basic size but thinner, is far lighter, has been 100% reliable, and is chambered for 9x19. There are tons of other similar alternatives also.
There is probably no gun design that I like as much as the Walther PP series...a beautiful design. But today there simply are too many modern choices for carry guns that are lighter, more powerful, and every bit as reliable....some even look good.
Honestly, I don't care what my concealed carry gun looks like....no one sees it but me.
.
montanaoffroader
Member
I've fired a couple of PPK's, and they fit me just fine. Both were chambered in .380 and I had no trouble with either one. The first one is an Interarms version and it belongs to one of my best friends, we have put several thousand rounds throught it with no problems. The other is a stainless PPK/S belonging to my wife's uncle, seemed to shoot okay. For some reason the Interarms gun feels better to me, can't say why, it just does. 
If you like the way it shoots, then by all means get the PPK. I would have no qualms at all about carrying one.
If you like the way it shoots, then by all means get the PPK. I would have no qualms at all about carrying one.
Ppk is a good gun
EB,
I bought a WALTHER PPK in .32ACP last year. It was worn, a pre-war model made in 1937. It has the heavy trigger and small sights.
It surprised me with its accuracy and reliability. I have started carrying it because it is slightly smaller than my SIG 232 and handles better than my BERETTA Tomcat. I have fired it with 4 kinds of ball ammo plus FIOCCHI jhp and FEDERAL Hydro Shok without any feed problems.
The sights are too small, especially when compared to the SIG 232, which has easy to see and use night sights. The PPK sights are usable, but only just usable.
The double action trigger is much heavier and not as smooth as the SIG 232 or BERETTA 84. Again, it is still usable.
Against the COLT Mustang which I like and the SIG 238, it is the hands down winner. The COLT and SIG 238 are single action guns which I will not carry.
I can live with the heavy trigger and have no problem qualifying with the PPK. Since I am average size, the slide bite problem has never cropped up for me.
The lack of a slide release does not bother me as I SLINGSHOT the slide when I reload. If you use the slide release, it could be a problem.
The safety is NOT A DECOCKER! It is a real hammer dropping safety and YOU HAVE TO SET IT BACK TO THE FIRE POSITION TO SHOOT. I usually lower the hammer manually instead.
For reliability, only use WALTHR or MEC GAR magazines for carry.
My suggestion is to find a range or a friend to loan you one and then evaluate it on the range.
Jim
EB,
I bought a WALTHER PPK in .32ACP last year. It was worn, a pre-war model made in 1937. It has the heavy trigger and small sights.
It surprised me with its accuracy and reliability. I have started carrying it because it is slightly smaller than my SIG 232 and handles better than my BERETTA Tomcat. I have fired it with 4 kinds of ball ammo plus FIOCCHI jhp and FEDERAL Hydro Shok without any feed problems.
The sights are too small, especially when compared to the SIG 232, which has easy to see and use night sights. The PPK sights are usable, but only just usable.
The double action trigger is much heavier and not as smooth as the SIG 232 or BERETTA 84. Again, it is still usable.
Against the COLT Mustang which I like and the SIG 238, it is the hands down winner. The COLT and SIG 238 are single action guns which I will not carry.
I can live with the heavy trigger and have no problem qualifying with the PPK. Since I am average size, the slide bite problem has never cropped up for me.
The lack of a slide release does not bother me as I SLINGSHOT the slide when I reload. If you use the slide release, it could be a problem.
The safety is NOT A DECOCKER! It is a real hammer dropping safety and YOU HAVE TO SET IT BACK TO THE FIRE POSITION TO SHOOT. I usually lower the hammer manually instead.
For reliability, only use WALTHR or MEC GAR magazines for carry.
My suggestion is to find a range or a friend to loan you one and then evaluate it on the range.
Jim
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I like the feel of a PPK/S and have one in SS, but it is too heavy for CCW in my opinion. Check out the PA-63 which is a copy of the Walther. East German police versions were released cheap after the wall went down. These are quality firearms that shoot surprising well and actually use the 9X18 round which is a little more power than the 380.
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