Thinking about another modification to my FAL

[Nightcrawler]

A bunch of us went shooting on Labor Daybor, and I brought along my FAL and a few hundred rounds.

My rifle choked through the last of my lot of bad South African ammo; this stuff had been giving me nothing but grief; the very last of it had my rifle malfunctioning every other round almost.

I then switched to my Georgia Arms Canned Heat, which ran like a top and ended the malfunctioning. At $440 per thousand, it's the cheapest non-steel-cased .308 I was able to find, save Indian. I've heard enough horror stories about the Indian to scare me off, and frankly, the bad SA I've been dealing with has been frustrating enough to make me leery of buying ammo with a bad rep.

Anyway, at the big machine gun shoot in April, I lost my handguard screw (which has subsequently been replaced with a nice shiny one from Home Depot). While firing, my (now taped together) handguards slid forward, and the hot gas block cut into them like a hot knife through butter, leaving a patch of melted plastic on the barrel.

Well, about 200 rounds into my shooting and that plastic started to smoke. I figure it'll all burn off eventually. There isn't much; I scraped as much off as I could without scratching the park job off.

Holy hell do those plastic handguards get hot, though. Not as bad as the old STG steel handguards that used to be on there, but you've got to be careful and make sure your hand isn't covering the ventral ventiliation holes, as one of my friends discovered.

So I got to thinking...I wonder if the DSA Rail Handguards wouldn't allow for better barrel cooling?

Additionally, having the rails covered with the plastic protectors would put some distance between the barrel and the surface that my hands contact, meaning the handguards wouldn't get so hot.

I could go with a vertical foregrip, but I'm not fond of them. I would be able to bolt crap on if I got the urge, though. A light is the only thing I can think of that'd be useful, and I can't really think of a lot of uses for that, realistically. (But then again, realistically I've yet to actually need my rifle.)

Hmm. The part is expensive, so this isn't going to be a "rush out and buy it" purchase. I wonder how much weight it adds and how it'll affect the balance of the rifle.

Another possibility would be a heavier barrel, but DSA doesn't make a 16" medium contour barrel chambered for .308, so I'd have to custom order it. I was lucky to get the barrel I've got, and those are pretty expensive too (plus I'd have to have someone install it).

Just musing.

 

[Ian Sean]

Problems with SA? What kind of malfunctions were you having?

Very curious, I have burned through thousands (literally) of SA with no problems in my FAL's, Cetme and 1919....other an initial gas system adjustment with the FAL (some of the SA is loaded a little light in my opinion) I have had no problems with it at all.

I am still sitting on a few thousand of SA, what was the headstamp of the batch giving you trouble?

With rapid and constant fire, the handguards are going to get hot....don't know much about the DSA ones you posted, but they are aluminum...so I would expect them to get hot like the old stamped steel ones. But...they sure are pretty!

 

[iamkris]

Seems like an awfully spendy way to keep your hands cool. The RIS would be fine if you want to hang all manner of crap off of your rifle...but $240 to keep your hands cool? I'll grant you they certainly do look cool, though.

You can spend about $50 to replace the Belgian handguards. Does anyone make heat shields for the insides of those? Can anyone fashion them for you?

 

[Ash]

The Israeli handguards do a good job for me (as long as you hold on the wood and not the metal).

Ash

 

[ny32182]

I'm also a little puzzled by your SA problems... I've shot a decent bit of it with no issues.

Anyhow, my FALs have the plastic Belgian type handguards. On my 16", I swapped out the factory metal STG-58 guards for DSA plastic Belgian style, mainly because of weight. The FAL is a heavy beast, and adding a machined aluminum handguard isn't going to help its case as far as that goes.

I was under the impression that another reason that people switch from metal to plastic was to keep their hands cool. I would think the rail system would keep the barrel cooler, but at the expense of heating up the handguard, and therefore your hands. Kind of like a heat sink. The rail panel covers should help with that, of course. Overall, I'm not sure that adding a rail system is going to get the results you are after though. If you are getting it that hot, maybe try using a glove on your support hand?

 

[Nightcrawler]

Here's the thing; the rail handguards are metal, yes, but they'll have plastic rail covers over where I'm going to be grasping them. The rails will allow better cooling of the barrel and there'll be a bit more distance between the barrel and the plastic that I'm holding. I'm more concered with allowing the barrel to cool than the handguards at any rate.

I've also been batting the idea of adding a weapon light, or at least giving myself the option, but I'm not sure on that. Most likely, unless I decide to go that route, I'll stick with my plastic handguards. (They're Penguin.)

All I know about the South African ammo I had was that it was 1980 production. I've never had any problems with South African before, other than it was lower powered than the Portugese I used before it. This last lot, though...inconsistent recoil, inconsistent ejection, failures to extract (because of insufficient gas pressure), etc. Since these malfunctions did not occur with other ammo that I tried (Federal soft points, someone else's Lake City surplus, and my own Georgia Arms) I can only conclude that that last batch of ammo I had was bad.

No one else that I know of has had problems like this, so it's probably a fluke. Just lucky, I guess.

 

[W.E.G.]

Use LOCTITE on all FAL handguard screws, or you can count on them unscrewing at inopportune moments.

In the meantime, and on the subject of hot handguards, may I recommend a chicken mitt?

 

[Father Knows Best]

I have a 1913 rail on the bottom of my SA58 Para Carbine's handguard. It was on the rifle when I bought it two years ago, but I never mounted anything to it. I recently ordered a Grippod that should be here soon. It will give me something to hold onto when the forearm gets hot, and also provide an extendable, lightweight bipod (7 ounces!). I'll let you know how it works.

In general, I'm not a fan of forearms festooned with rails. They tend to be heavy, uncomfortable, expensive, and are an invitation to hand a lot of stuff on the front of your rifle that you really don't need. IMNSHO, one rail is all you need. If you can't put whatever it is on that one rail, you don't need really need it.

FYI, DSA makes a free float handguard, too. I can't recall whether it is vented or not, but a vented free float handguard would probably be about the best solution for cooling.

Your cheapest and most effective solution overall, though, is to buy a glove.

 

[El Tejon]

Is there a Badger mitt? If so, the money order is in the mail today!

 

[Bwana John]

I like the Imbel fiberglass handguards best for for keeping the barrels heat from affecting you.
The "plastic" PSAW are not as nice for heat insulation

 

[Ian Sean]

This last lot, though...inconsistent recoil, inconsistent ejection, failures to extract (because of insufficient gas pressure), etc. Since these malfunctions

That is the beauty of the FAL...when you come across a batch of lower powered ammo...you adjust the gas system a notch or two to compensate for it.

Very common with the SA, very often it is lower powered, and it needs a little more gas to operate. I don't think there was anything "wrong" with the ammo....you just identified a standard low pressure problem and you need to adjust the gas port a notch or two.

 

[W.E.G.]

Is there a Badger mitt? If so, the money order is in the mail today!

They are available in pairs. Custom order only.

 

[kfranz]

Tell 'em what it is, W.E.G. Chicken mitts is where it's at boys.

 

[AndyC]

*slaps forehead* I knew I'd forgotten a vital component when I built my FAL

 

[erict]

I had the DSA rail on my FAL. If you get it, make sure and get the plastic handguard covers for the bottom rail. It never got terribly hot or anything but those picatiny grooves aren't comfy on the old digits.

 

[Nightcrawler]

I don't think there was anything "wrong" with the ammo....you just identified a standard low pressure problem and you need to adjust the gas port a notch or two.

You know, it's not like I didn't think to adjust the gas system. When the ammo won't run at "1", and some rounds recoil more than others (from the same 140 round battle pack), I'm gonna go ahead and say that there was something wrong with the ammo.

Plus the constant stovepiping, which, again, doesn't seem to occur with any other ammo. Extractor's brand new, gas port was drilled out by a gunsmith for better operation with the short barrel (plus he found that my gas piston was dragging on the nut in the receiver and opened that up to). Problems with this batch, and only this batch, continued. All other ammunition runs fine.

 

[Correia]

I don't think there was anything "wrong" with the ammo....

Uh, nope. 'Fraid you're wrong on that count. I was there. Recoil from round to round was drastically different. When round A. goes BOOM, and round B. goes Pop, from out of the same box, you've got some goofy ammo.

I know a little teeny bit about FALs. He would have needed to be able to tell the future in order to preemptively adjust the gas system for each shot.

Of all the millions of rounds of South African imported, is it a shock that there were some bad battle packs? It isn't like Nightcrawler said that the sun rose in the north this morning, so give the guy a break.

 

[Red Tornado]

It's karma getting in your ammo. You're out shooting when you're supposed to be writing thrilling novels for our amusement.

I really can't add anything to the discussion other than, oooooo chicken mitt. Good luck with future ammo purchases, though. I'm another who's had great luck with the SA, so it must have just been bad luck. Now that your bad ammo luck is out of the way, you're due some MOA surplus.
RT

 

[HorseSoldier]

I've got the DSA rail system on my Para, and am pretty happy with it. In answer to the questions you raised:

1) Heat dissipation: I do think it helps to a degree, but running a couple hundred rounds through a FAL is going to make for a hot barrel, regardless. You obviously won't have to worry about the gas block melting through your hand guard, but the rail system can get hot enough to be uncomfortable. Plastic panels over it will help, but you can still find some hot metal with ungloved hands.

For me, for precision I shoot with plastic covers on the rails. For high round count sessions, I go with a forward pistol grip. And gloves. (But then that's why I shoot with issue army guns, so I'm not against using them.)

2) Weight and balance: I'm not sure on the overall weight of the rail system, but I feel like the carbine length one was fairly close to the weight of the DSA scope mount (which is, of course, a big old chunk of steel). With a DSA scope mount on my Para as well, I don't find the balance to be front heavy or anything.

 

[iamkris]

As for mounting a light, I got the DSA rail and mounted it on the left side so my thumb naturally hits the momentary switch with a normal forearm grip.



I'll also add that if it is only a light you are thinking about adding, the rail system seems like huge overkill. I have a RIS on my M4-gery and even with a light and a vertical grip, there are a lot of rails empty...and the dang thing really hurts to hold on to unless you put all those protectors on. Then you've succeeded in adding a lot of weight to the rifle.

 

[Nightcrawler]

That DSA rail will bolt through the side ventilation ports also? Hmm. I didn't know that. That might be a lighter, much less expensive option. How solid is it? Obviously it'll work with a "pistol" light, but will it work with one of the larger, heavier lights from, say, Surefire?

 

[iamkris]

I'm using a Viking mount with a Surefire G2. It is quite solid...I haven't personally mounted a "rifle-sized" light like a Pentagon but from what I could tell it would hold up to it pretty well.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Here's another thought. Do they make a 7.62mm Noveske "Krink" brake? I can't help but wonder if that wouldn't be just the ticket for a shorty .308. I could swear I saw a picture online of a FAL with one mounted.

Failing that, Yankee Hill flash hider? Smith Enterprises? Who likes what and why?

 

[Davo]

$440 per thousand

That makes me want to scream. Wait I just did...on the inside.

 

[Ian Sean]

You know, it's not like I didn't think to adjust the gas system. When the ammo won't run at "1", and some rounds recoil more than others (from the same 140 round battle pack), I'm gonna go ahead and say that there was something wrong with the ammo.

In your initial post you made no mention of making any gas system adjustments orwhere the setting was at the start or finish, a common problem with the SA is it is loaded light (and it does have a good rep), so I thought that may have been it....sorry, I just tried to help.

I would like to know what headstamp code it was though...(like I said, I am still sitting on several thousand rounds).