Not too bad, usually fixed power is a good way to get good glass for cheaper than variable. At least from what I've noticed in my limited research.
Thinking of learning F-Class
- Thread starter Harrod
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Not too bad, usually fixed power is a good way to get good glass for cheaper than variable. At least from what I've noticed in my limited research.
xphunter
Member
The SWFA SS are good optics for the price
MislMan
Member
Clarity is good with clear resolution at the ranges we have fired so far. Limited to 200 yards thus far. We bought these planning to get started with to shoot F-class open. Haven't been "qualified" on our clubs' 600 yard range yet so can't comment on longer ranges but I am anticipated decent performance from the scope. If we follow through further into F-class we will probably invest in higher quality scopes (NF 15-55 type) and maybe switch rifles but gotta start somewhere and finances mustbe watched. I have an interesting problem, buy something for my shooting and I have to buy something for the wifes shooting as well. So a Night Force scope becomes 2 scopes in heartbeat. Wife loves to spend money and already wants the NF, but not until we get to 600+ yards. Oh yeah, we always shoot using 32x power. No issues yet with mirage but it can be adjusted for by lowering magnification.
xphunter
Member
The Sightron S-III is very capable for being competitive at 600 and 1000 yards. I used the 8-32 S-III on my Open rig at Nats/World 3.5 years ago shooting at NRA Whittington Center and used the S-III 10-50 at 1K for TR (shot on a team).
The current NF comp scope is great, for lesser funds the Vortex Golden Eagle.
Also used the Kahles comp scope as well. All good glass
The current NF comp scope is great, for lesser funds the Vortex Golden Eagle.
Also used the Kahles comp scope as well. All good glass
I cannot understand the rational to spend $1500 to $2000 on a variable power rifle scope when a $400 fixed power one will do as well.
It's interesting that variable power scope specifications never state the image shift spread as power changes. I've measured near 1/2 MOA in a Nightforce; 3/4 MOA in a Leupold. Fixed power scopes don't have that problem.
It's interesting that variable power scope specifications never state the image shift spread as power changes. I've measured near 1/2 MOA in a Nightforce; 3/4 MOA in a Leupold. Fixed power scopes don't have that problem.
xphunter
Member
Bart,
Have you tested the new NF comp scope or the Golden Eagle?
The Berger SW Nat's are taking place right now and in both TR and Open new records at 600 yards.
Records will probably fall at 1000 yards as well.
At 600 yards this week, Dwayne Draggoo shot 200-15x, 200-15x, 200-14x (OPEN). That is 60 shots with 44 of them being in 3" or less and the other 16 being in 6" or less.
X-Ring is approx 3" at 600 yards and the 10 Ring approx 6" at 600 yards. Second place was 1-X less.
In TR: 200-10x, 199-10x, 200-12x. This is using a 308 Win. 599-32x and second place was 598-41x. The X-Ring and 10 Ring are the dimensions listed above.
At a 1000 yards the X-Ring is approx 5 inches/1/2 MOA and 10 Ring 10"/ 1MOA
I don't think these guys are having the problems with their scopes.
It could be they are not changing magnification during a relay either.
I know almost every High Master shooting this week, since 90% plus of them use my front rest and I shot with them at the Nats/Worlds. None of them use a fixed power at 6 and 1K.
I am not saying the scopes you tested don't have problems (very, very few use Leupold, and very few use the old NF BR scope anymore), I'm just saying you would be handicapping yourself with the scopes you are referring to today.
Have you tested the new NF comp scope or the Golden Eagle?
The Berger SW Nat's are taking place right now and in both TR and Open new records at 600 yards.
Records will probably fall at 1000 yards as well.
At 600 yards this week, Dwayne Draggoo shot 200-15x, 200-15x, 200-14x (OPEN). That is 60 shots with 44 of them being in 3" or less and the other 16 being in 6" or less.
X-Ring is approx 3" at 600 yards and the 10 Ring approx 6" at 600 yards. Second place was 1-X less.
In TR: 200-10x, 199-10x, 200-12x. This is using a 308 Win. 599-32x and second place was 598-41x. The X-Ring and 10 Ring are the dimensions listed above.
At a 1000 yards the X-Ring is approx 5 inches/1/2 MOA and 10 Ring 10"/ 1MOA
I don't think these guys are having the problems with their scopes.
It could be they are not changing magnification during a relay either.
I know almost every High Master shooting this week, since 90% plus of them use my front rest and I shot with them at the Nats/Worlds. None of them use a fixed power at 6 and 1K.
I am not saying the scopes you tested don't have problems (very, very few use Leupold, and very few use the old NF BR scope anymore), I'm just saying you would be handicapping yourself with the scopes you are referring to today.
I've not tested any scope on my home made test fixture in 20 years. My 1980's Weaver T20 on a 30-338 Win Mag put 30 bullets of two weights (190's and 200's) into about 5.5 inch at 1000 from an F class open position.
60 shots inside 6 inches at 600 is what USN rebuilt 7.62 Garands tested with new unprepped cases did with Sierra 190's did.
60 shots inside 6 inches at 600 is what USN rebuilt 7.62 Garands tested with new unprepped cases did with Sierra 190's did.
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xphunter
Member
30 rounds in 5 1/2 inches with two different bullet weights at 1000 yards is great shooting.
I have never shot 30 rounds for group at a grand.
Must've been awesome conditions and you would have to know your point of impact change when you switch Bullets to make those corrections to keep a group in that tight.
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
I am just a novice. I started shooting F-Class with my DPMS LR-308 with a heavy fluted barrel. Got a lot of 120 - 130 point shooting at 300 yards. No necessarily good, but I was a beginner and to this day I still consider myself the same. There are experts here, but wanted to interject the knowledge learned as a beginner who never shot long range in my life. I had a Vortex Viper 6-20 scope on top.
At the club where I shoot, 300 is the limit. We use a target that is supposed to mimic 600. Not sure that it actually does, but that's the jest of it. I did without a jacket or fancy stand. I got a nice stable front rest and rear bag. At first I didn't use a mat, but I did pick one up. I use the scope to spot. I used reloads with 168 grain match kings, LC Brass, Wolf Primers and IMR4895. All stuff the rifle already liked. With my skills, I figured it would be a while before my ammo or other tools came into play. Until i could shoot well the rest didn't so much matter. There are many beginners like me that participate. Some with hunting rifles and most with Savage 110's in 223. The scopes are usually in the $200 range. These people shoot 149 or better week after week. No fancy anything.
I would recommend start small and work you way though it. Make friends with those who do well to glean from them what you can. A high score week to week by someone means they have some experience and know what they are doing for the most part.
I have moved on to a Savage LRP in 6.5 Creedmoore. Use the same scope that was on the DPMS. No other mods to the rifle. Shot a 147 last time out with reloads. I am getting better.
At the club where I shoot, 300 is the limit. We use a target that is supposed to mimic 600. Not sure that it actually does, but that's the jest of it. I did without a jacket or fancy stand. I got a nice stable front rest and rear bag. At first I didn't use a mat, but I did pick one up. I use the scope to spot. I used reloads with 168 grain match kings, LC Brass, Wolf Primers and IMR4895. All stuff the rifle already liked. With my skills, I figured it would be a while before my ammo or other tools came into play. Until i could shoot well the rest didn't so much matter. There are many beginners like me that participate. Some with hunting rifles and most with Savage 110's in 223. The scopes are usually in the $200 range. These people shoot 149 or better week after week. No fancy anything.
I would recommend start small and work you way though it. Make friends with those who do well to glean from them what you can. A high score week to week by someone means they have some experience and know what they are doing for the most part.
I have moved on to a Savage LRP in 6.5 Creedmoore. Use the same scope that was on the DPMS. No other mods to the rifle. Shot a 147 last time out with reloads. I am getting better.
Not really. All shots were fired alternately; first a 190 then a 200 then a 190 ... and so on for 30 shots. Never touched adjustments on the scope. X ring's ten inches diameter. Plot's as close I could make it based on seeing the target with a 25X spotting scope. The pit crew told me it was measured about 5.5 inches extreme spread of all 30 shots. Not bad starting out with a cold barrel shooting once every 20 to 30 seconds. Wind probably caused horizontal spread. 190's with full length sized once-fired neck-turned cases, 200's with new unprepped unfired cases. Win 70 push feed action, Kreiger 1:12 twist 30" barrel, Weaver T20 scope.
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Berger.Fan222
Member
At 300 yards, that is a good first move. Figure out what you got before you start tweaking. 300 yards is not very demanding.
Jim Watson
Member
Really? It is still a one MOA ten ring.
xphunter
Member
Yes.
X-ring is 1/2 MOA
X-ring is 1/2 MOA
Jim Watson
Member
I know, but as my much more serious friend says, "Hold for tens, hope for Xs."
Berger.Fan222
Member
Yes, but wind effects are much smaller, and the needed elevation is fairly small. Just about any centerfire rifle in your gunsafe will keep you on the target at 300 yards; whereas, you start to need specialized scopes and mounts for the range of adjustment you need at 600-1000 yards. A .222 Rem or slow twist .223 can do well at 300 yards, but those light bullets get blown around a lot at 600 yards.
I've introduced a number of my buddies to F-Class. Most experienced riflemen will shoot in the 180s ( out of 200) in their first matches at 300 yards (90-95% of the possible points). This will allow them to build their skills with the equipment they have while deciding if they like it enough to invest in more specialized equipment to shoot at 600-1000 yards. At 600 yards, most need either a 20 MOA base and/or a scope with a larger adjustment range than many deer rifles have. Most shooters also give more attention to bullet BC at 600-1000 yards to reduce wind drift.
Once a shooter is consistently getting into the 190s (out of 200) at one distance, they are ready to shoot longer ranges. My buddies tend to use F-Class to grow our skills as riflemen and test the equipment we use for other sports (hunting, long range precision rifle, etc.) rather than acquiring special equipment for F-Class. For example, we tend to shoot F-Open off bipods with rifles much lighter than 22 lbs. We tend to compete with our personal best scores at distance rather than the guys with $4000 rifles.
It's a fun sport, but more fun if you resist the equipment race and focus on skill building as a rifleman.
xphunter
Member
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