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IWAC

IWAC

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I would like a lighter semi-automatic rifle ...something that could match what I used to do at 300 yards with my issued M1 carbine. Man-sized targets, no problem.

The AR-15 platform doesn't appeal much, and some of the cu$tom versions...WOW!:eek: it's all a matter of economic$, you know!
I am thinking of perhaps buying a kit, and building one, or for less aggro, and the very real possibility that I would have to take a box of parts to a gunsmith, and have him assemble it when finally I admit it is beyond my minimal mechanical abilities. (About 6 weeks from my wife's first mention.):eek:

Maybe the newer version of the Ruger Mini-14 would do. I have heard they can do acceptably well to 300 yards, and are probably~ 2 MOA firearms. That should be about minute of coyote up to that range, they are reliable, and able to use Military or civilian ammo. What's the diff, anyway?

I've also heard that the brace that attaches to the gas block and barrel does increase the accuracy.


Can anyone that has experience with either or both rifles steer offer suggestions to steer along the right path?

Thanx :)
 
AR-15...a much better rifle than the mini-14. But to stray from the norm of the 5.56 or .308 suggestions. I'm gonna throw the 6.5 Grendel into the conversation.
 
Hello IWAC,

I'm sorry, but I do not have a ton of experience with the mini 14. I do have some experience with the AR.

Right now is a buyers market for the AR. I've seen colt 6920's in the mid $700 to low $800 price range. I'd encourage you to consider the AR because prices are good, parts are easy to find locally, you can do a lot of work on them yourself, and mags are plentiful and cheap. The AR is also a very ergonomic, reliable rifle with tremendous aftermarket support.

My pitch for the AR is in no way a slight to the mini 14. I simply have more trigger time with ARs, and have noticed that parts seem easy to source.

Best of luck to you in the decision making process.
 
Recently we were putting my Mini14 on an 18" gong at 200 yards. The few ARs I have shot have been better than I am by far... Make an AR buddy, he will happily (in my experience) help you and you won't need a smith...

Greg
 
You can build a decent AR for less than a used Mini 14 will cost.

The biggest gripe many had with the Mini 14 was accuracy, but that had a lot to do with the cheap rear sight they had for many years. It wasn't very solid and could be easily wiggled around. Scopes fixed many accuracy woes for several Ruger owners I knew. The Ruger isn't a bad rifle, it's just seriously over-priced for what it is.

If you passed 8th grade shop class and pay attention to good instruction, YouTube can walk you through a build. Buying a complete lower and complete upper makes it as easy as slipping two pins. Buying a kit usually gets you a complete upper, the lower can be assembled in an hour by a novice with care. You have several options other than simply a "box of parts".

Like the others, I'd like to steer you toward the AR. If you are in North East Ohio, have a bench vise and promise coffee, I'll bring my tools and show you how to build it.
 
I have both the newer 580 series Mini 14 and several AR's. For your purposes, the AR.

The newer Minis fixed some of the worn machining, but they still suffer from wandering zero when the barrel gets warm (after a few mags). And it's still a half pound heavier than a basic light barrel AR. They are most reliable with factory Ruger mags, which are expensive. The rear sight is improved, but requires an allen wrench to adjust. Between the price of the gun and accurizing it you will spend more than an AR that's more accurate out of the box. They are fun to shoot though, and the Garand action is just cool.

That said, ARs are at rock bottom prices right now. They maintain better zero even when hot. Mags are cheap, and there are a plethora of high quality sights available. Basic garage tools are all you need to put together a lower to save some money, and then slap on a pre-assembled upper and shoot on. You can adapt an AR into many different styles to suit your needs.

I like both but for accuracy, cost, sights, and adaptability it's a no brainer.
 
No experience with the Mini, but from everything I've seen its a $400-500 rifle. It doesn't have the ergonomics, accessories, low prices, accuracy, reliability, or custom-ability that the AR does. It also doesn't have a HUGE following that can help you out if you encounter a problem. Probably not a bad rifle, but outclassed for sure.

What did you want to do with the rifle and whats your price range? Do you want a military-ish gun, or something more customized to hunting/longer range shooting? If you want something of the latter I've heard good things about the White Oak products.

If you're only shooting out to 300 yards or so any of the M4orgery style guns will be fine. Get a flat top so you can mount a scope and you're set. You can also get a rail to mount accessories, or go cheap and use the Magpul handguards to mount a light. If you want to save some money look at the S&W Sport, Ruger AR556, or the new Colt Expanse. You could also put something together, but I'd buy my first AR. I'd also look into some of the things that your rifle should come with but might not like staked gas key and castle nut.

I wouldn't even look at the RRA/Stag/Bushmaster/Olympic guns. You pay more and don't get much the economy models don't have. If you want to step up to a very good gun look at Colt, BCM, DD, Noveske, etc. I'd go with Colt or BCM since they are great guns at good prices. Since you mentioned the M1 carbine, I'd suggest getting the Colt 6720 or a BCM Lightweight/Enhanced Lightweight in mid-length.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6720

Out of stock now but a great price when they get back in stock.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-16-Mid-Length-Group-s/27.htm

Just to throw it out there, there is also the Russian/Chinese SKS.
 
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You should ask Mini 14 questions here---> Go to Rugerforums.net if you want the skinny on the mini. But hey, you can be like everyone else and take a 8th grade education and slap a AR together for 500 bucks and hope it will last 20 years and beyond. But with the quality of Ruger's customer service, it is well worth having one of there rifles, they will fix or replace your rifle with hardly any questions ask. I find them to be highly reliable, will shoot dry, eats anything you feed it, they can be modified, and there are a ton of accessories for the Mini. For people who say they are too expensive and cost way too much to modify are in the wrong hobby, I hunt with my rifles so they have paid me back. People also like to say when the barrel heats up they lose accuracy, but that is after a 20 round mag... And really, how many times do you need to shoot a coyote? These are not 3gun tournament rifles, but they will do what you are asking... A good 300 yard coyote shooter. In fact, every negative that has been said about the Mini 14, mine has done the complete opposite. I bought it used for 400 bucks (188 series) and re-barreled it for 320 bucks. I usually find Ruger mags on sale at gun shows that I have paid 25 bucks for. It has been modestly modified (no satellite GPS lazer lego accessories included), and is now a absolute tack driver. Like I said you can be like everyone else, or you can take a hobby a step further and make a good rifle into a great rifle. I promise if you put some money into your rifle you will be much happier with nice equipment.

Ruger Mini 14 heavy barrel/300 yard gong video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q98F59fzh_M
 
It's a tough question, because you describe the AR-15 to a T with your requirements, and then say you're not really interested in AR's.... Like everyone else, I would say build out a stripped lower, then pin on the upper that appeals to you most. Easy peasy and you'll wind up with an accurate reliable rifle for way , way less than whatever custom setups you've been looking at.
 
I have AR's and a Mini 14, if I wanted to hit a coyote at 300 yards I would grab an AR first.
 
The Ruger Mini-14, newer or not(except maybe an as yet proven Target. MSRP is a grand for a standard Ranch model. $1259 for a Target.), will be outshot by an issue M1 Carbine. However, it sounds like you want/need a .300 Blackout.
 
OP has admitted he has limited mechanical skills. To accurize a Mini he will need to take it to a gunsmith for swapping the barrel and gas block, and cleaning up the gritty trigger. So he will need to factor in those costs along with the price of the gun and the price of aftermarket parts.
 
Sunray said:
The Ruger Mini-14, newer or not(except maybe an as yet proven Target. MSRP is a grand for a standard Ranch model. $1259 for a Target.), will be outshot by an issue M1 Carbine.
Click to expand...

WHAT!?! :banghead:
 
HammsBeer said:
OP has admitted he has limited mechanical skills. To accurize a Mini he will need to take it to a gunsmith for swapping the barrel and gas block, and cleaning up the gritty trigger. So he will need to factor in those costs along with the price of the gun and the price of aftermarket parts.
Click to expand...

This is why I say go to the Ruger forums if you have Mini 14 questions. I'm using the same 20 year old gas block that came with my Mini 14 after the barrel swap. Yes it did take a gunsmith to re-barrel my Mini but it took less than an hour to do it, he charge me 90 bucks to install the 230 dollar barrel, I got to watch them install the barrel and got a education at the same time. As far as the trigger goes, you can get a trigger job or just learn how to pull the standard Mini 14 trigger, or just polish the trigger group yourself with some oil and 800 grit sandpaper. The only thing I did to my mini was re-barrel it, no trigger job, I did not bed the stock, there is no magic fairy dust sprinkled on it, just a way better barrel.

Mini 14 Barrel alternatives video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzzaIZ7WrcY
 
1911 guy said:
You can build a decent AR for less than a used Mini 14 will cost.

The biggest gripe many had with the Mini 14 was accuracy, but that had a lot to do with the cheap rear sight they had for many years. It wasn't very solid and could be easily wiggled around. Scopes fixed many accuracy woes for several Ruger owners I knew. The Ruger isn't a bad rifle, it's just seriously over-priced for what it is.

If you passed 8th grade shop class and pay attention to good instruction, YouTube can walk you through a build. Buying a complete lower and complete upper makes it as easy as slipping two pins. Buying a kit usually gets you a complete upper, the lower can be assembled in an hour by a novice with care. You have several options other than simply a "box of parts".

Like the others, I'd like to steer you toward the AR. If you are in North East Ohio, have a bench vise and promise coffee, I'll bring my tools and show you how to build it.
Click to expand...

I don't think there are any 8th grade shop classes anymore. The last one in my county closed down maybe 8 years ago.
 
Kame B., have you actually priced the Ruger Mini 14 lately? Maybe you got a smoking deal on one. Good for you. But for everyone else in the world, they are running 500 to 700 dollars used. Instead of screaming that we all hate Ruger (I actually kinda like the mini14), do some research and find out that what you see posted here in correct. A good AR can be built for a fraction of the cost of a comparable Ruger.

I took a quick perusal of gunbroker, etc. I found a beat up rifle for $425 and I also found listings as high as $1,400. There were other listing higher priced, but those were for multiple guns sold as a set or lot and merely included a mini 14.

Dollar for dollar, there is no possible way the Ruger is going to compete with a similar priced AR.
 
1911 guy said:
Kame B., have you actually priced the Ruger Mini 14 lately? Maybe you got a smoking deal on one. Good for you. But for everyone else in the world, they are running 500 to 700 dollars used. Instead of screaming that we all hate Ruger (I actually kinda like the mini14), do some research and find out that what you see posted here in correct. A good AR can be built for a fraction of the cost of a comparable Ruger.

I took a quick perusal of gunbroker, etc. I found a beat up rifle for $425 and I also found listings as high as $1,400. There were other listing higher priced, but those were for multiple guns sold as a set or lot and merely included a mini 14.

Dollar for dollar, there is no possible way the Ruger is going to compete with a similar priced AR.
Click to expand...

500 to 700 dollars on a slightly used Mini, I can see that, but a Mini 14 with the prefix of 197 and below should not had for no more than 500 bucks, if you know how to deal with the gun shop. There is always wiggle room when buying used guns. But my local Wal-Mart is selling a basic wood stock ranch rifle for 627 dollars brand new, and buds gun shop sells them from 700 to 800 dollars. But we can sit here a regurgitate all kinds of prices at each other, but like I said in post 10, " for people who complain about the prices of a rifle are in the wrong hobby". I got a mini because I like them, not because of what it cost. I say get both AR and Mini 14, but don't sit here and tell me there is no aftermarket support, mini's can not be accurized, the mini is unreliable, the mini only takes proprietary magazines... And don't tell me there is not a huge following for the Mini 14, just because it is not the high road forums doesn't mean the buck stops here.
 
The Mini-14 will do the job you describe. At a lower price point any decent AR will still out perform it. Magazines and all accessories will be far less expensive for an AR. From an economic standpoint I don't understand how they ever sell any Mini's. They aren't that bad, and years ago were about 1/3 the price of an AR. At that price point were a valid alternative. I just can't see paying $200 more for the Ruger and $40-$50 each for a magazine.
 
New mini's typically sell for about $700-$750, and a good AR with the right materials and specs will cost about the same nowadays. But the AR out-of-the-box accuracy will trump the mini, and ruger mags (the only ones worth buying) cost about $30+ while AR mags are $10. For 5-10 mags that's a $100-200 difference right there. Then mini rebarrelling and fees as described add another $300+. You'll have spent an extra $500 just to get the mini up to par with a typical AR. If you like project guns go for it, nothing wrong with that, but it sounds like the OP is on a budget and doesn't want to sink a bunch of time and money into this gun to get something accurate and light weight.
 
Well, guys, thanks for all the input, but, now I have questions...boy, do I ever!:) I have looked at some of the Palmetto State Armory kits, one for a very good-appearing price. Do I understand it right, that you get all the parts except the lower, which is the ATF's serialized "firearm", then buy the stripped lower, filling out the proper federal form, and you then install the parts from the kit, put it all together, and live happily ever after?
Additional cost for tools and/or instructional manual /dvd?

Soooo.. a "kit" like they currently offer for $399, then, maybe $80-100 for a lower, say $500+ tools. Put it together, and whattayou got? Something that will rival/exceed the accuracy/reliability and shoting enjoyment of a store bought AR or the Mini, or a really expen$ive tent stake?
Any prob using either Military.556 or commercial .223 ammo?

Thanx again.:)
 
For a first AR I suggest getting a prebuilt upper from a good company. BCM is a great place to start, or PSA premium line, or Spikes Tactical.

A stripped lower is the only part that needs to go through an FFL. The upper and all the parts to complete the lower can be shipped to your door. To assemble a lower you will need a ball peen hammer, a couple of punches, and a castle nut wrench. That's maybe $50 in tools and an hour or two. Plenty of videos on youtube showing you how to assemble a lower, it really is very simple. There are more technical details and tools to assemble an upper, so if you are just making one AR I suggest just buying a preassembled upper.
 
IWAC said:
I would like a lighter semi-automatic rifle ...something that could match what I used to do at 300 yards with my issued M1 carbine. Man-sized targets, no problem. ...
Click to expand...
So ... why not buy an M1 carbine? :)

I have a stainless 184- Mini14 that I purchased, used, in 1986. I do not know if it suffers from "stringing" after barrel heat-up because I have never used it to spend any extended period of time banging away at a piece of paper.

3-4 rounds to zero it and after that it only comes out when I might need/want to shoot something.

I haven't shot it much since buying my one and only "manufacturer" AR in 2002 (Bushmaster. I have also assembled 3 others since then ... would have been more but I am not a fan of DI).

It just seems easier for me to grab one of the ARs (run a dry patch thru the bore) and either a loaded mag or a bando of loaded mags before walking out of the basement door.

Given your Either/Or Choice, I would go with an AR, even though I prefer wood-stocked rifles. I think that your money would buy you more with the AR, especially considering the way in which you intend to use/enjoy it. ;)
 
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