This explains a lot about the 22lr issues

[Mike1234567]

^^^ He stated that he's stocking up. He didn't state that he's stocking up thousands of rounds. My thousands? I'm gonna plink the crap out of it... all I want.

 

[model4006]

Why does it need to be justified? Who cares why people buy thousands of rounds, who cares why they buy a gun in the first place? This is America, you don't need a reason. Saying that someone doesn't "need" thousands of rounds of ammo is no different from saying someone doesn't "need" an AR15, or "need" high capacity magazines. It has nothing to do with need, it's a personal choice.

 

[frankenstein406]

Not picking on you specifically but I've heard this before, about 22 ammo, and it always leaves me scratching my head. With 22 sold by the 100 or 325 or 525 pack.. one has to ask "how much ammo do you actually NEED to hunt with?"

Note that giving a justification like "hunting" gives equal justification to question the justification.

People who proclaim this while setting back thousands of rounds of 22 are either incredibly bad shots or take squirrel and rabbit by the truckload.

Our bag limits aren't sufficient to burn through one 325 round box of 22LR in a year, even if half the shots miss.

I'd rather someone tell me "I'm hoarding it" or "I shoot 2,000 rounds a month out of my tacticool 22 rifle", than lie and tell me "I'm stocking up for hunting." Unless they qualify it by saying "So my great-great-grandchildren can still have ammo to hunt with", "hunting" alone doesn't justify thousands of rounds of ammo.

That would be like saying why do you have so many guns all you need is a break action double gun.

Our season is ten a day through out the season not to mention you can also hunt rabbits ect at the same time. If family wants to come it's that's extra ammo and I also don't like having to re sight in a gun since the gun ranges close till summer.

Now I'm probably taking the animals by the truckload great now I'm hoarding dead animals...

 

[BullSlinger]

Mike wake up.

Ok Mike, I will spell it out for you.
If on all the forums you belong you convince others to order 22lr and all of them follow your example and get 11,000 rounds. That is over two million rounds that are not available on the market. It does not matter if you pay $1 a round.
So the shortage continues longer cuz you and your friends pulling this ammo off the market the scalpers have longer to sell. As you continue to sell others on the idea and they in turn do the same it gets worse. Get the picture now?
And remember, you are the guy that does not have a gun that even shoots 22lr and in your mind you are not part of the problem.

 

[Robbins290]

Knowing people that work at 4 walmart locations, they do hold ammo for them selves. 98% of the 22 ammo in those stores is sold to employees. Seen it with my own eyes more then once. And they get away with it

 

[frankenstein406]

Knowing people that work at 4 walmart locations, they do hold ammo for them selves. 98% of the 22 ammo in those stores is sold to employees. Seen it with my own eyes more then once. And they get away with it

Yeah this happen s at other stores to, managers don't seem to care.

 

[frankenstein406]

Ok Mike, I will spell it out for you.
If on all the forums you belong you convince others to order 22lr and all of them follow your example and get 11,000 rounds. That is over two million rounds that are not available on the market. It does not matter if you pay $1 a round.
So the shortage continues longer cuz you and your friends pulling this ammo off the market the scalpers have longer to sell. As you continue to sell others on the idea and they in turn do the same it gets worse. Get the picture now?
And remember, you are the guy that does not have a gun that even shoots 22lr and in your mind you are not part of the problem.

Well if he doesn't buy it how do you know a scalper won't buy it?

It's first come first serve, no soup for you!

 

[Jlr2267]

Why does it need to be justified? Who cares why people buy thousands of rounds, who cares why they buy a gun in the first place? This is America, you don't need a reason. Saying that someone doesn't "need" thousands of rounds of ammo is no different from saying someone doesn't "need" an AR15, or "need" high capacity magazines. It has nothing to do with need, it's a personal choice.

There is no need to justify it, I agree. I would also think that buying and re-selling needs no justification, after all, it *is* a free country. I (and others) simply pointed out that the "problem" in need of a fix is only made worse by the proposed solution.

 

[Ringer]

I have a few thousand rounds backordered at Midway. The stuff that had a projected date of 12/31/2013 now just says over due. The 1400 round bucket says June, 2014.

I think I have 3k to 4k on the shelf. Daughters and me can go through
300 or more in one range trip.

 

[Queen_of_Thunder]

"hunting" alone doesn't justify thousands of rounds of ammo.

Shooting is a perishable skill. One must practice on a regular basis to maintain that skill. When hunting you make sure you take the animal with one expertly placed shot. Now to make that kill with one shot takes practice and that means lots of ammo expended during practice sessions throughout the year to ensure that when you do take the shot you hit your target.

 

[RussB]

Ringer said,

Daughters and me can go through
300 or more in one range trip.

Back in the day it was SOP for me to buy two bricks...one for me, one for my son, and we'd blast away for several hours! Fun times

Yep, those were the days...you could walk into Walmart, KMart or and gun shop and buy all the 22LR you needed....

 

[ChaoSS]

Back in the day it was SOP for me to buy two bricks...one for me, one for my son, and we'd blast away for several hours! Fun times

Yep, those were the days...you could walk into Walmart, KMart or and gun shop and buy all the 22LR you needed....

And it only cost around 10 bucks a brick, too.



Everyone is getting so worked up about the people buying more than they shoot.... Guess what, who knows what you are going to shoot, and when? I bought some .22lr before I had a rifle for it, and that was in the middle of this panic. I was planning to buy one, and now when I go to the range, I don't have to worry about if I can get some ammo for it.

Ammo is out there, it's not hard to find, but it takes work. It means standing in line at WM are 7 in the morning, or waiting for backorders off the internet. It means paying attention to your emails to get on top of the alerts from various internet retailers, and getting on it right away. Yeah, it takes work, but it's out there. So stop complaining about it, and go buy some.

 

[Mike1234567]

Ok Mike, I will spell it out for you.
If on all the forums you belong you convince others to order 22lr and all of them follow your example and get 11,000 rounds. That is over two million rounds that are not available on the market. It does not matter if you pay $1 a round.
So the shortage continues longer cuz you and your friends pulling this ammo off the market the scalpers have longer to sell. As you continue to sell others on the idea and they in turn do the same it gets worse. Get the picture now?
And remember, you are the guy that does not have a gun that even shoots 22lr and in your mind you are not part of the problem.

I'm perfectly fine with your right to go stand in line morning after morning to buy what few rounds of .22LR WM or whatever big box store will let you buy. I'm okay with you going to your LGS and paying double the regular price, if you can find it. I'm just dandy with you buying from GB at triple the price... honestly, I don't care. I'm super-duper fine with me having enough on hand to last for months and waiting for six months for replacement ammo to arrive. I planned and invested. I'm sorry that you didn't.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

I still have 2 bricks of .22 that have a price tag of $7.49 on them. I bought them in the early 70's and I see them sold as "collectable ammo" for around 20 times I paid for them. I wasn't smart enough at the time, I should have bought all the .22 ammo I could have over the 40 years. If I had it the last year I would be a millionaire by now. Hindsight is great isn't it.

 

[RussB]

nevermind

 

[Trent]

Shooting is a perishable skill. One must practice on a regular basis to maintain that skill. When hunting you make sure you take the animal with one expertly placed shot. Now to make that kill with one shot takes practice and that means lots of ammo expended during practice sessions throughout the year to ensure that when you do take the shot you hit your target.

If you are shooting olympic level pistol or rifle yes, I would agree with you.

I see *tons* of hunters at the range for a day before deer season to check their sights. They all inevitably shoot 2 or 3 slugs, pack up, and go home. We don't see them at the range again until next fall. And they take deer, ethically.

Rifle skills *do not* perish nearly as fast as handgun. I've gone as long as 2 years without shooting rifle, came back to shoot, and was putting in Sharpshooter scores on High Power and High Master scores on F-Class my first outing. Easily sufficient to shoot prey at whatever distance, in either case. It took three whole range trips to get my High Power scores back up to Expert level, and after a total of 4 matches and 4 practices I was shooting master. *maintaining* that will take continual and regular practice, but even if I stop entirely, they will only degrade to a point - and that point is still well above what's necessary to ethically take game.

Handgun, on the other hand. Good grief. I took a few years off USPSA, came back, and found myself squarely and utterly at the bottom of the grid.

For hunting level accuracy I do *not* see the need to expend hundreds of rounds of ammunition in practice to maintain sufficient skills to take game.

Anyway, not trying to pick a fight, just saying that the marksmanship level to take game ethically does not have to come at the expense of high round count.

This being said, I'm all for stockpiling, hording, or buying ammo simply because you are a red blooded American and it's your damn right to do so.

Just saying people don't try to hide behind thinly veiled excuses like "I have to throw you under the bus to get this 15th brick of 22 ammo specifically for hunting, because if I don't my family might lose the ability to shoot squirrels by 2375 AD."

I'd much rather hear "I shoot 500 rounds a weekend out of my tacticool AR-15-22 clone rifle at zombie targets", or "I won't feel comfortable with myself until I have 15,000 rounds of every caliber I shoot", because that's the truth of our psychology.

As far as buying the entire supply to resell, that's low, and I view it as borderline immoral and unethical, but also well within people's rights. Heck, if a fixed-income retired dude wants to stake out WalMart to make an extra $100 a week selling ammo, who am I to stop him or tell him it's not right? It's not against the law to resell ammunition, you don't need any special licensing for it, and it does actually fit quite well with the "I am a self sufficient, creative, enterprising American" that we all do aspire to be someday.

Anyway like I said not trying to pick any fights, just wanting clarity and truth in the "big 22LR supply" debate.

 

[Queen_of_Thunder]

You want clarity on the 22lr issue then you need to ask the manufacturers where its at. We know its not to be found in Dicks, Academy or Walmart except on rare occasions. So where is it. Its not some poor guy buying his limit on those rare occasions when its available.

Its time to ask Federal,CCI, Remington and others just where is the ammo as its not reaching places like Walmart,Dicks,Academy or others. So where is it.

 

[Gun Master]

You want clarity on the 22lr issue then you need to ask the manufacturers where its at. We know its not to be found in Dicks, Academy or Walmart except on rare occasions. So where is it. Its not some poor guy buying his limit on those rare occasions when its available.

Its time to ask Federal,CCI, Remington and others just where is the ammo as its not reaching places like Walmart,Dicks,Academy or others. So where is it.

I second the motion, and plan to contact the afore mentioned manufacturers, and others not mentioned. Also, possibly retailers, especially regarding their rules limiting employees' buying or "holding" .22 ammo for themselves. If customers have a limit, employees should also, even more so.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Knowing people that work at 4 walmart locations, they do hold ammo for them selves. 98% of the 22 ammo in those stores is sold to employees. Seen it with my own eyes more then once. And they get away with it

98%, huh?

98% means that at least 49 out of every 50 boxes of ammo is being sold to employees.

Which, by extension, means that every time I go to a Walmart and see, say, 20 boxes of CCI ammo on the shelves that 980 boxes of CCI had to have been sold to Walmart employees, right?

And the same ratio would apply towards .22 WMR as well, not to mention any bulk packs I see here and there.

Man, that's a whole TRUNKLOAD of .22 every single time I see a paltry box or two of .22 sitting on the shelves!




Get real. While I'm sure some sales DO go towards some employees, I'm finding it extremely difficult envisioning a 98% factor. That just comes across like my wife who is fond of phrases like "Every time...", "Why is this always...", and "Nobody ever..."

 

[Gun Master]

.22 Ammo Shortage

98%, huh?

98% means that at least 49 out of every 50 boxes of ammo is being sold to employees.

Which, by extension, means that every time I go to a Walmart and see, say, 20 boxes of CCI ammo on the shelves that 980 boxes of CCI had to have been sold to Walmart employees, right?

And the same ratio would apply towards .22 WMR as well, not to mention any bulk packs I see here and there.

Man, that's a whole TRUNKLOAD of .22 every single time I see a paltry box or two of .22 sitting on the shelves!




Get real. While I'm sure some sales DO go towards some employees, I'm finding it extremely difficult envisioning a 98% factor. That just comes across like my wife who is fond of phrases like "Every time...", "Why is this always...", and "Nobody ever..."

Hi, Chief ! Here we are again. What do you think possible solutions might be, or any other thoughts along this line in general (or should I say "in Chief" - pun intended)? I really would appreciate your spin on this.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Hey Gun Master!

The solution is, quite simply, to wait it out. There is no other solution, and certainly no other "quick fix solution" out there.

Supply and demand will eventually come to terms in one of two fashions:

1. Demand will eventually taper down less than supply, allowing stocks to build back up to pre-panic levels.

2. Demand will continue to exceed supply, in which case a "new market normal" will have established itself, which will prompt ammunition manufacturers to invest in new production capabilities...which will eventually exceed demand enough allow stocks to build back up to pre-panic levels.

I suppose there is a third possibility, which is a combination of the two above.


The shortage is a pain...but with any shortage, there should be no surprise that a significant percentage of people respond in extremis, namely by buying whatever they can whenever they can, exacerbating the issue at least in the short term.

If people MUST buy, for whatever reason (whether we personally agree with their reasons or not), I do agree with Mike1234567: think ahead, do your research, shop around, get the best deal that you can by avoiding the so-called "scalpers". There's nothing wrong with paying what one might consider "over-inflated prices" if it's for a short-term need. But there is plenty of opportunity out there for decent, retail market prices if one is willing to invest a little bit of time for it.


When this is all done, I'm sure we'll see the flip side of the coin...people out there who will be buying scads of ammunition (.22 or otherwise) hedging against a future shortage. Human nature being what it is, I'm sure there will be plenty of people out there willing to blame those people for any future shortage by calling them "hoarders" and will probably decry them as "scalpers" should they so much as deign to sell any of their stock for a single red cent above what they paid for it.


So my opinion is buy what you want, when you want, however much you want, and at what price you're willing to pay for it. The market will eventually come full circle on this.

 

[Mike1234567]

You want clarity on the 22lr issue then you need to ask the manufacturers where its at. We know its not to be found in Dicks, Academy or Walmart except on rare occasions. So where is it. Its not some poor guy buying his limit on those rare occasions when its available.

Its time to ask Federal,CCI, Remington and others just where is the ammo as its not reaching places like Walmart,Dicks,Academy or others. So where is it.

I asked the clerk at my local WM this morning how long he'd been working the sporting goods department. He said two years. I asked him if he'd noticed a change in how much ammo his department receives. He said there hasn't been much change for nearly two years but when he first started they used to get tons more.

Of course, that's just one employee at one WM.

 

[jrdolall]

^^^^^
I think most of us have already accepted that, at least for the time being, 22 ammo will be higher than we prefer. Many people that didn't really shoot a lot of 22 got caught with their pants down when the panic began. I didn't exactly get caught that badly but I know I never expected it to get this bad and last anywhere near this long. I think 20k rounds of 22LR is about my normal consumption in any given year but I never kept 20k sitting around because I could always stop by the WM and pick up a couple of bricks.

Last December, when it knocked me in the head that 22 ammo was a problem, I loaded up from Grafs at around $19 per brick with no limit so I have been able to weather the storm with no problem. Since then I have been able to buy a brick here and there online.

The only thing we can be certain of is that it WILL sort itself out. 6 months or 2 years? That I can't say.

 

[Ignition Override]

Even 3,000 rds. of 7.62x39 appears excessive to many people. But I'm about to store another 1,000 because it is so easy to use 1,000 rds. in less than a year, loading only four rds. at a time in a standard SKS.

As for .22, although some of us only have bolt-actions, it is such a quiet round in these Romanian M-69 Trainers and the light weight guns are so pleasant to carry, like a baby Mauser.

 

[Potatohead]

Back in the day it was SOP for me to buy two bricks...one for me, one for my son, and we'd blast away for several hours! Fun times

Yep, those were the days...you could walk into Walmart, KMart or and gun shop and buy all the 22LR you needed....

Funny you say that. A friend of mine and myself headed out to his land to shoot a few months ago (mid panic). Ive never shot with him before, he doesnt shoot much. We're about halfway to Tennessee and he pulls us into a WM parking lot. "I need to grab some ammo" he says...I then proceed to tell him that it doesn't quite work that way any more. He didnt believe me..I say okey dokey..He comes back out grinning, "Damn you were right, not a bullet in the house".

He thought he could just stop and buy his ammunition on the way to our shoot. So he ended up having to shoot my 9mm and 223s. We had a ball though.