This is the moron that Democrats want to lead us?

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Typical DUer.

People here have asked you to defend articles you've posted and statements you've made and instead of doing that, you post yet another article that may or may not contain accurate information about a whole new subject.
 
Such as who was actually president during the timespan of the article about security in NY plants that you posted.

Others have already asked you about this, and you refuse to answer.
 
The article was published a couple of months ago. 3 years after Bush has taken office and the Republican leadership took over all three branches of government. The security problems that existed back then, STILL exist today. Correct?

Bush has had 3 years to fix these security problems. I think it's past time for Bush to take some responsibility for his own actions and quit trying to act like the problems of today are Clinton's fault three years ago.
 
Probably not, but since you presented this article as evidence of problems with Bush; it is your responsibility to back up your claim. This is kinda like a debate. That means YOU need to defend your position, not me.

Of course now you'll just start insulting me since you don't have any arguments.

BTW Go ahead call me a freeper, I consider it an honor to be called a free person.
 
Another security failure by the GOP leadership:

Former Centcom Commander (Zinni) - Americans have been "conned"
Iraq has old-school Marine regretting support for Bush :

By Thomas E. Ricks
The Washington Post


12/28/03: (Seattle Times) Anthony Zinni's opposition to U.S. policy on Iraq began on the monsoon-ridden afternoon of Nov. 3, 1970. He was lying on a Vietnamese mountainside west of Da Nang, three rounds from an AK-47 assault rifle in his side and back. He could feel his lifeblood seeping into the ground as he slipped in and out of consciousness.

He had plenty of time to think while recuperating. He promised himself that "if I'm ever in a position to say what I think is right, I will. ... I don't care what happens to my career."

That time has arrived.

Over the past year, the retired Marine Corps general has become a prominent opponent of Bush administration policy on Iraq, which he now fears is drifting toward disaster.

Zinni, 60, still talks like an old-school Marine — a big-shouldered, weight-lifting, working-class Philadelphian whose father emigrated from Italy. Yet he finds himself in the unaccustomed role of rallying the anti-war camp, attacking the policies of the president he had endorsed in the 2000 election.

"Iraq is in serious danger of coming apart because of lack of planning, underestimating the task and buying into a flawed strategy," he says. "The longer we stubbornly resist admitting the mistakes and not altering our approach, the harder it will be to pull this chestnut out of the fire."

Three years ago, Zinni completed a tour as chief of the Central Command, the U.S. military headquarters for the Middle East, during which he oversaw enforcement of the two "no-fly" zones in Iraq and conducted four days of punishing airstrikes against that country in 1998. He served briefly as a special envoy to the Middle East.

Zinni long has worried that there are worse outcomes possible in Iraq than having Saddam Hussein in power — such as eliminating him in such a way that Iraq will become a new haven for terrorism in the Middle East.

"I think a weakened, fragmented, chaotic Iraq, which could happen if this isn't done carefully, is more dangerous in the long run than a contained Saddam is now," he told reporters in 1998. "I don't think these questions have been thought through or answered."

It was a warning for which Iraq hawks such as Paul Wolfowitz, then an academic and now the No. 2 official at the Pentagon, attacked him in print at the time.

Five years later, Zinni fears it is an outcome toward which U.S.-occupied Iraq may be drifting. Nor does he think Saddam's capture is likely to matter much.

"Since we've failed thus far to capitalize" on opportunities in Iraq, he says, "I don't have confidence we will do it now. I believe the only way it will work now is for the Iraqis themselves to somehow take charge and turn things around. Our policy, strategy, tactics, et cetera, are still screwed up."

Anthony Zinni's passage from obedient general to outspoken opponent began in the unlikeliest of locations: the 2002 national convention of the Veterans of Foreign Wars. Zinni was to receive the group's Dwight D. Eisenhower Distinguished Service Award, recognition for his 35 years in the Marine Corps.

Vice President Dick Cheney was also there, delivering a speech on foreign policy. Sitting on stage behind Cheney, Zinni grew puzzled. He had endorsed Bush and Cheney two years earlier, just after retiring from his last military post, as chief of the U.S. Central Command, which oversees operations in Iraq. But he was alarmed at Cheney's words:

"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction," Cheney said. "There is no doubt that he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us."

Cheney's certitude bewildered Zinni. At Central Command, Zinni had been immersed in U.S. intelligence about Iraq. He was all too familiar with analysts' doubts about Iraq's programs to acquire weapons of mass destruction, or WMD. "In my time at Centcom, I watched the intelligence, and never — not once — did it say, '(Saddam) has WMD.' "

Though retired for nearly two years, Zinni says, he remained current on the intelligence through consulting with the CIA and the military. "I did consulting work for the agency, right up to the beginning of the war. I never saw anything. I'd say to analysts, 'Where's the threat?' " Their response was, "Silence."

His concern deepened as he listened to Cheney. Zinni's conclusion was that the Bush administration was determined to go to war. A moment later, he had another, equally chilling thought: "These guys don't understand what they are getting into."

Zinni is hardly a late-life convert to pacifism. "I'm not saying there aren't parts of the world that don't need their ??? kicked," says Zinni. "Afghanistan was the right thing to do," he adds, referring to the 2001 U.S. invasion to oust the Taliban regime and its al-Qaida allies.

But he saw no need to invade Iraq. "He was contained," he says of Saddam. " ... He had a deteriorated military. He wasn't a threat to the region."

Zinni's concern deepened at a February Senate hearing, six weeks before the war began, as he listened to Pentagon and State Department officials talk vaguely about the "uncertainties" of a postwar Iraq. "I was listening to the panel, and I realized, 'These guys don't have a clue.' "

That wasn't a casual judgment. Zinni had thought about how the United States might handle Iraq if Saddam's government collapsed after the four days of airstrikes he oversaw in December 1998.

"After the strike, we heard from countries with diplomatic missions in (Baghdad) that the regime was paralyzed, and that there was a kind of defiance in the streets," he recalls.

So early in 1999 he ordered that plans be devised for the possibility of the U.S. military having to occupy Iraq. The resulting document called for a nationwide civilian occupation authority, with offices in each of Iraq's 18 provinces. That plan contrasts sharply, he notes, with the reality of the Coalition Provisional Authority, the U.S. occupation power, which for months this year had almost no presence outside Baghdad — an absence some Army generals say has increased their burden in Iraq.

The more he listened to administration officials testify that day, the more Zinni became convinced that interventionist "neoconservative" ideologues were plunging the nation into a war in a part of the world they didn't understand. "These were dilettantes from Washington think tanks who never had an idea that worked on the ground."

Increasingly, he began to believe that U.S. soldiers would wind up paying for the mistakes of Washington policy-makers. And that took him back to that bloody day in the mountains in Vietnam.

He sees both conflicts as beginning with deception by the U.S. government. "I think the American people were conned into this," he says. Referring to the 1964 Gulf of Tonkin incident, in which the Johnson administration claimed that U.S. Navy ships had been subjected to an unprovoked attack by North Vietnam, he says, "The Gulf of Tonkin and the case for WMD and terrorism is synonymous in my mind."

And the goal of transforming the Middle East by imposing democracy by force reminds him of the "domino theory" in the 1960s that the United States had to win in Vietnam to prevent Southeast Asia from falling into communist hands.

That brings him back to Wolfowitz and his neoconservative allies as the root of the problem. "I don't know where the neocons came from — that wasn't the platform they ran on," he says. "Somehow, the neocons captured the president. They captured the vice president."

He is especially irked that, as he sees it, no senior officials have taken responsibility for their incorrect assessment of the threat posed by Iraq. "What I don't understand is that the bill of goods the neocons sold him has been proven false, yet heads haven't rolled," he says. "I think some fairly senior people at the Pentagon ought to go." Who? "That's up to the president."

Zinni says he hasn't received a single negative response from military people. "I was surprised by the number of uniformed guys, all ranks, who said, 'You're speaking for us. Keep on keeping on.' "

Copyright © 2003 The Seattle Times Company
http://www.informationclearinghouse...article5438.htm
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56800
 
Yet again you use the same tactic. You post one man's opinion listing stuff from the 70's on. I don't recall Bush being in office during the 70's or 80's or even 90's. And what does this article have to do with security at Reactors in NY or VT.

And you still haven't defended the first article you posted. And you're now way off topic anyway.

If you want to debate the first article then support it.
 
You post one man's opinion listing stuff from the 70's on.
C'mon, I KNOW you can read: You're on this messageboard. Did you just scan the article for numbers? Because that number refers to a story about General Zinni's background. His opinion starts after that.
 
I did read it. It is one man's opinion of the war in Iraq based on his experiences(unverified) during the 70's 80's and 90's. What does this have to do with security at a Nuclear Reactor in VT or NY.

Again just keep changing the subject and you never have to defend your position. This is the same stuff that I see over at DU all the time.

What evidence do you have to support the first article you posted that Bush has not improved security at the power plant in NY that you posted about.
 
The first point I made was that security at nuclear reactors are the job of the federal government. Bush is head of the federal government. 47% of all the nation's reactors failed this security test:

'The goal of the NRC’s Operational Safeguards Response Evaluation (OSRE) over the past few years has been to assess the ability of nuclear plant security to repel armed terrorists. But at 47% of the plants tested, mock intruders were able to reach vital targets inside the plant and simulate destruction of enough equipment TO CAUSE A REACTOR MELTDOWN with a potentially devastating release of radiation.'
http://www.ncwarn.org/media/past nc warn nr/nr-05-09-01securityfails.htm
 
Slightly OT, but if Wes Clark really means what he said this morning about not accepting any VP nomination, could Zinni do it?

Though I suspect he's a Republican as he endorsed Bush/Cheney in 2000, but as Clark shows political affiliation doesn't matter if you "hate Bush".*

*Not implying that Zinni "hates" Bush. Definately disagrees with Iraq though. Clark IS a "Bush hater".
 
I have read that General Zinni may be on Dean's short list for VP. Gen. Clark, Gen. Zinni, Sen. Graham, Sen. Edwards and Rep. Ron Paul are some names I've seen floated.
 
w4rma

Sorry that article doesn't hold water. The date at the top of the page is May 9, 2001. These audits take months if not years, therefore Bush couldn't have been in office long enough to have had an effect.

Try again.
 
Watching the Dems try to re-invent themselves as the party with a handle on foreign policy issues is pretty funny.

"Let's see if we can cut MORE military funding and further hamstring intelligence services."
 
…
Because I will have no higher priority than the security and safety of the American people.

That's why we must double our funding for keeping Americans safe at home, from police to firefighters, from port inspections to power plant security.

That's why our armed forces must remain the finest in the world, equipped and trained to fight 21st Century battles and defeat 21st Century threats.

We must improve leadership within the CIA, FBI, and other agencies to provide the level of communication and vigilance needed to prevent another September 11.

We must redouble our efforts through the Cooperative Threat Reduction program to prevent nuclear materials from Russia and other former Soviet Republics from falling into the wrong hands.

We must follow through on our commitments in Afghanistan to prevent that troubled land from ever again serving as a base for terrorism.

Around the world, we must show an unwavering dedication to the principles of democracy, tolerance, and human rights, including the rights of women to participate as full and equal citizens in every society, including those in the Middle East.

Above all, we must be clear that no terrorist will ever intimidate the United States of America into withdrawing from the world or abandoning our allies, friends, and ideals.
…
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_speech_foreign_drake
 
Dean is being put up because there's no way he can beat Bush in 2004, which will set up Hillary in 2008.
 
Deeds, not words...we all have seen what Dems do to the military. Or are you saying that Democrats have suddenly changed their colors? Does it burn you up that servicepeople vote overwhelmingly Republican?

The section you highlighted makes it plain to me:

At home...Dean plans to further infringe upon your liberties to make you "safer." Pretty popular idea amongst some these days. I abhor the Patriot Act...but I have a feeling, based on their own words, that the Dems would have enacted something far worse.

Bush goes after those who hate America where they live...I like that a lot.
 
Deeds, not words…
Ashcroft Recuses Self From CIA Leak Probe
By LARRY MARGASAK, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Attorney General John Ashcroft removed himself Tuesday from the investigation into whether the Bush administration leaked a CIA operative's name to a newspaper columnist, and a career federal prosecutor from Chicago was named as special counsel to take over.

In a move cheered by Democrats, Deputy Attorney General James Comey announced that Ashcroft had stepped aside to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest after reviewing evidence recently developed in the inquiry. He would not specify the nature of that evidence.
…
Investigators want to know who leaked the name of Valerie Plame, an undercover CIA officer, to syndicated columnist Robert Novak in July. Plame is married to former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson, who has said he believes his wife's identity was disclosed to discredit his assertions that the Bush administration exaggerated Iraq's nuclear capabilities to build a case for war.

The leaker could be charged with a felony if identified. The FBI has interviewed more than three dozen Bush administration officials, including political adviser Karl Rove and press secretary Scott McClellan.
…
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=542&e=1&u=/ap/20031230/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/cia_leak
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=291172

CIA seeks probe of White House

WASHINGTON, Sept. 26 — The CIA has asked the Justice Department to investigate allegations that the White House broke federal laws by revealing the identity of one of its undercover employees in retaliation against the woman’s husband, a former ambassador who publicly criticized President Bush’s since-discredited claim that Iraq had sought weapons-grade uranium from Africa, NBC News has learned.
…
http://www.msnbc.com/news/937524.asp?0cv=CB10
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=135657

Leak of Agent's Name Causes Exposure of CIA Front Firm

The leak of a CIA operative's name has also exposed the identity of a CIA front company, potentially expanding the damage caused by the original disclosure, Bush administration officials said yesterday.

The company's identity, Brewster-Jennings & Associates, became public because it appeared in Federal Election Commission records on a form filled out in 1999 by Valerie Plame, the case officer at the center of the controversy, when she contributed $1,000 to Al Gore's presidential primary campaign.

After the name of the company was broadcast yesterday, administration officials confirmed that it was a CIA front. They said the obscure and possibly defunct firm was listed as Plame's employer on her W-2 tax forms in 1999 when she was working undercover for the CIA. Plame's name was first published July 14 in a newspaper column by Robert D. Novak that quoted two senior administration officials. They were critical of her husband, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, for his handling of a CIA mission that undercut President Bush's claim that Iraq had sought uranium from the African nation of Niger for possible use in developing nuclear weapons.

The Justice Department began a formal criminal investigation of the leak Sept. 26.

The inadvertent disclosure of the name of a business affiliated with the CIA underscores the potential damage to the agency and its operatives caused by the leak of Plame's identity. Intelligence officials have said that once Plame's job as an undercover operative was revealed, other agency secrets could be unraveled and her sources might be compromised or endangered.

A former diplomat who spoke on condition of anonymity said yesterday that every foreign intelligence service would run Plame's name through its databases within hours of its publication to determine if she had visited their country and to reconstruct her activities.

"That's why the agency is so sensitive about just publishing her name," the former diplomat said.
…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40012-2003Oct3.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=147987

Democrats seek assessment of damage caused by outing of US intelligence agent

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Leading Democrats sent a letter to the US agency tasked with safeguarding America's intelligence capability, seeking an immediate assessment of the damage caused by the outing of a CIA agent's identity.

Top Democrats in the US Senate, including Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, asked the National Counterintelligence Executive headed by Michelle Van Cleave to undertake an immediate review of whether US intelligence has been compromised by the leak.

"The exposure of one of America's undercover intelligence officers by an official of the US government constitutes the most egregious form of betrayal," read the letter by Daschle, and fellow Senate Democrats Carl Levin, Joseph Biden, and John Rockefeller.

"Since this case involves the publication of classified information and the extent of the material disclosed is known, we believe that a damage assessment can and should be undertaken immediately," the lawmakers wrote.

"Swift action is needed to protect the individuals whose lives may be at risk," they said, requesting a copy of the findings within 30 days.
…
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...l_afp/us_cia_iraq_politics&cid=1521&ncid=1480
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=539395

Rice 'Knew Nothing' About CIA Agent Leak

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. national security adviser Condoleezza Rice said on Sunday she knew "nothing of any" White House effort to leak the identity of an undercover CIA officer in July, a charge now under review at the Justice Department.

On the "Fox News Sunday" program, the top aide to President Bush said, "This has been referred to the Justice Department. I think that is the appropriate place for it."

Rice said the White House would cooperate should the Justice Department, headed by Attorney General John Ashcroft, decide to proceed with a criminal investigation of the matter, which centers on the alleged public disclosure of the wife of former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson.

Wilson was sent by the CIA to Niger in 2002 to investigate a report that Iraq was trying to obtain uranium from Niger, but returned to say it was highly doubtful.
…
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm.../iraq_intelligence_probe_dc&cid=564&ncid=1480
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=136932

A White House smear

Did senior Bush officials blow the cover of a US intelligence officer working covertly in a field of vital importance to national security—and break the law—in order to strike at a Bush administration critic and intimidate others?

It sure looks that way, if conservative journalist Bob Novak can be trusted.
…
The sources for Novak’s assertion about Wilson’s wife appear to be “two senior administration officials.†If so, a pair of top Bush officials told a reporter the name of a CIA operative who apparently has worked under what’s known as “nonofficial cover†and who has had the dicey and difficult mission of tracking parties trying to buy or sell weapons of mass destruction or WMD material. If Wilson’s wife is such a person—and the CIA is unlikely to have many employees like her—her career has been destroyed by the Bush administration. (Assuming she did not tell friends and family about her real job, these Bush officials have also damaged her personal life.) Without acknowledging whether she is a deep-cover CIA employee, Wilson says, “Naming her this way would have compromised every operation, every relationship, every network with which she had been associated in her entire career. This is the stuff of Kim Philby and Aldrich Ames.†If she is not a CIA employee and Novak is reporting accurately, then the White House has wrongly branded a woman known to friends as an energy analyst for a private firm as a CIA officer. That would not likely do her much good.

This is not only a possible breach of national security; it is a potential violation of law. Under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982, it is a crime for anyone who has access to classified information to disclose intentionally information identifying a covert agent. The punishment for such an offense is a fine of up to $50,000 and/or up to ten years in prison. Journalists are protected from prosecution, unless they engage in a “pattern of activities†to name agents in order to impair US intelligence activities. So Novak need not worry.

Novak tells me that he was indeed tipped off by government officials about Wilson’s wife and had no reluctance about naming her. “I figured if they gave it to me,†he says. “They’d give it to others....I’m a reporter. Somebody gives me information and it’s accurate. I generally use it.†And Wilson says Novak told him that his sources were administration officials.
…
http://thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?bid=3&pid=823
http://www.arbiteronline.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/07/23/3f1f5fa79c206
http://www.democraticunderground.co...&forum=102&topic_id=18072&mesg_id=18072&page=
http://www.democraticunderground.co...ic&forum=108&topic_id=5913&mesg_id=5913&page=

…
Novak, in an interview, said his sources had come to him with the information. “I didn't dig it out, it was given to me,†he said. “They thought it was significant, they gave me the name and I used it.â€

Wilson and others said such a disclosure would be a violation of the law by the officials, not the columnist.

Novak reported that his “two senior administration officials†told him that it was Plame who suggested sending her husband, Wilson, to Niger.
…
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uscia0722,0,2346857.story?coll=ny-top-headlines
http://www.democraticunderground.co...ic&forum=103&topic_id=2326&mesg_id=2326&page=

A War on Wilson?
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,465270,00.html
http://www.democraticunderground.co...&forum=102&topic_id=18113&mesg_id=18113&page=

White House striking back?
http://www.msnbc.com/news/942095.asp?0cv=CA01

Schumer Urges FBI Probe Into Iraq Leaks
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030724/ap_on_go_ot/schumer_agent_1

Probes Expected in ID of CIA Officer
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationw...23,0,5461415.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-print

The Bush Administration Adopts a Worse-than-Nixonian Tactic: The Deadly Serious Crime Of Naming CIA Operatives by John W. Dean
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030815.html
 
Come on w4rma. You could at least stick with the topic, or the second or third without starting another one here. It's not even worth rebutting anything you state. Every time someone does, you just change topics again.

You still haven't supported your first suppositions.
 
You might be the king of the inconsequential copy/paste. What are you trying to say? There was an alleged leak that allegedly originated with the Bush administration?

Your support of Dean invariably reverts to "Bush sucks." That, if nothing else, demonstrates not only the lack of substance in your candidate, but also the political acuity of his supporters.

Do you not understand how your huge reliance on the words of the popular press undermines your argument? Hopefully it also allows you to refute for yourself the DUers continued claim that the popular media is controlled by Bush.

Zealots? What Bush zealots? We criticize Bush every day.

As far as I can tell, you have managed to make over 300 posts without mentioning firearms unless it has something to do with Dean politically.

That, to me, is a pretty good description of a zealot.
 
Thumper, you seem to need to resort to personal attacks when you're backed into a corner.

MikeB, I am basically responding to whatever the Dean and Democrat bashers are posting. You guys keep changing the topic and I have to keep correcting ya'll. Like, now, the topic seems to have switched from national security to personal attacks on myself. :rolleyes:
 
w4rma,

I haven't changed the topic once since I responded to your post about the nuclear plant in NY. You have changed the topic several times.

I'm still waiting for that evidence that Bush was responsible for security at that NY plant from 96 to 99.
 
Thumper, you seem to need to resort to personal attacks when you're backed into a corner.

What an amazingly transparent attempt to manipulate the moderators.

What corner? Further, what personal attack? That I said you might be the king of the inconsequential copy/paste? I attacked the substance of your "argument;" that being that you continue to quote unrelated published material to substantiate other raw published material you've posted.

You used the term zealot, which I don't believe is terribly offensive...even though you didn't substantiate your claim. I believe I made a pretty good case for characterizing you as a zealot, however.

If not, perhaps you'll point me to some of your firearms related posts that have nothing to do with Dean.

Otherwise, I'll continue to dismiss you as one of Dean's infamous intenet minions, replete with a hardrive full of shared Bush bashing material gleaned from democraticunderground.com (at least your honest enough to credit the site).
 
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