This made me go..........Hmmmm...

GeoDudeFlorida said:
I’m sorry to have to break this to you but this is the 20th of October. Exactly 5 weeks from today is November 24th, not mid November.
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What's 7 days between a manufacturer that wants to get units in users hands and a consumer?

But really, I'm prepared to not see it until December, though I'm hoping maybe it will be on the lower end of the time table.
 
DustyRusty said:
This week I was lamenting that the weather is limiting days at the outdoor range soon. Thats where I chronograph.
My chrono is big. Then this Garmin thingy comes out. My very local heated indoor range is 75 feet.
I ordered one today from Midway. They say back order till Nov 4th.
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That was my thought as well. Not only do I have to set my Chrony up outdoors, I have to drive to NV to do it. That Garmin would solve a lot of problems.
 
The only thing that gives me pause is that it has an internal rechargeable battery that's not replaceable according to the specs.
For $600.00 that's a no bueno!

I have been using Garmins for decades and I know the battery in them goes bad after about 5 years or sooner and then I have to keep it plugged in to my truck outlet to keep it on for more than 10 minutes.
I wonder it this will end up the same way. If it had replaceable batteries I would be interested after the price comes down and I don't see where it can be plugged into an external battery.
 
Batteries! A person skilled with a soldering pencil usually can replace, unreplaceable batteries. Finding the proper replacement battery also takes some work.
If they are lithium-ion batteries, I'm less confident. By the time we get there maybe the company will offer the service or THR will have the answer.

The only nagging concern I have is how far away the next shooter at the indoor range has to be to not register on my unit.
And that 75 feet on an indoor range is REALLY enough.

Time will tell.
 
tightgroup tiger said:
The only thing that gives me pause is that it has an internal rechargeable battery that's not replaceable according to the specs.
For $600.00 that's a no bueno!

I have been using Garmins for decades and I know the battery in them goes bad after about 5 years or sooner and then I have to keep it plugged in to my truck outlet to keep it on for more than 10 minutes.
I wonder it this will end up the same way. If it had replaceable batteries I would be interested after the price comes down and I don't see where it can be plugged into an external battery.
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That’s a good thing to know about the Garmin batteries….
 
My reasons to postpone purchasing….

1. As a rule, I avoid 1st generation electronics. Better to wait for bug fixes and performance improvements.
2. A non-replaceable battery in a $600 device is concerning.
3. User reviews are sparse.
4. I already have a chrono.
 
Blue68f100 said:
You could come east to my place if you want. I'm about 2hrs from you. My range extends out to 300 yrds.
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I have a lot of friends here in TX with 'property to shoot on!' But when it comes down to it, no one actually produces. :(

Last good outdoor range I shot on was out in Leonard... it went to 500yds... but it closed down as well. You are very kind... I may very well take you up on that offer!
 
tightgroup tiger said:
I don't see where it can be plugged into an external battery.
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It charges via USB-C mini plug. Whether any kind of external battery would power it is mystery but it has one of the most common connections on modern electronics.

Otto said:
2. A non-replaceable battery in a $600 device is concerning.
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Not that concerning to me considering every cell phone has the same set up and most cost well over $600, are run constantly and become outdated in 4-5 years when manufacturers stop providing software updates for them.
 
For a non-chronograph person like me considering one it sure is tempting. Plug play for sure. I have a Garmin GPS. Garmin makes top notch stuff. Not cheap.
 
Charlie98 said:
I have a lot of friends here in TX with 'property to shoot on!' But when it comes down to it, no one actually produces. :(

Last good outdoor range I shot on was out in Leonard... it went to 500yds... but it closed down as well. You are very kind... I may very well take you up on that offer!
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Just PM me where your ready to come east. I'm retired so most of the time I'm here. If not fishing......
 
I think I'll drop an email to Garmin about what they project for battery life in these units. And if you can supply out power to it through the charging port. I'm curious as to what they say. I'm going to ask what happens when this battery fails to hold a charge. Is it just a $600.00 disposable item.
I haven't seen a warranty for it yet, anyone else?

Well I tried to email them and they want a serial number to ask a question on their support site, and a chat specialist is not available.

It's not listed on their normal website with their GPSs. Must be to soon. They say that they are not available for another 5-8 weeks. Must be too soon for all this. I'm still interested because it looks great, it would be perfect for me, but I want to know what they say about the battery life before I even think about buying one.
 
What this unit has in spades is portability and ease of set up.

Truth be told I was surprised to see that $600 price tag. My personal opinion is there’s some gouging going on. Wonder what the profit margin is on that.

If I didn’t have a Shooting Chrony (and a brand new one still in the box that I bought when I found out the company went under…just to have a back up) I would probably drop the 6 Benjamin’s (reluctantly) and purchase it.

However, the Shooting Chronys are reliable, pretty compact, run on 9 volt batteries and take about 3-5 minutes to set up.

For what they are they meet my needs. I’ll sit this one out.
 
Frulk said:
What this unit has in spades is portability and ease of set up.

Truth be told I was surprised to see that $600 price tag. My personal opinion is there’s some gouging going on. Wonder what the profit margin is on that.

If I didn’t have a Shooting Chrony (and a brand new one still in the box that I bought when I found out the company went under…just to have a back up) I would probably drop the 6 Benjamin’s (reluctantly) and purchase it.

However, the Shooting Chronys are reliable, pretty compact, run on 9 volt batteries and take about 3-5 minutes to set up.

For what they are they meet my needs. I’ll sit this one out.
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I've got a shooting chrony myself, and it still works after being hit a few times. But she's a bit beat up. I was gonna pony up for an Ohler, but this little gadget has my interest piqued as well. $600....that's alot of technology in something about the size of a deck of Marlboros, hence the price. Still less than a mobile phone.
Now if Santa can only keep himself from buying another rifle or revolver..............
 
In terms of Garmin battery life I can only comment that I have used satellite dog tracking devices by Garmin for some 14 plus years. I have changed systems due to regulatory changes but I have NEVER had a battery failure. Additionally , I've found their customer service to be stellar and have had them service a used hand held device free of charge even tho I was not the original purchaser. Personally, based on company experience, I intend to purchase one of these to replace my ancient #33 at my first opportunity.
 
I found the Garmin website info for this product rather poor, and the product's cost / benefit ratio not great.

I was looking to see if it measures bullet speed only ONCE for each bullet, or whether, like the Labradar, if it measures the speed at multiple, and selectable, distances.

Since there is no mention of this capability on the Garmin site, I ahve to assume it measures the speed only ONCE for each bullet. That makes it FAR less capable than the Labradar for my purposes, for not much less cost.

Knowing the downrange velocity of each bullet at multiple distance gives very valuable information, that is also REQUIRED for some purposes. Fo example:
- Calculating actual ballistic coefficient
- Determining when the bullet is incurring transonic effects
- seeing how standard deviation and extreme spread are varying at different distances from the muzzle

Things like the above are REALLY important for long distance shooting.

So, no, this product is NOT competition for Labradar for any shooter who needs more than just muzzle velocities.

Jim G
 
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JimGnitecki said:
Things like the above are REALLY important for long distance shooting.

So, no, this product is NOT competition for Labradar for any shooter who needs more than just muzzle velocities.

Jim G
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What do you consider long distance shooting…??…..most of your postings are about 45-70, which I don’t consider to be long distance, but who am I to say…
I can only speak for myself, my main use is to find subsonic velocities…
Everyone has their own unique, specific needs/wants…
As many have said before, do what works for you…… :thumbup:
 
This unit will be more convenient than the Labradar, and it reportedly will read a wider range of velocities. The Labradar has the advantage of recording velocities at several distances downrange, which is very helpful if you want to calculate ballistic coefficients, but it is bulky and can be a bit finnicky. They are certainly direct competitors even with slightly different capabilities. I (back) ordered a Garmin and look forward to running a side-by-side comparison with the Labradar.

I'm not overly distressed by the "non-replaceable" lithium-ion battery. Non-replaceable simply means that there isn't an easy opening battery compartment to swap batteries like you do in a flashlight. But if you don't mind taking the device apart, you'll no doubt be able to replace the battery. There are battery kits available to replace the "non-replaceable" batteries in Garmin auto GPS units; I've done it a couple times to keep older units running. And those same units will run when plugged into a USB port in the car. I've no doubt that an external battery pack will work the same way.
 
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As far as I'm concern about the battery, I'm not worried. I have replaced Iphone so-called non replaceable batteries with direct battery replacement with full instruction to remove and install the new battery. The site I used was ifixit.com, just for curiosity I went to their site to check it out and found they have all garmin GPS batteries and instructions to replace them. I have no doubt in 4-5 years if the chrono battery dies there will be some after market company selling a replacement and a how to manual.
 
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Soonerpesek said:
What do you consider long distance shooting…??…..most of your postings are about 45-70, which I don’t consider to be long distance, but who am I to say…
. . .
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The .45-70 Pedersoli Sharps replica is the focus of my CURRENT postings, only because (a) it is new to me (b) I am new to bullet casting AND to handloading for cast bullets, and (c) I am having some difficulty finding the right handload. But, it is NOT my long range rifle. My long range rifle is capable of 1000 yards. I will though be trying to get the Pedersoli out to 600 meters (the limit of the local club's shooting range).

Like you said, every shooter's needs and wants are not the same. But anyone comparing the Garmin to the Labradar and somehow concluding that it is a competitive replacement for the Labradar has either not read the Garmin's user manual, or does not understand that having only the muzzle velocities available to you is nowhere near the same, nor enough, for really serious shooters.

When comparing products, two or more may often "sound" similar when viewed superifically, but can turn out to be profoundly different once you understand how and why they work the way they do. My own personally applicable example right now is an electronic target system versus a target camera.

Both are superficially addressing the same problem: When you are shooting several hundred yards, you cannot see the bullet holes in a target, even with a relatively expensive spotting scope. I have that problem right now. I am looking at both the Shotmarker electronic target system and the SME Bullseye Wireless Target Long Range Sniper Camera.

Both, on the surface, let you "see" the bullet holes even at 1000 yards. However, because their design objectives were very different, they are NOT directly comparable or competitive.

The Shotmarker system uses a 4' x 4' or larger DIY "frame" into which you insert a sheet of Coroplast or similar inexpensive material whose sole function is to enable you to mount an "aimpoint" which can be ANYTHING soft that you can suitably "see" and that will be consumed over time as you shoot bullets through it. 4 sensors detect the position AND velocity of the bullets as they pass through, or near, that aimpoint, and report that position to you via your mobile phone or tablet at the firing station. There is no residual paper target that needs to be replaced after each group you fire. And the software also gives you for each shot the velocity, impact angle, group size, SD, ES, etc, etc. and an electronic "representation" of the target. The Shotmarker is THE solution for many F-Class shooting organizations and their matches because it's way better and faster than using paper targets.

BUT, the system has an important limitation: It can only detect bullets whose velocity is supersonic. That means it will work great with my modern long range rifle, but will be unusable with my Pedersoli Sharps replica if I am shooting beyond 225 yards or so, because the Pedersoli's bullet will be subsonic beyond about 225 yards. It would also be unusuable for .22 rimfire at ANY range.

The SME Bullseye Wireless Target Long Range Sniper Camera, on the other hand, can only capture the current paper target image and transmit that image back to the phone or tablet at the firing line for you to see. It can transmit its signal up to a mile or more. BUT, That's ALL it can do. So, you can put up an array that contains multiple paper targets to fire multiple groups, but the targets can't be individually very large, because if they are, you won't be able to see the bullet holes in them because you'll need to place the camera too far away from them to capture the entire array. So, if your range session is going to require a lot of shots, you still have to walk or drive out to change targets during it.

BUT, the velocity of the bullet is no longer important. It can be ANY velocity. So, this is a great solution for shooters trying to shoot metal gongs or paper targets at long ranges, when the type of shooting, or the number of shots on a given target, make target changes unnecessary.

The prices of the two systems are almost the same. But comparing these 2 systems as viable "direct competitors" would obviously be a mistake, just as comparing the Labradar and the Garmin as direct competitors is a mistake.

Jim G
 
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