Thompson, Garand, etc., parts from Bulgaria?

[AlexanderA]

There's a seller on ebay right now, located in Sofia, Bulgaria, that's taking bids on Thompson, Garand, and other WWII U.S. military weapon parts -- some new parts in the wrap, and some taken from disassembled weapons. (No receivers.) What would be the legality of bidding on, winning, and then reimporting these parts into the U.S., as an individual without State Department permits, etc.? (It's unclear what the origin of these weapons was, whether they were Lend-Leased to Russia, Yugoslavia, or what. Would this make a difference?)

 

[medalguy]

I've bought several parts from European countries and never had a problem with them being mailed to me. Usually they are marked "mechanical parts" on the customs label and passed free. It would be difficult to determine what a single part or two was from unless it were very obvious. Of course, no receivers!! I did receive a couple of barrels last year, again passed free.

 

[femoralis]

Some stuff you can't bring in (obviously recievers and barrels of "evil" guns).

If you bring in over a certain dollar amount (~$100 I think) of other gun parts, you are supposed to fill out and submit a form to the BATFE. I think it's form 6:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/how-to/import-firearms-ammo-implements-of-war.html

 

[ratscoot]

The Russians have cleared their WO2 stocks once again.
You can buy brand new WW2 Thompson SMG's for 650€ in Europe.
I've bought 10 30 round Thompson mags for 200€.
PPS 43 SMG's are going for 200€ and Maxim machine guns on the wheel carriage are less than a 1000.
The are all as good as new full auto guns.

 

[Tommygunn]

Ratscoot, you dirty rat, you're making me drool all over my keyboard!!!!:banghead:

 

[ratscoot]

They've got Thompson M1928A1 an M1 versions.
A PPSH 41 with drum is also only 200€ and a VZ61 Scorpion is 350€.
There is also a lot of ex-Yugoslavian hardware on the market here.
A MG42/53 (Yugo copy of the MG 42) in good condition goes for around 350€.
The market for these weapons is very smal though because in most country's full auto weapons are banned or you need a special collectors license, kind like class 3 in the US.
Most are being deactivated and sold as display pieces.

 

[AlexanderA]

You can buy brand new WW2 Thompson SMG's for 650€ in Europe.
I've bought 10 30 round Thompson mags for 200€.
PPS 43 SMG's are going for 200€ and Maxim machine guns on the wheel carriage are less than a 1000.
They are all as good as new full auto guns.

Where in Europe is this legally allowed? Are we talking about illegal sales, are we talking about guns that have been rendered inoperable, or are we talking about transactions somewhere in Eastern Europe, outside the EU? I find it hard to believe that you could buy a live Thompson in Belgium without special permits and licenses. (And remember, if you can buy a Thompson in Belgium, you can take it into most other EU countries with no inspection at the borders.)

 

[AlexanderA]

The market for these weapons is very small though because in most country's full auto weapons are banned or you need a special collectors license, kind like class 3 in the US.
Most are being deactivated and sold as display pieces.

I see. That's more or less what I thought.

Reading the current UK deactivation standards (a sort of "reverse proof" at an official proofing house is required) is enough to make a gun person cringe. This is not like the U.S., where torch-cutting the receiver in three places is enough to make it a "non-gun." UK deactivation, although preserving the external appearance of the gun, basically destroys every single working part. It makes it totally beyond salvage. You'd do better getting a solid resin-cast model.

In general, European gun laws are so strict that they're widely ignored -- and the rate of compliance is the lowest where the laws are the strictest (such as in the UK). Criminals anywhere in Europe seem to have no problem getting guns. In Greece, where rifled long guns of any sort (to say nothing of machine guns) are strictly illegal, drive-by shootings with AK-47s take place in Athens on a daily basis.

What we have in Europe is gun prohibition analogous to the alcohol prohibition that we had in the U.S. in the 1920's and 30's. When will politicians realize that such attempts at high-minded, but naive, social engineering never work?

 

[ratscoot]

I''m talking about the legal gun trade of surplus guns.
Criminals arn't interested in WW 2 guns, they got AK 47's from Albania and former Yugoslavia.
According to the police these AK's go for around 300€ on the black market.
The heavy griminals also have Semtex and RPG's. A lot of weapons from the Balkan wars got in criminal hands afterwarths.

 

[ratscoot]

The rules for de-activation vary great between EU country's. In Germany only a bold and a barrel is a licensed part. A receiver is free sale. (you can buy AR lower's without a license or registration there, even without serial number). When de-activating in Germany normally there are holes drilled in the barrel under the handguard and the breachface of a bold is cut off and a new piece of metal is welded in place, the receiver and other parts are left untouched and you can cock the weapon for dislay purpose.

 

[Jim Watson]

A friend related a case in which a serviceman stationed in Europe took advantage of that system. He bought unregulated receivers in Germany and unregulated barrels in the US and assembled firearms without benefit of a manufacturer's license. He did very well at it for a while. But after some of his packages of gun parts were noticed by customs and postal inspectors, he was prosecuted.

 

[femoralis]

ratscoot, can you legally buy live MGs in belgium?

 

[ratscoot]

Yes, if you have a collectors license.