Thought experiment, what is *MY* best choice for HD rifle?

[MacTech]

Just kicking some ideas around here, wondering which one of my rifles would be the best choice for HD?

First off, let me set the stage here....

Home is a 230 year old Georgian Colonial style house in Maine, 50 acres of land, closest neighbors are 500 yards away line-of-sight, but for the most part, we're reasonably rurally located, wall construction is old Colonial wooden walls, no sheetrock prefab stuff, I'm not sure the *exact* wall composition, but they are sturdy and have stood for 200+ years

Using compass points, the closest neighbors are to the North and East of us, to the South lies the salt marsh, closest dwelling is about 2 miles away, on the other side of the marsh, and to the West, the closest neighbor is at the top of the hill, about 1/8 mile, our house is about halfway up the hill

that's the overall land/neighbor layout

Now, onto the thought experiment....

First off, let me just say that the options listed in my OP here are the *ONLY* options, *DO NOT* suggest "Sell rifle "X" and get rifle "Y", it's better", I am to work with what I have and nothing more, I'm open to different ammo or handload suggestions, but not changing the rifles, I like what I have, and with the economy the way it is, it's not financially wise (or feasable at the moment) to go swapping rifles around on a whim, I'm going to make what I have work for me

Secondly, I already have both a defensive handgun and shotgun, and to be perfectly honest, in a HD situation, I would likely reach for the shotgun first anyway, but that's not the purpose of the thought experiment

Okay, here are the contenders

Yugo SKS, with all original add-ons** (bayo, grenade launcher, night sights)
Ammo for the Yugo consists of;
Wolf Military Classic 124 Gn FMJ
WMC 124 Gn JHP
Winchester 123 Gn SP
Winchester 123 Gn FMJ
Yes, I know FMJ is not a good defensive round due to overpenetration, but I do have it in my ammo stockpile, so it gets listed

Marlin 336 lever in .30-30, basic non-crossblock safety 1970's vintage rifle
Ammo for the 336 consists of the following;
Winchester 170 Gn Power Point
Remington 150 Gn Core-Lokt
I do plan on reloading for the 336, and I also want to try the Hornady Leverevolution 160 grainers

the 336 is my newest addition, and I haven't had the opportunity to shoot it yet, this weekend if the weather's nice, I'll be determining what loads it likes best

So, which would be the best rifle for HD purposes between these two? and by best I mean "most effective at stopping the threat", I already know the 336 would be more "Jury-freindly" than the SKS, the bayonet (even folded away) and grenade launcher hardware make it look decidedly unfreindly to non-gun-types, wheras the 336 is "just an old cowboy's gun"




** I have been considering doing the 922r compliance thing to get rid of the launcher, as it's a useless bit of hardware (a bit overbuilt for a muzzle protector) and perhaps remove the bayo, mainly to lighten it up a bit and improve the balance, but then again, it's always useful to have a rifle with a big poky end on it.....

 

[45bthompson]

I'd prolly go with the marlin. Just because its shorter. I have both rifles and if I was inside clearing rooms the sks would be awkward. Plus it might be easier for an intruder to grab it. That said you could prolly get a cheap folder stock for it to shorten it down.

 

[Bobson]

I have to agree, and for the same reason. As soon as I read the words "Yugo SKS," I was looking to see what the next option was. Not because I dislike the rifle. It just seems too long for this purpose.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Since this seems strictly a hardware question, with no reference to strategies, tactics or training, I'm moving it to Rifle Country...

 

[Sheepdog1968]

Per OP weapons, are they both equally reliable? IMO reliability that it goes bang every time (weapon + ammo combo) would be my biggest consideration on which I'd choose.

 

[HDCamel]

My cousin, an Army corporal, has told me stories of our guys in Iraq clearing houses with bayonets fixed (in case of a jam). It's apparently saved a couple of lives (though I pretty much have to take him at his word). Also adds to intimidation factor. Plus, if the intruder tries to grab the gun, just stab him.
If the SHTF, the SKS is easier to reload in a firefight (stripper clip vs individual rounds) and is semi-auto.
In HD situations, you probably shouldn't clear rooms unless you're securing your family. It's better to hunker down.

I'd go with the SKS.

 

[eazyrider]

I was a Marine from 02-06. The last bayonet that I saw was in boot camp. But the Army may be different. Hell they always did have better equipment. But if I would have had the option I would have put one on.

 

[HDCamel]

I was a Marine from 02-06. The last bayonet that I saw was in boot camp. But the Army may be different. Hell they always did have better equipment. But if I would have had the option I would have put one on.

Like I said, I'm just taking him at his word. I have no way of corroborating, but it seemed feasible. If I were in that situation, having a spear in case my gun fails seems like a good idea.

 

[45bthompson]

I was a paratrooper in the 82 abn. I just got back from my second year long tour in Afghanistan less than a year ago. I also only ever fixed a bayonet in basic training and have not heard of anybody using a bayonet in combat since Vietnam era. Also an interisting note.... corporal is a rare rank for the Army as it is still E-4 pay grade with added responsibility. Most go from E-4 SPC to E-5 SGT. I think the Marines use corporal as a regular rank though.

 

[45bthompson]

On another note. I would never hunker down in my own house. Nobody knows the layout better than me (especially in the dark). If there was ever an intruder unfortunate enough to chose my home for his profit he would soon realize he broke into burglar hunting ground.

 

[jmr40]

With what you have I'd go SKS and softpoint ammo.

I'd be looking for a short barreled shotgun or AR to replace either though.

 

[ROCK6]

Also an interisting note.... corporal is a rare rank for the Army as it is still E-4 pay grade with added responsibility. Most go from E-4 SPC to E-5 SGT.

Not too rare...I've done several lateral promotions to Corporal; most were E4-promotable Soldiers who were team chiefs. Most commanders just don't make the effort or the promotions are so fast there's little need to do a lateral promotion...I actually like the Corporal rank as it's an easy way to recognize young leaders and since most already have the responsibility of an NCO you might as well give them the recognition since you can't get him the pay raise.

For the OP, since you do have a shotgun and sidearm for actual in-house HD, I would opt for the SKS. It's combat-accurate and will be effective within the distances around your immediate area (it won't be a 300+ yard rifle, but more than enough for realistic combat ranges). It's also much faster to reload than the lever gun. The lever gun will make a good patrol rifle as it's more svelte, lighter and handier...I think you have a decent enough armory for 90% of realistic scenarios.

ROCK6

 

[valnar]

If by HD you mean inside the home, your aforementioned shotgun and handgun would be best. If you mean <120 yards outside of your home as the zombies approach, I'd choose the Marlin if you're accurate with it; the SKS if you are not.

Considering where you live though, unless you have kids around, I'd keep both loaded at all times anyway.

 

[marine 97-03]

+1 336

 

[Loosedhorse]

Uh, I can't seem to find the .308 option...

Is this a trick question?

 

[briansmithwins]

I also only ever fixed a bayonet in basic training and have not heard of anybody using a bayonet in combat since Vietnam era. Also an interisting note

Those wacky Brits, OTOH...

The fearless Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders stormed rebel positions after being ambushed and pinned down.

Despite being outnumbered five to one, they suffered only three minor wounds in the hand-to-hand fighting near the city of Amara.

The battle erupted after Land Rovers carrying 20 Argylls came under attack on a highway.

After radioing for back-up, they fixed bayonets and charged at 100 rebels using tactics learned in drills.

Lieutenant James Adamson was awarded the Military Cross after killing two insurgents during close quarter combat in Helmand's notorious "Green Zone".

The 24-year-old officer, a member of the 5th battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland, revealed that he shouted "have some of this" before shooting dead a gunman who had just emerged from a maize field.

Seconds later and out of ammunition, the lieutenant leapt over a river bank and killed a second insurgent machine-gunner with a single thrust of his bayonet in the man's chest

BSW

 

[Tirod]

Right, quote the only bayonet anecdote in recent history to back up a questionable story two other prior servicemen report was uncommon in their tour in the same country.

Here's the point about which to use: Which will be immediately available when you are outside? Likely the pistol. If the weapon is not ready to your hand, then you need to fight your way to it. At that point whichever is closest will be the first you grab on holstering the pistol.

Reality hints that one will be near the front door, the other at the back door. At that point, if you just entered the house, either gun loaded with something is better than the pistol.

If you are in the house, which gun will be near at hand? Again, likely the pistol. Which long rifle -or shotgun- you can fight your way to will again be dictated by where you keep it and how close.

There are much bigger and more important considerations that which gun, ammo, or wall construction. Training, tactics, and bluntly, how the outer perimeter was defeated are typically ignored in this scenario. Everyone agonizes over what grain bullet and which length firearm will have an advantage. Frankly, it would take a highly trained Delta commando to exercise the incremental difference.

That's why these discussions are mostly internet fantasy. It's not the hardware, it's the software, and I have to question why it led to dealing with intruders in a reactionary way rather than proactively repelling their curiousity or intent. That's much more important that which gun.

The reality based answer is whichever you can get your hands on.

 

[Cosmoline]

Assuming you shoot the Marlin and practice with it, I'd go with that. The ammo is going to be much better for the purpose. Even SP x39 doesn't have the track record that .30-30 hunting ammo has. Pretty much anything you pick up for the .30-30 will work extremely well on medium size thin-skin animals.

 

[scramasax]

Put a XS scout set up on the Marlin, add a Dr red dot and a small lightrail. This may sound MN to some but it is a very practical set up. I have this on two 94s and one 336.
Proven set up on my 39acr farm, night vermin.

Cheers,

ts

 

[gotigers]

Marlin. I like lever actions. Reliable, usually feeds all ammo, light, short, etc.

 

[Germster]

While it depends with the state you live in, home defense shootings are dangerous for you and the perp. I've taken that CW course and learned some interesting things.

One, is when you use deadly force in HD, as in shooting any gun, use it to kill. If you shoot a round into the ceiling you will still be charged with using deadly force even if you were only trying to scare the guy. You are still screwed. Might as well kill the SOB. Don't shoot to wound. If you have decided that you are justified in shooting someone, then shoot someone. The jury however, may not agree.

I'd suggest the lever action rifle for two reasons. One is when you jack that round into the chamber the perp might hear the sound and split. If you keep the SKS loaded with an empty chamber and you slam the bolt closed, it may or may not, chamber a round. The lever gun IMO is less likely to jam than that old SKS. Also the round you'll shoot from your 30-30 will be deadlier that the jacketed SKS round.

Of course your shotgun is best of all since it won't shoot a long ways, and even if you are mad, you do not want to shoot the guy as he is running off. Let him go. If you live in a state like Texas you may get away with shooting the guy if he has done someone in your family physical harm, even if he is running away, but in many states if the perp is hit in the back you are screwed. You want to protect yourself or your family, but you do not want to ruin your life and everything that you have worked for. That's what the liberal attorney who represents the family of the perp will try to do to you.

After you have jacked that round into your shotgun and the perp keeps coming...well....I would consider shooting. Just remember he might be a drunken kid, your daughter's boyfriend, your cousin who does not feel threatened in your home, no matter how much noise your rifle makes. You will have about half a second to make your decision to shoot or not.

I am an old soldier and I've been trained to shoot people. It is not easy for an untrained, unconditioned person to do. Think seriously about it before it happens. However, I know people who either shot or presented the gun in a threatening manner and changed the entire situation to their side. So using deadly force is something to consider.

 

[Hizzie]

7.62x39 and 30-30 are pretty much ballistic equals. Good ammo is available for both. Both can be equiped with a white light for target verification and/or optic for increased speed/accuracy. Either would need a buttstock pouch or sleeve for holding additional ammo close due to limited capacity. Either would serve you equally well. So it will boil down to how well YOU handle, shoot and reload each rifle. Take both to the range with a buddy and a shot timer.

 

[mortablunt]

Bad news, friend. The folks here are really anti rifle for HD, SD, and carry. I support the SKS because it's semiautomatic, so you get rapid followup shots and I prefer the sights on the SKS, which means that in a real home invasion, you can aim more quickly and get the first finishing shot off. The reloading improvement is a plus and you can get aftermarket detachable magazines. Also, the bayonet means that in case of a gun grab, you can stab the sucker.

 

[22lr]

Id vote for the 336. I see less going wrong with it in the long run.

 

[BrocLuno]

I'd be thinking about the aftermath? If you use the Marlin, you can say it was by the back door because I had some problems with (dogs, raccoons, foxes, coyotes, etc raiding the chicken coup) and I grab'd it when I heard the noise. It's a farm gun, so the jury or sheriff will be inclined to think you were reacting to a situation. If you use the SKS, they will think you were planning for this and judge you differently

I also would not have posted this thread with any ID that's traceable to you. Premeditation can be established a lot of ways