Another thought excersise, what does .30-30 have over .44 Mag in a levergun?

[MacTech]

I'm musing yet another thought experiment.....

Despite my best efforts, my caliber collection is growing, in the past few months, I've added .22WMR (Ruger Single Six), .38 Spl. (S&W Mod 64), .30-30 (Marlin 336) and .44 Mag (Ruger Super Redhawk 7.5") to the collection

Now I have to stock;
.22 (S, L, LR)
.22 WMR
.38 Spl
.44 Mag
.45 Colt
.45 ACP
.30-30
20 Gauge
12 Gauge

I reload for my .4x caliber handguns, as they all share Large Pistol primers which I have a decent supply of, they can use similar propellants (W231, Unique and Trail Boss), and I can share the .45 caliber bullets between the Colt and ACP brass

I plan to reload for .38 Spl, as it's such an inexpensive and pleasant plinking round, and I reload 12 and 20 gauge as well

As far as a "hunting rifle" goes, here in southern seacoastal Maine, I don't currently go hunting, although I want to learn, in the woods and fields, the longest shot Id feel comfortable taking would be no more than 100-150 yards, that's well within the range of a hot-loaded .44 Mag from a .44 Mag levergun, as well as a .30-30

I like to keep my ammo and component stash as simple as possible, as few variables as possible, to be perfectly honest, I don't plan on needing to stock much .22WMR or .38 Spl, as those are just "fun" cartridges, if I run out, no big deal, I'll just buy some more when they go on sale or I find a deal in the "Pre-owned" ammo bin at the gun shop (traded-in ammo that's unfired, still in the original box, but can't be sold as "new")

I can share primers powder and, in the case of the .45's, bullets between .the three .4X calibers, so there's some consolidation and overlap there, so basically, the only real "outlier" in the stash, per se, is the .30-30, I can't share bullets, primers, or powder with anything in my collection, and it's another category of commercial ammo to keep stocked

If I was to, lets say, trade the 336 towards a Marlin 1894 in .44 Mag, I'd have one less caliber to stock, could share ammo with my Ruger Super Redhawk, and not have to stock .30-30 specific components (rifle primers, bullets, powder), and I'd be able to spend more money on shoring up my component and loaded ammo supply for .44 Mag

sharing components and ammo with multiple firearms makes sense to me

so, aside from the higher muzzle velocity and slightly more aerodynamic projectile, what does a .30-30 levergun offer that a .44 Mag lever doesnt?

I'll be shooting the same distances (150 yards or less) at the same size animals (whitetail deer and coyotes / coy-dogs), both soft targets, and I'd imagine a good heavy hollowpoint .44 Mag bullet would do a better job of dumping it's energy into a coy-dog sized target than a .30-30 which may overpenetrate?

plus, the .44 Mag lever has a capacity advantage as well....

Just thinking out loud here, I'm in no rush, after all, the .44 Mag Marlin** would have to be a pre-safety, pre-Marlington model, and they're hard to find in my local shop

I just like the idea of cutting down on how much "stuff" I'll need to stock to keep my guns fed and happy, simplification/consolidation is a good thing to me


**or Winchester, even, I'm going to use either stock irons or peeps, no scopes on leverguns for me, thanks....

 

[ACP]

Interesting. I've had this talk with myself before.

I had a Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum for years, traded it, I didn't handload or hunt and 'plinking' costs were killing me.

Since you reload, that over-the-counter factory cost is not an issue.

Re: capacity, that should be a non-issue for hunting. One shot, maybe two, and that's it -- unless you go chasing a wounded coy dog and his den mates decide to circle you.

The benefits to the .30-30 will be a flatter trajectory, farther range, more energy, and more available factory hunting rounds.

According to the Chuck Hawks Web site, a 150gr. .30-30 has a mean point blank range of 225 yards compared to 159 yards for the .44 Magnum 240-gr.
I know you plan on keeping your shots at 100-125 but who knows what opportunities might present themselves.

The .30-30 shoots 2.9 inches high at 100 yards and drops just half an inch at 200. The .44 Magnum drops 11.6 inches at 200 yards. Judging holdover with buckhorn irons can be a chore when your .44 Magnum cartridge drops 14 inches between 100 and 200 yards.

.30-30 energy is 858 ft. lbs. at 200 yards; the .44 Magnum is 661 ft. lbs. (about 23 percent more energy for the .30-30).

Re: the Marlin 1894, which I loved, the barrel twist is generally not considered fast enough to stabilize bullets over 300 grains. That is about the weight you start getting into "serious" hunting bullets (though I will admit many 240-gr. loads are excellent.)

You can take a 400-lb. game animal at 40 yards with a .30-30. It's about half that distance with a .44 Magnum.

What I finally convinced myself was: a .44 Magnum Ruger revolver for handgun hunting, and a .30-30 lever gun for rifle hunting. Both challenging, both fun, both worth having.

Hope this helps a bit in your decision-making process.

 

[MutinousDoug]

If I were you, and wanting to limit my calibers, I'd dump the .22 WMR, .44 mag, .45 Colt, and the 20 ga.
Keep the 30-30, 12 ga, .45ACP, .38SPL, .22LR and call it good if I didn't need a 300+ yd rifle.
As far as 30-30 over .44 mag? Flatter trajectory and terminal ballistics. Within 50 yds? A non issue.
Opinion? worth it's cost. HTH

 

[MutinousDoug]

OR,
What ACP said...
Doug

 

[wanderinwalker]

I have both the 1894 in .44 Magnum and a 336BL in .30-30 (made in New Haven, but new enough to be a Remlin).

IF I had to pick one, I'd be sorely tempted to keep the .30-30 and sell/trade the .44. The .30-30 has more range and a power edge, while not kicking any harder or being any more unweildy. I can hit the 200-yard plate at my range with the .30-30 without having to judge holdover. I used to know the hold-over with the .44, and it involved quite a bit "push the post to the top of the aperture, now put it on the top edge of the plate..."

On the other side, the .44 is a fun plinker and the 10-rounds on board may make it a bit better if you want a rifle to double for bedside duty. And it's a lot simpler to load .44 Magnum than bottle-neck rifle rounds.

Ah, heck, get both like I have and then try to decide which to keep! :banghead:

 

[Eb1]

Energy isn't really a big factor when it comes to 30-30 and .44 IMO out of a rifle. You'll have flatter shooting with the 30-30, but will still be 4" high at 100 yards for a 225 yard shot, and will be about 3-4" low then.
But the difference in the size of the hole makes a lot of difference, but I still prefer the 30-30 in a lever gun.

Here are my main differences.
30-30:
bottle neck cases (more case work when reloading)
better trajectory for longer shots

.44 Mag
straight wall cases (easier and quicker to reload)
not a very good 200 yard rifle (shoots like a rainbow)
probably shoots lead better because it isn't a micro grooved barrel like the 30-30 (if you're talking about a Marlin)

For woods hunting either. It is a moot accept that the 30-30 can be loaded with a 125 grain HP FN at 2500 fps that really does a number on deer. Really good vital damage, and good penetration. But with that said, it really is a moot unless you reload. If you're wanting to shoot a lot at ranges of 100 yards, and reload the .44 Magnum is probably a better pick just because of the ease of hand loading. Bottle neck cases are a pain in the behind for the 30-30. You have to always full length size them and trim. Not so with a .44 Magnum. It is also less expensive if shooting .44 Magnum because of the ballard rifling you can shoot lead better.

 

[Matthew Courtney]

If it were a mere head to head contest, I'd go with a .44 Mag. In fact, I did! But I have several bottlenecked centerfire rifle cartridge firing rifles in my collection. I cannot, in good conscience, recommend that any man limit his range to that which can be hit with pistol and rimfire cartridges.

If you want to scale down, get rid of the .38 special. It is the only thing you have that uses small primers. Cheaper plinking can be done with .22's.

In a pinch, there are several great pistol powders that work fine in a 30-30 and still give you better ballistics than a .44.

 

[68wj]

One of these days I will find someone at a gun show that wants to swap a .44 for my like new '94 .30-30. I don't see a whole lot of difference inside 100 yards. I might settle for a Savage 99 though.

 

[303tom]

Another thought excercise, what does .30-30 have over .44 Mag in a levergun?

Range.............On top of everything else.

 

[CaliCoastie]

i have both kinda, i have a 336 in 30-30, and a 336 in 44mag. as far as whats been said, marlin does use a slower twist than alot of companys, some people have had good luck with heavy loads and others not so much. I really enjoy my 44mag and she will shoot right at an inch at 100, she drops like a stone after 150yds.
You mentioned you reload, i like barnes in most of my rifles the TSX does a number on deer and drops them fast, with the 44mag the only barnes run 1$ a bullet, so i had to adjust.
Cast? well there are many people shooting lots of cast out of marlins micro groove barrels(95% of the ones on rifles probably) marlin switched back in the mid 50's to all of their rifles running micro groove barrels. There were ballards made from then on but thoses were part of different special runs.

One thing to note, i have been trying to match up my ruger redhawk and my 336-44mag on ammo and the only thing i have found that shoots good in both is the Winchester 240gn white box commercial ammo. good luck with you choices

 

[dusty14u]

I found a good article documenting the Hornaday Lever Revolution cartridges in 30-30. When using the Hornaday ammo there is no comparison between the 44mag and the 30-30 past 150 yds. There is a nice ballistics charts about halfway down with some impressive numbers. The article is actually covering the Mossberg 464 shooting the Hornaday ammo but I don't think there would be too much difference in the ballistics using a Winchester or a Marlin.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/mossberg-464-gun-review/

 

[Fleet]

Ammo availability. Any farm store worth its salt will have 30-30 on the shelf, same for lots of hardware stores etc. They will not have 44 mag, period. If you end up in a situation where you need a quick box for whatever reason, the 30-30 has the clear edge here.

 

[mortablunt]

The 30-30 is a rifle round. The 44 Magnum is a pistol round. The 30-30 will have: higher velocity, increased penetration, greater accuracy, latter trajectory, greater power, and wider availability.

 

[BBQLS1]

The 30-30 is a rifle round. The 44 Magnum is a pistol round. The 30-30 will have: higher velocity, increased penetration, greater accuracy, latter trajectory, greater power, and wider availability.

Everything I was going to say. You might ("might") argue power once the .44Mag exits a longer barrel, but I don't know if even then.


Don't get me wrong, I love .44 Mag leverguns, but they don't really stack up against the .30-30

 

[H&Hhunter]

The .30-30 is a center fire rifle round. The .44 mag is a pistol round. There is getting over that and the there is really no comparison between the two. The .30-30 is a more powerful more useable hunting tool plain and simple.

 

[Captain33036]

Well...a lot of ways to look at this. Here is one more:

Take the .44 and .38sp out of the equation. Replace with a .357/38 revolver and a Marlin 1894C 357/38 lever gun.

Since you reload and use the same bullets for your .45acp and .45 Colt, keep those. Taking .44 out is no loss in this regard.

Keep the 30-30 lever...it is just a fantastic hunting rifle that can take just about any game in North America out to 300 yards. Since you have that, why lose that capability? Just stock up on this ammo when you find good prices. You probably will not shot a lot of it...use the 357 lever in its place when and where applicable.

What you would gain: a revolver and carbine in the same caliber. Both could use inexpensive .38sp ammo. The Marlin 1894C 357 would be good for small and medium game under 100 yards, good for plinking, good all around rifle, not expensive to feed, uses very common ammo...easy to reload.

The 357 will be less expensive to shoot than the .44.

Use the 357mag lever for your lever gun shooting, instead of the 30-30 and save $. Use the 30-30 lever for hunting larger game or game to longer distances.

In doing the above, you have increased your capability while lowering your costs and reducing your logistical complexity.

Hope this helps

Best

J

 

[scotjute]

I have the .357 in both lever gun and pistol. It makes for a very good combination using 1 caliber ammo that is handy to travel with and has a lot of flexibility. You will get the advantage of that if you get .44 lever gun to match your pistol.
I'd recommend you get the .44 lever gun just for that alone. Try it for hunting, and either keep the .30-30 for longer ranges or sell it (or even trade it for a flatter-shooting scoped deer rifle).
Good luck.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

Isn't it interesting that (some) folks think, since a 30-30 Win. is a moderately capable/powerful rifle caliber & a .44 mag was once "the world's most powerful handgun (punk)", that the power-factor from the same platform HAS to be close to the same. I'm not spoiling for an argument about effectiveness. They're both fine calibers that overlap in some applications. But ballistic tables DO NOT lie.

 

[45_auto]

I like to keep my ammo and component stash as simple as possible, as few variables as possible

Since your main concern seems to be not having to stock additional components for the .30-30, it pretty much comes down to whether you want to move up to the performance of a rifle cartridge (.30-30), or whether you're satisfied with the performance of a pistol cartridge in a rifle (.44 Mag).

If you want the performance, you're going to have to stock a couple of additional components.

 

[Earlsbud]

Without the 30-30 you have no rifle cartridge in your line up. You have rifles chambered for pistol rounds. I would toss the 30-30 and look for a 308 or 30-06. IMO the 44Mag is a 50-75 yrd. brush gun for small white tail. At 100-150 yards I think a 30 caliber round would serve you better. Over penetration? Naaaaaaah...

 

[zackyholdem]

.444 marlin. It comes in a lever gun can and you can still use the same/similiar components as your other cartridges, Id take a .444 over the old 30-30 it puts a whooping on deer

 

[Dr.Rob]

Shoot them side by side, the 44 drops like a rock after 125 or so depending on your load. Sighting in a scoped 30-30 properly will give you a lot longer reach out to 250 or 300 yards.

 

[sugarmaker]

Either will work. If you want to shoot cast, go with the .44. If you want to shoot past 100 yards (out to 150 ish), go with the 30-30.

 

[BCRider]

Clearly the rifle owners are out in force in this thread....

I'll start out by saying that I'm not a hunter. I just shoot for fun at the range. But I've read these threads with intrest for some time.

Lots of folks are using handguns to take whitetail so clearly the .357Mag or .44Mag format has what it takes to get the kill. And using either from the longer barrel of a lever rifle is going to give the bullet a 200 to 250 fps boost. So clearly the use of these handgun rounds itself is fine.

The rifle cartridge fans are rightly pointing out that the drop past 130 to 150 yards will become excessive. But you already said that you'd be hunting at shorter distances. If this is valid due to the nature of your woods AND provided you can control yourself from taking a longer shot then the .44Mag should work out just fine. The trick will be to know your limit and judge the distance accuratley enough to work within the 130 to 150 yard limit. AND to let an animal go for later if you find that it's just a little farther out than your limit. That's where the self control comes in.

I'll also just add that the Rossi Win '92 clone is a little lighter and more compact than the Marlin 336 or Win '94. But like any '92 from the originals to the clones they do well to be slicked up a little by a smith that does work on cowboy action shooters. My own Rossi '92 worked just fine until I started trying to cycle it really fast in cowboy meets. Now it tends to pop the rounds up a little. Mind you I'm using .38Spl in the gun where I already know it reduces this trait if I use .357 cases. It may not be an issue at all with a .44Mag chambering that uses only .44Mag rounds.

And if you want REALLY light and compact these '92 clones come in 20 and 16 inch lengths as well as the original 22 or 24 inch length.

 

[jmr40]

At ranges UNDER 100 yards (probably closer to 50) I'd give a slight edge to the 44 in its ability to drop game. Beyond that the 30-30 is the better round. In my experience the 30-30 will also be considerably more accurate at any range and with less recoil.