Three of the more popular polymer frame pistols...a matter of prospective
- Thread starter whatnickname
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Wow! Over 150 polymer handguns and the g17 is the only one you trust your life to? That's definitely a statement of confidence in said pistol. I don't even own a 10th as many polymer guns as you and I trust them all with my life with the exception of maybe 1. Anything polymer from s&w, sig, fn, walther, hk, cz, and beretta is equally dependable as glock in my opinion. Ruger is ok, but I found the sr series was not as reliable as others from manufacturers previously mentioned and I have no experience personally with the American series of pistols, however they have good reviews.
stchman
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I own quite a few polymer pistols and I would trust my life to any one of them. If I didn't, I would get rid of it.
d2wing
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I took my new H&K VP 9 to the range today. I don't think I will ever need to buy another handgun. I don't think there is a better handgun made. Even Hickok .45 grudgingly admitted it would be the gun he would consider if he could only have one gun.
JohnBiltz
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You are putting words in his mouth. No where is the word "only" used. Its simply his preference. If I was trapped in an empty gun store and had to take a pistol off the shelf and defend myself it would be a Glock. If they were out of Glocks I'd probably grab a S&W or Walther and not worry about it other than I had not shot one in a very long time. But yes I'd prefer a Glock given a choice. If your EDC is a Glock your making the same choice. If its a S&W your making a different choice but everyone who carries makes that choice.
420Stainless
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I am old enough to remember when handgun manufacturers went out of their way to make asthetically pleasing, as well as functional and reliable firearms.
And I recall that a good trigger, out of the box, was a point of pride with two or three manufacturers.
These days, it seems expected that once you lay out your hard earned money for one of these plastic striker fired guns, you are going to have to rebuild it with aftermarket parts just to give it what the factory couldnt be bothered to.
No thank you. My handguns must not only be bet your life reliable, they must have good triggers and a hammer, be made of steel or alloy and be pleasing to look at.
Yes, I am a dinosaur. And the meteor is coming.
And I recall that a good trigger, out of the box, was a point of pride with two or three manufacturers.
These days, it seems expected that once you lay out your hard earned money for one of these plastic striker fired guns, you are going to have to rebuild it with aftermarket parts just to give it what the factory couldnt be bothered to.
No thank you. My handguns must not only be bet your life reliable, they must have good triggers and a hammer, be made of steel or alloy and be pleasing to look at.
Yes, I am a dinosaur. And the meteor is coming.
JONWILL
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The problem I have with Glocks is the grip angle.The Gen 4 fixed that. The plastic sights I don't like.
I like CZ's. I am biased toward them. First handgun I bought when I hit 21 was a TZ-75, that was before the CZ75 was imported into the country.
Always liked the way it felt in my hand.
That being said I really like the P-10c. My favorite plastic handgun I own. I hope they come out with a 22 conversion kit like the P-07 ande P-09
I like CZ's. I am biased toward them. First handgun I bought when I hit 21 was a TZ-75, that was before the CZ75 was imported into the country.
Always liked the way it felt in my hand.
That being said I really like the P-10c. My favorite plastic handgun I own. I hope they come out with a 22 conversion kit like the P-07 ande P-09
Winkman822
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I've had Glocks (23 Gen 3 (twice), 26 Gen 4, 19 Gen 4) in the past and still have a Gen 3 RTF 2 19 that isn't going anywhere. I do like the simplicity of the design and the ease of performing easy parts swaps and upgrades. I can shoot a Glock pretty well, but they just flat out don't fit my hand. I don't have big hands and the Glock just feels blocky, bulky, and cumbersome, particularly with the finger grooves. With my hand, the first finger groove under the trigger guard is right under my middle finger and my pinkie rides the second groove.
I've never owned a Smith and Wesson M&P because they have a pretty lousy trigger out of the box and I'm not terribly keen on the Apex trigger kit for the reasons listed in the OP...what should be an easy install can quickly become a complicated one thanks to a scavenger hunt for parts. What I will say of the M&P pistols that I've handled and shot is that the ergonomics are great for someone like me who's a 1911, Sig, or HK enthusiast.
I've owned a Springfield XD and while it was a great pistol that did exactly what it was supposed to do (put a bullet where the gun was aimed when the trigger was pulled so long as there was ammo in the magazine) it was just too bulky for me to comfortably carry.
My striker pistol hunt has ended with the Walther P99. I have two at the moment, a first generation gun that is in my carry gun rotation along with my Walther PPS and HK P30SK and P30L (when weather is such that I have the extra layers needed to carry the bigger gun). For me, the P99 with the small back strap fits my hand perfectly and even though the P99 has finger grooves, they are far less obtrusive than the finger grooves on the Gen 3 and 4 Glocks. I also like the ambidexterous paddle magazine release and the trigger on the P99 out of the box is nothing short of superb. The double action is smooth and predictable without being excessively stiff and heavy. The antistress mode is interesting as it behaves like a two stage AR trigger. Then there's the pure single action trigger...it's got minimal take up, a nice crisp, clean break and an oh so short reset that I submit will put any other out of the box striker fired pistol to shame. That's just my two cents and experience with the OP's identified three guns and what I found to be the best striker fired alternative for ME! As with all things gun related, or in life for that matter, your mileage may vary.
I've never owned a Smith and Wesson M&P because they have a pretty lousy trigger out of the box and I'm not terribly keen on the Apex trigger kit for the reasons listed in the OP...what should be an easy install can quickly become a complicated one thanks to a scavenger hunt for parts. What I will say of the M&P pistols that I've handled and shot is that the ergonomics are great for someone like me who's a 1911, Sig, or HK enthusiast.
I've owned a Springfield XD and while it was a great pistol that did exactly what it was supposed to do (put a bullet where the gun was aimed when the trigger was pulled so long as there was ammo in the magazine) it was just too bulky for me to comfortably carry.
My striker pistol hunt has ended with the Walther P99. I have two at the moment, a first generation gun that is in my carry gun rotation along with my Walther PPS and HK P30SK and P30L (when weather is such that I have the extra layers needed to carry the bigger gun). For me, the P99 with the small back strap fits my hand perfectly and even though the P99 has finger grooves, they are far less obtrusive than the finger grooves on the Gen 3 and 4 Glocks. I also like the ambidexterous paddle magazine release and the trigger on the P99 out of the box is nothing short of superb. The double action is smooth and predictable without being excessively stiff and heavy. The antistress mode is interesting as it behaves like a two stage AR trigger. Then there's the pure single action trigger...it's got minimal take up, a nice crisp, clean break and an oh so short reset that I submit will put any other out of the box striker fired pistol to shame. That's just my two cents and experience with the OP's identified three guns and what I found to be the best striker fired alternative for ME! As with all things gun related, or in life for that matter, your mileage may vary.
My point is 15 different manufacturers of polymer handguns are all probably as reliable as a glock these days. I've been carrying a G30S for the majority of this year, but I also have a usp, p320, and ppq's that get carried and used as nightstand guns as well. All of which are just as reliable as my glocks. I carry a G30S because the size and conceal ability is pretty much unmatched compared to any other 10+1 45acp handgun, not because it's some mythical gun that is the only polymer pistol that I trust my life with. The days of glock being the only reliable polymer pistol are long gone. I understand if glock is the platform you prefer because you are most proficient with it because that's the gun you have most experience with or whatever, but I'd feel equally confident grabbing any major brand polymer pistol in an emergency situation, not just a glock. You can always tell a fanboy is around when they make comments like, "if I'm trapped in a gun store and need a pistol I'm grabbing a glock". That's classic, or the ole "your 1911 is what you show your friends, your glock is what you show your enemies" lol. Why not grab a Hk mark 23 if trapped in a gun store, I mean that gun went through the most extreme testing that any handgun has ever went through and passed with flying colors. If you feel glocks are superior to hk's, walthers, sigs, m&p's, cz's, or fn's you might be a little delusional. Once upon a time glock was the best polymer striker fired pistol, no doubt but now they are just another good option. Thanks for getting me straight on my post I'm sure Madoka appreciates you speaking up for him.
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JohnBiltz
Member
And my point is you put words in his mouth that he did not say and went off on a rant about what was not said. Your still doing it.
Why not a HK, I don't particularly like them and don't shoot them well. Yes, I am a Glock fan boy. Its mostly what I shoot, so if I had to pick something else its going to be something similar. I had a Sig 226 as my main pistol for years and I liked it but its been a long time since I shot one. I've never shot a FN or CZ which pretty much is the norm for gun owners so not picking them. As it happens the first hand gun I ever shot was a 1911 and with no reference to any other handgun to compare it to hated it. Felt just awful in my hand. As I said in my post I'd take a S&W or Walther if a Glock was not available and not be concerned about it other than I had not shot them much. But they are certainly quality guns. I like Glocks, its not a sin.
Sauer Grapes
Member
I have 3 M&P pistols. They just have a feel I like. Yes they all have trigger work, but so do a lot of my other guns.
I have a G42 Glock, but I don't really count that one. Glocks just don't fit me. I do like the simplicity of them though.
Springfield is another gun I like, but I don't think their triggers are all that great either, so to me why bother. I also think they are over priced.
I'm another old school guy, I rather have a hammer fired steel or alloy gun.
BTW, nice post from the OP, I think he made some very valid points about all three.
I have a G42 Glock, but I don't really count that one. Glocks just don't fit me. I do like the simplicity of them though.
Springfield is another gun I like, but I don't think their triggers are all that great either, so to me why bother. I also think they are over priced.
I'm another old school guy, I rather have a hammer fired steel or alloy gun.
BTW, nice post from the OP, I think he made some very valid points about all three.
sigma 40ve
Member
Polymer?......Let me think, have owned 18 Glocks. Down to 17 now. Newest is a gen4 G19 OD Green frame. Wanted a gen5 but can't bring myself to get one due to the "non switchable" parts with other gens. Have a Steyr M9, Ruger SR45, SW Sigma 40, and 2 XD's in 9mm. Had a M&P 40, got rid of it, didn't care for it. Glock is what I prefer in polymer. Have 4 Keltec PF9's and , P32 and P40 also.
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OP
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whatnickname
Member
These are just my observations and my stated preference. None of the pistols mentioned in this thread are poor quality pistols. For the record, I also own a HK P2000, Ruger SR9c, KAHR CW9, SIG 2022 and a FNP 40. None of these are junk either. That said I did not comment on any of these as any observations I would make would be based on a sample of one and would hardly amount to any type of valid observations. I own 14 Glocks, 6 M&Ps and 4 Springfield XDs. I've shot all three brands extensively. I have worked on and or modified all three brands more times than I can count. After thousands of rounds over a period of 15 years, I'm pretty sure I've reached the point where I can base an opinion on a significant level of experience. Just so we're clear, I would not hesitate or shy away from using any of these handguns to defend life and limb. If I had a choice of a handgun that I would take to a gunfight it would be the Glock. That's my choice. That is no reflection on any choice that someone else cares to make.
Cooter Boolit
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This sucks, that sucks, you suck, we suck... good god... here we go again with all this forum bias BS.
Glock is popular ONLY because they got a head start into the tupperware world of plastic guns. Are they better than any other plastic gun, absolutely NOT. Glock has a HUGE fanboy base ONLY because glock made that happen, in turn for popularity early on. There are so many to chose from today in the gun market, and i thank glock for what they did, because its hard to find a gun maker today that HASN`T jumped on the plastic bandwagon, which gives us much more choices. They have ALL made some mistakes along the way, especially glock. But for someone to say that glock is the best gun, sorry, i dont buy into that BS. And yes, i own several glocks, do they serve my purpose, yes, do i think they are the best, absolutely not. There are many guns to chose from... take your pick, as its YOU that has to be happy with it and to put your trust into it to maybe safe your life one day, IF needed. I own MANY different hanguns... when your as old as i am, seen the fame come and go with all these guns, at the end of the day, i carry two brands, one on my hip, one strapped to my ankle. And i will not tell you which brands. All i will tell you is that they both are flawless with no hiccips. One is a 45 single stack, the other is a 9mm single stack... BOTH are striker fired weapons. Like a few of you had mentioned, the forums are full of people with alotta BS and bias sickness. What works for YOU, may NOT work for the next guy. If you think one single brand is the king, the end all, the perfect weapon, do everybody a favor, go make a samich and shut up. There is NO perfect world, there is NO perfect gun.
Glock is popular ONLY because they got a head start into the tupperware world of plastic guns. Are they better than any other plastic gun, absolutely NOT. Glock has a HUGE fanboy base ONLY because glock made that happen, in turn for popularity early on. There are so many to chose from today in the gun market, and i thank glock for what they did, because its hard to find a gun maker today that HASN`T jumped on the plastic bandwagon, which gives us much more choices. They have ALL made some mistakes along the way, especially glock. But for someone to say that glock is the best gun, sorry, i dont buy into that BS. And yes, i own several glocks, do they serve my purpose, yes, do i think they are the best, absolutely not. There are many guns to chose from... take your pick, as its YOU that has to be happy with it and to put your trust into it to maybe safe your life one day, IF needed. I own MANY different hanguns... when your as old as i am, seen the fame come and go with all these guns, at the end of the day, i carry two brands, one on my hip, one strapped to my ankle. And i will not tell you which brands. All i will tell you is that they both are flawless with no hiccips. One is a 45 single stack, the other is a 9mm single stack... BOTH are striker fired weapons. Like a few of you had mentioned, the forums are full of people with alotta BS and bias sickness. What works for YOU, may NOT work for the next guy. If you think one single brand is the king, the end all, the perfect weapon, do everybody a favor, go make a samich and shut up. There is NO perfect world, there is NO perfect gun.
First of all I'm not on a rant. I know what personal preference is and have my own. 150 polymer pistols is a lot of plastic guns, and to say a g17 is the one you trust your life to is a testament to the brand and pistol. Didn't mean to put words in his mouth or anyone else's. Other guns are just as reliable as glock while also having better ergonomics, triggers, and stock sights. Look at the inside of a ppq or p30/usp and tell me the quality isn't better than a glock. This is just my observation. Glock figured out how to make a gun cheaply and not sacrifice reliability, which is a good thing.
This pretty much sums it up for me, I knew it lol. I am a glock fan myself, but not a fanboy. I appreciate what glocks are and like them, but like every other handgun, I know they are not perfect. I slightly prefer walthers and Cz's, but neither make a 45 in the size of the G30S so that's why I choose to carry the glock over one of those.
Do yourself a favor and shoot a Cz one day. Not saying it will take the place of your beloved glocks, but you more than likely will shoot a Cz well and like it.
Fair enough, but I think we can agree a lot of people say the same about glocks. Heck I even work with two people who are not into guns and bought g19's just to own a 9mm handgun. They chose glock because of the reputation alone. They don't shoot often and don't shoot the g19's well either. I handed one my Cz 75B once and he was a much improved shooter that day. But like I said he is not into guns really and the added accuracy and shoot ability of the Cz really made him no difference and just resulted in him saying "that's a nice gun and it shoots nice, better than my glock". And off he went lol.
JohnBiltz
Member
The thing is its not about the G17 for me. The only G17 I own is a pre-ban Gen 2. Its about the G26. I carry a G26 and like your G30 there really is not a better ten shot carry gun. Everything comparable is just bigger. Its just something that Glock does right and no one else really comes close. In my mind its probably the best 9mm Glock makes and the best carry gun ever made by my criteria. A unique blend of size and fire power. Shoots way above its weight class.
MTMilitiaman
Member
Glock's popularity is a big advantage in and of itself. Maybe for some people ergonomics and reliability is all there is to a handgun. In those regards, yes, many other polymer strikers are equal to or better than Glocks. But if you have ever been burned by a proprietary design that you couldn't get serviced or find parts for, you consider other things. Like logistics. A lot of competing designs are much more complex and all competing designs lack the aftermarket support. The Glock is like the AR-15; you have a plethora of options out there that allow you to customize the design to your whims and the design is simple enough that most people with access to 10 minutes of Youtube videos or a simple manual can fix or replace anything that can go wrong with it, usually with little or nothing in the way of special tools. Glock is alone in this. Add to this their unprecedented modularity and the most complete lineup of models and calibers on the market, and there is a host of reasons that Glock is still in over 60% of law enforcement holsters and continues to be the defensive sidearm all others are compared to decades after Springfield took over the Croatian design, and HK and others started offering competing designs to the market. I understand there are other reliable designs out there and most of them have advantages over the Glock somewhere, but Glock is still Big Boy on the block because they offer advantages that none of the others have.
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