Thunder Ranch Specials?

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Thunder Ranch Specials
Any ideas why this model is not selling as well as predicted?"


I think the reason they're not selling is because -

1 - There is not enough gold on them and only on one side. (I like lots of gold on my Smiths)

2 - There is only one lock and only on one side. (I wish there were more locks on all Smiths and at least on both sides, if one is good 3 would be better)

3 - The hammer and trigger are made of metal. (I would rather have the trigger and hammer made of plastic - cheaper)

4 - Way too expensive. (Can't Smith cut some more corners to make these cheaper?)

I saw this question on the S&W forum. What do you think?
 
I had my mind set on getting one so I did :D

I don't care for the gold mark but I cannot afford to drop a couple of grand for a vintage 21. So I get the experience for half the price.

The less TR21s circulate the better for me right? :)
 
I saw one for sale two weeks ago for $800. The thing is, I'd love to have a fixed-sight, 4" N-frame .44 Special, but I can't stand the abominably tacky gold logo! :banghead: Now if S&W decides to offer these with an extra sideplate sans advertizing, I might feel impelled to buy one.

vanfunk
 
What is their 'predicted' sales? How many pieces have actually been sold?

I would expect that they need 3,000 pieces to break even, maybe make a little profit.

I have no idea how well S&W is doing with this model.
 
I think that the TRS is a perfect example of what can happen when a company's sales wonks make decisions without having the slightest idea about the preferences of the potential customers they are aiming the product at. Put bluntly, the sales force isn't made up of experienced and/or personally involved gunnies, and they seldom go out and ask.

I think there is a market for the basic gun that the TRS represents, but most of the buyers (or potential buyers) aren't interested in a gold-mounted commemorative. They want a revolver that is as close to the long discontinued model 21 that S&W can make. Such buyers are not going to put the gun on display, they are going to go out (gasp!!) and shoot it. Some might even carry it as a personal weapon. But the concept and execution of what Smith & Wesson has brought out is directly opposite from what was wanted. As a result sales may suffer, and it is unlikely the company will pursue the future production of fixed-sight, big-bore revolvers. As a result both the company and fans of this kind of handgun will be disappointed. It would help greatly if gun companies were run by knowledgeable gun people.
 
Fuff, there are some of us who are so perverted that we keep it on display, shoot it regularily and carry in on occasion in the wilds of ME and in the streets of New England cities. Egad. Reason is that there is nothing like it out there. A more pedistrian model would have been preferred, but at least this model is with us.

HiCap1
 
All you naysayers know you are officially turdsuckers in the eyes of Mr. Thunder Ranch hisself? :D
 
Well, now. If S&W would simply have made a plain-jane M21 square butt gun at a working man's price--they would have sold a boxcar full overnight.

I just bought a Ruger 50th anniversary flattop Blackhawk--a nice, practical, well made little gun. Paid just about half of what the TR M21 further down the case was priced at. If the S&W had been priced similarly reasonably I might have been tempted more.

Frankly I can get a nice M28 or M24 or even a Mtn. Gun for less than the 21 if I need to scratch my N frame itch. As it is the Ruger probably makes more sense for what I do anyway.

Not that I really needed it...
 
HiCap1:

Ya' sort'ta made my point .... :neener:

Yes, you did buy it, and yes you can carry it and even (gasp!!) shoot it. But the fact is you didn't really get what you wanted, but bought it in spite of that.

Unfortunately a lot of potential buyers aren't going too do what you did, because they're turned off so much. So what could have been a very popular revolver may turn out to be a bit flat, not because of the gun itself, but because S&W's management didn't really understand where the market was.

Just to rattle some chains, what would you think if S&W reintroduced the model 58 (N-frame/4" H.B./Fixed sights) in a moderized version and chambered in .44 Magnum, .44 Special. .45 ACP/Auto Rim, and .45 Colt? Probably this would be in stainless steel rather then blue (which would sadden me), but otherwise an updated model 21 of sorts. I suspect such a revolver would outsell the T.R.S. by 4 to 1 or better. What say???
 
Anyone got any idea how many dollars the gold emblem adds to the price? I saw one a while back and it was georgous.

Got to admit that I am saving up in case they come out with one in .45 ACP.
 
You betcha. The only thing better (and maybe not better, just different, in a good way) than a new production "stock" model 21 in .44 Special would be one in .45 ACP. Yowza.
 
Folks, the only people to blame for any sales problems - if there are sales projections that are being missed - are the marketing dept and the lawyers. I seriously doubt Clint said that he refused to participate unless it had a key lock, gold trim and a presentation case.

I think the man participated in the project because he thought it would be a neat gun from a few standpoints -

Fun
History
As good a pistol as you can find for SD

And I think he did it with the hope it would open a door to more models like it. Clint understands all we really have in life is time and I don't think he wastes much.

I've spent a little time with Clint in the classes I've taken at TR. All I can say to detractors of the school or the man, or the guns he manages to get into production for shooters... they don't understand. Not the man, or his wife, or their motivations.

Maybe because people like them are so rare, which is a tragedy.
 
Just to rattle some chains, what would you think if S&W reintroduced the model 58 (N-frame/4" H.B./Fixed sights) in a moderized version and chambered in .44 Magnum, .44 Special. .45 ACP/Auto Rim, and .45 Colt? Probably this would be in stainless steel rather then blue (which would sadden me), but otherwise an updated model 21 of sorts. I suspect such a revolver would outsell the T.R.S. by 4 to 1 or better. What say???
Click to expand...

I'll take one of each.

While you're at it Fuff, can you also get 'em to make it in a Scandium .45 Colt and .44 magnum? Skinny barrel?

I could retire my model 58's........
 
Just to rattle some chains, what would you think if S&W reintroduced the model 58 (N-frame/4" H.B./Fixed sights) in a moderized version and chambered in .44 Magnum, .44 Special. .45 ACP/Auto Rim, and .45 Colt?
Click to expand...
If it were NOT modernized, IF it were made the old way with hammer mounted firing pin and without a lock they would be best sellers no matter what the finish.
I know I'd want one of each except for .44 special. I'd even take one in .357 like the old Model 520. But alas unless some with real gonads buys the company such revolvers will never again be made under the S&W banner.

S&W has an uncanny knack for fixing stuff that wasn't broken.


What would REALLY rattle some chains would be if someone started a brand new company in the US making exact copies of traditional style S&W revolvers. Someone who had the nerve to out-S&W, S&W.
With all of the newfangled computer controlled machinery it would be a simple matter to produce them. Actually would probably be much cheaper than trying to buy S&W.

Hells Bells™ even if someone as far down the food chain as Taurus would produce an actual parts interchangable, pre-Lear Siegler N-frame clone in the above mentioned calibers, I'd buy them.
 
I don't know that S&W would turn back the clock so far as forged/machined lockwork and "the lock" are concerned, and I'm pretty sure we are going to be stuck with two-piece barrels, although thare are some advantages in this.

I would like what Blues Bear want's too. But I also know this would add some 30 to 50 percent to the price - mostly in labor costs. That's why I specifically said a "modernized" model 58 platform.

Could Taurus make their version of a model 58 in the previous stated chamberings? Yes they could, and if enough letters, phone calls, and e-mails came in they might. They love to twist Smith & Wesson's tail while making money at the same time. They have made runs of their Tracker model with a 4" unported barrel and fixed sights, in .45 ACP and .45 Colt. Not exactly what Blues Bear ordered, but a step in the right direction.

While we are at this we could also throw in mooncliped 10mm auto and .40 S&W.

I rather doubt that any new companies are going to get into revolver-making in a big way. Of course this is something a lot of us would like to see, but GOOD, high-quality revolver are expensive to make in today's economy and the handgun market is continuing to turn toward hi-cap automatics.

But anyway, Blues Bear would seem to represent a market segment Smith & Wesson is losing because they don't seem to understand what some potential customers want. Some of they're desires might be unreasonable from a cost/price point of view, but they all aren't. Obviously, making wrong marketing decisions can and will cost the company money, and they do have some shart competitors out there ... :evil: :)
 
A quick tangetial question here: does anyone know of an actual problem with the lock on the S&W revolvers, or is more a "what if" concern. I can live with it if it just an objection to having a lock on the gun, or concerns over "what if...". But, if there have been actual mechanical problems, then I'll shop for older/used models.
 
Pangris wrote:

I seriously doubt Clint said that he refused to participate unless it had a key lock, gold trim and a presentation case.

I think the man participated in the project because he thought it would be a neat gun from a few standpoints -

Fun
History
As good a pistol as you can find for SD

And I think he did it with the hope it would open a door to more models like it.
Click to expand...

I'm sure that's right. From what we know of both parties, odds tremendously favor it being S&W, not Clint Smith, that tacked the dumb stuff on to the original fine concept.

What Mr. Smith is responsible for, however, is his vulgar and immature behavior in print after the gun came in for criticism. Doesn't make him a bad teacher or a bad man (though it sure did make me less likely to take a class from him). Just means he embarrassed himself once, severely, in the pages of American Handgunner. Life moves on.
 
CAS700850:

There have been several recent threads concerning the Smith & Wesson lock, as well as others. Use the forum search feature and the key word "lock" to find them.
 
But anyway, Blues Bear would seem to represent a market segment Smith & Wesson is losing because they don't seem to understand what some potential customers want.
Click to expand...

I agree. But when I've talked to Smith at the Shot Show, they're adamant that 4" fixed sight guns don't sell. They might be right. After all, the original model 58 didn't sell well. I wonder if there's enough of us to produce these guns. The young guys I know don't have any interest in them.
 
Any ideas why this model is not selling as well as predicted?
Click to expand...

Are we sure this is true?

I don't see what all of the fuss is about. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

I liked it when I read about it, ordered it, and still like it now that I own it.

SWTR214_target.jpg
 
We're a funny bunch.

Once there was the 696, a nice little revolver that everybody NOW wants. But yet, it was killed. Lack of sales? Where were all the 44 Spl fans then?

Much earlier than that was the 624. Heavily discounted in the end when they were trying to get rid of them. Again, where were the aficionados?

I guess not everybody will go out and buy a S&W 44 Spl. At least not enough to justify making these guns into anything more than limited production items.

If we look at vintage 21 sales numbers, well, the gun was an outright flop. 1200 units in a 16 year run (it might be the other way around). Even back then, nobody wanted them. So it probably doesn't really matter what Smith made today. It's a limited appeal gun.
 
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