Thunder Ranch Specials?

[BluesBear]

After all, the original model 58 didn't sell well.

Well 20,000 in a 13 year period doesn't sound like much but you have to consider that the .41 magnum has developed quite a following since 1977.
Also in 1977 there were only two factory loads available. And not exactly a wide variety of jacketed bullets was available then either.

Try to find a model 58 at a decent price today.
Taurus didn't seem to have any trouble selling a fixed sight .41. I bought one.
I was forced to buy it in stainless since they didn't make them in blue.

The .41 magnum has never been more popular than it is today.
S&W has even seen fit to produce a BLUED model 57 mountain gun for this year.


Also I believe S&W has sold every single Thunder Ranch Special they've produced. And I don't see them languishing on the shelves at CDNN.

 

[Elmer]

Also I believe S&W has sold every single Thunder Ranch Special they've produced. And I don't see them languishing on the shelves at CDNN.

I agree. But notice Taurus has discontinued most of their fixed sight guns. And 20,000 in a 13 year period when revolvers were most of the market.

We're on the same team. But the longer you are around this stuff, the less you like what the average guy likes.

 

[pangris]

P. Plainsman said -

I'm sure that's right. From what we know of both parties, odds tremendously favor it being S&W, not Clint Smith, that tacked the dumb stuff on to the original fine concept.

What Mr. Smith is responsible for, however, is his vulgar and immature behavior in print after the gun came in for criticism. Doesn't make him a bad teacher or a bad man (though it sure did make me less likely to take a class from him). Just means he embarrassed himself once, severely, in the pages of American Handgunner. Life moves on.

You make a very interesting post -

Clints comments were very simply directed toward the people that couldn't look on the bright side. As you said - original fine concept. Clint seemed to be happy to get it produced simply because it was a .44 special, fixed sight, skinny barrel, blue gun. In the end, the cosmetic plate and the lock simply aren't the end of the world if you want a gun in that configuration. The $700-800 price really is a total non issue in my mind. Most TR clients spend more than that revolver costs on *airfare and car* rental to go to TR. All said and done, it is easy to spend $2,000 on a TR trip and you wouldn't have to try hard to spend $4,000 if you live on the opposite side of the country (me) and want to take a tutorial and a class at the same time (also me).

I can also say with some degree of certainty that not even among his closest friends is the man vulgar or immature.

But as they say, no good deed goes unpunished. Some people refused to look at all the good the project accomplished and had to B&M. Then Clint said -perhaps a little frustrated? - if it looks like a turd sucker, walks like a turd sucker, and sounds like a turd sucker.... well, truer words, never spoken.

And FWIW, Turd Suckers are out there. I meet them every day. Can't stand them & can't shoot them, so I try hard to avoid them once making a positive ID.

 

[BluesBear]

But notice Taurus has discontinued most of their fixed sight guns.

Actually Taurus has suspended production of ALL of their five shot big bore snub nose revolvers until they can catch up with all of the new models they have introduced. Most of them will return. It's somewhat akin to Colt temporarily dropping the Anaconda and moving the Python Elite over to the Custom Shop until they can retool and catch up.

For Taurus it seems the Gaucho Single Action revolvers, the extra small frame 9mm revolvers, The Thunderbolt rifle (Colt Lightning), and the PT1911 are straining both capability and resources. Combine this with the off side possibility of the Triad and .44-Ten actually seeing the light of day and one can understand Taurus' dilemma.

After all for many, many years S&W produced all of their guns via the "batch" process too.

 

[GaryP]

Thunder Ranch Specials
Any ideas why this model is not selling as well as predicted?

Are You Sure about this?

Also I believe S&W has sold every single Thunder Ranch Special they've produced. And I don't see them languishing on the shelves at CDNN.

So which is it? Are they selling or not?

 

[Titus]

Some people refused to look at all the good the project accomplished and had to B&M. Then Clint said -perhaps a little frustrated? - if it looks like a turd sucker, walks like a turd sucker, and sounds like a turd sucker.... well, truer words, never spoken.

Takes one to know one, I guess then.

 

[Elmer]

Actually Taurus has suspended production of ALL of their five shot big bore snub nose revolvers until they can catch up with all of the new models they have introduced. Most of them will return.

If true, that's good news. But with CDNN having them at below wholesale prices, it looked more like a closeout then a temporary lull in production.

I still think we're in the minority here. I really don't think the average buyer cares about these guns.

BTW, for what it's worth, in my limited contact with Clint Smith, he was very polite and respectful.

 

[pangris]

Takes one to know one, I guess then.

Hmmm... I can identify mosquitos, spiders, and lawyers, and I'm none of the those. Just had bad experiences with all of them and know to avodi them. Theory doesn' hold water.

 

[B36]

Wonder why my dealer has sold 15?

Hard to find, middle of nowhere, total shop area including gunsmithing and reloading area, about 300 square feet.

Guess we in the midwest are just easy to fool?? Or ?

 

[Magnum88C]

I think the biggest downfall is that damned sideplate. Anyone know if it's possible to order a plain sideplate for it? Be nice if they'd just swap even.

What I don't understand if why they just didn't put a blackened logo on the grips like the TR 1911s.

Also, the price of the TR S&Ws isn't bad if you look at the price of the TR 1911s.

They didn't kill it with a two-piece barrel (I mean if Ruger can use a two-piece barrel on their new Alaskan SRHs so that you can hardly tell it, why couldn't S&W? OK, different rant), and the lock, well, you can't see it unless you're holding the thing (black lock on deep blued gun), and come right down to it, you can grind the post off that the lock engages, so that even if the mysterious mythical "auto engage" of the lock happens. . .nothing happens. So the lock isn't really a problem.

As for Mr. Smith's turdsucker comment. He's calling it like he sees it. I found it rather refreshing personally. I mean rough and tumble gun guys shouldn't wet themselves when someone doesn't use poetic language or flowery euphemism, but rather calls a spade a spade. I'd rather take a class on gunfighting with someone who shoots straight (whether I agree with his assessment or not) than someone who knows more about flowery writing than guns (like MOST gun rag writers).

 

[Titus]

Hmmm... I can identify mosquitos, spiders, and lawyers, and I'm none of the those. Just had bad experiences with all of them and know to avodi them. Theory doesn' hold water.

Ha! I just meant that if I got S&W to make a gun just for me, with my name on the side in gold, I wouldn't be writing an article about other people not being able to look on the bright side.

 

[denfoote]

Ask and ye shall receive!!

Got to admit that I am saving up in case they come out with one in .45 ACP.

The new Les Baer CustomThunder Ranch 1911 is a serious, no-nonsense self-defense pistol conceived by Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch, one of the premier training facilities dedicated to teaching people how to survive in a tough, unfriendly world. Clint Smith cares about good guns and he's concerned that his students are equipped with reliable, accurate guns they might one day have to trust with their lives. That's why Clint Smith approached Les Baer about developing a dependable, combat-proven 1911 with which he and his students could feel completely confident. So, Clint Smith specified the features he wanted and Les Baer built it. The result is a distinctive yet practical 1911 that's ideal for personal defense and a source of price for the owner. Features include:

Baer steel NM frame • Baer forged steel NM slide with front and rear serrations • Slide fitted to frame • Baer forged NM barrel with stainless match bushing • LBC deluxe fixed combat rear sight with Tritium inserts • Baer dovetail front sight with tritium insert • Lowered and flared ejection port • Baer checkered slide stop • Baer extended ejector • Standard style thumb safety (extended ambi for left handed shooters) • Baer aluminum match trigger • Baer deluxe Commander hammer and sear • Crisp 4 lb. pull • Baer tuned bar stock extractor • Baer beavertail grip safety with pad • Deluxe high checkered front strap at 30 lpi • Flat checkered mainspring housing • Beveled magazine well • Polished feed ramp and throated barrel • Complete pistol rounded for tactical use • Blue finish on complete pistol • Deluxe special slim line grips with thunder Ranch logo (not available with extended ambi safety) • (3) Stainless steel 7-round premium magazines • Special Thunder Ranch logo engraved on slide • Special serial numbers with "TR" prefix

 

[BluesBear]

Denfoote, I think KNZN was meaning a revolver in .45acp.

A reissue of the 1917 (later called the Model 22) would sell very well.

 

[knzn]

Yep, was talking about a .45 acp revolver, but would love a Les Baer 1911 too!

 

[mec]

I've seen several of these and was present when several skilled shooters were shooting one. The people who have them are big time revolver enthusiasts and like them very well. they also do good work with them. I thought the polish and blue looked nice but didn't like the blocky profile of the sights. I like the early Smith fixed sights better.

The factories can now break even on a much smaller number of guns what with CNC manufacturing. I bet they aren't loosing any money on the TR specials. A couple of years ago, they produced the Heritage Series with production of most of the guns in this line numbering in the hundreds. My Heritage 24 from the first run is now worth less than I paid for it even though the total production run was 304 units. Rare, but nobody's impressed because all it would take to make a bunch more would be keying in thte right program.

Interestingly enough from the Turd Sucker perspective, American Handgunner monthly circulation fell by 3300 during the six month period when the great turdsucker eruption took place. This is a bigger number than the 2500 TS Specials that one former S&W employ told me might eventually be produced.

 

[SHOOT1SAM]

Just off the top of my head, in the last 6 months or so, I've had/have 15 semiautos and....2 revolvers, so, I'm not a revolver guy by any stretch of the imagination. That being said, I want the T/R .44 special. It has captivated me from the moment I saw it in American Handgunner.

It is my understanding that a sideplate can be ordered to replace the gold T/R logo, and that the problems with the lock on S&W's has only been on the small, very lightweight revolvers shooting full house loads.

Also, I'm not a big Clint Smith fan, but I understood perfectly his turdsuckers comment. For all those people who bemoan the discontinuing of the "old" guns, here comes as retro of a model as we're likely to get, from any gun company , and all they can do is complain because it isn't exactly like the original. In the olden days, we'd have said something like they'd bitch if we hung them with a new rope . I never once took his comments to mean that if you didn't like the revolver, you were a turdsucker.

Further, I have a hard time accepting that American Handgunner's circulation dropped by that much strictly because of Smith's turdsucker comment. IMNTBHO, it has a helluva lot more to do with Roy Huntington as Editor-in-Chief. To me, he was an okay writer, but he's a pompous, disrespectful, smart aleck of an editor, and the magazine has suffered because of this.

Sam

 

[armedcitizen]

It could have been worse....

My understanding is that Smith originally wanted to put Clint's signature on the barrel in gold and he was able to talk them out of that. I think the TR logo looks good on the revolver. Besides, when I'm pointing it down range
I can't see the lock or the logo.

Those that say they'll never own a revolver with a lock are in denial. Locks are here to stay.

 

[HiCap1]

Old Fuff, I agree with your comments about the modernized 21 in all the calibers you suggested. I'd even like to se a .38 spec. on a .44 frame. (I just bought and put 300 rounds through a new model 10 after a trigger job. Back to the future works).

HiCap1

 

[Old Fuff]

I have no idea if Smith & Wesson is going to have any more interest in large-frame/fixed sight revolvers at all. But I would assume that if they did they'd want to make the platform compatable with their current production methods, including the two-piece barrel. The nearest thing that meets this description would be an updated stainless steel model 58 in various chamberings, the most likely being .44 Magnum (and by extension, .44 Special), .45 ACP and .45 Colt. Turning out a fixed sight N-frame depends on how the topstrap is milled on the frame forging. Any remaining expense would have too do with making barrels, but by using tubes with different bores that could stick with one basic shroud. The cylinder would be the same as used in any other current N-frame. This configuration would not involve substantial tooling costs so if they saw a market they might (just might) go for it.

But potential customers will have to make their interst known to the company. I'm not sure they would think of this themselves.

Another possibility might be a special run for one of they're major distributors. If a distributor placed a substantial order S&W wouldn't face any financial risk.

I, and I think others, would be more interested in this then another gold-trimmed commemorative.

 

[Z_Infidel]

It is my understanding that a sideplate can be ordered to replace the gold T/R logo

When I asked a S&W representative about this, I was told "No".

 

[Elmer]

Further, I have a hard time accepting that American Handgunner's circulation dropped by that much strictly because of Smith's turdsucker comment. IMNTBHO, it has a helluva lot more to do with Roy Huntington as Editor-in-Chief. To me, he was an okay writer, but he's a pompous, disrespectful, smart aleck of an editor, and the magazine has suffered because of this.

??????!!!!!


Roy's an ex real street cop who's self effacing, intelligent, and doesn't cow-tow to the advertisers. The BS quotient in both GUNS and Handgunner dropped dramatically since he took over. But telling the truth often irritates people. It's safer to just write glowing articles about everything. That way, you can take a job with one of the companies you've been shilling for.

This is the first I've heard of any subscription drops. My understanding is, subscriptions are dramatically up since he took over. I know the folks who own the magazine. I'll call and get the numbers to see if this is just more Internet drivel. I doubt they would have moved him up the ladder if the numbers didn't justify it.

 

[Big Bad Wolf]

It is my understanding that a sideplate can be ordered to replace the gold T/R logo

I think what most are doing who object to the bling plate is ordering the Model 25 Mountain Gun sideplate and replacing the bling plate with that. I am not 100% for sure on that though.

Personally I like the gun and have plans to acquire one when I run across the deal that I can't refuse. I like the retro design and give credit to both S&W and TR for bringing this interesting project to fruition.

I generally fall under the favored opinion that this project has been a failure though. Why? Because items in demand go up and not down in pricing especially after it was dropped in a single year by the factory.

 

[Elmer]

Further

Further, I have a hard time accepting that American Handgunner's circulation dropped by that much strictly because of Smith's turdsucker comment. IMNTBHO, it has a helluva lot more to do with Roy Huntington as Editor-in-Chief. To me, he was an okay writer, but he's a pompous, disrespectful, smart aleck of an editor, and the magazine has suffered because of this.

I called and checked. Subscriptions are up 15% since Huntington took over. There has been no drop due to Clint Smith's comments, or any other reason.

As I suspected, Internet drivel.......

 

[Eskimo Jim]

Not long ago I was looking for a new firearm and looked seriously at the TRS, 629 and a Winchester 9422.

For the price of the TRS at $750 or so, I could have bought the 629 and had more versatile handgun. Also, the 629 was about $100-125 less than the 629.

Then I looked at ammunition. In order to become proficient with .44 special or .44mag, I'd have to reload so add in $100 for some dies and reloading supplies. Then I'd also want a holster etc. So out the door I'm probably in the ball park of $900 for the TRS or about $800 for the 629.

I ended up getting the Winchester because out the door the cost was remarkably cheaper for me right now.

Some day I'll pick up the 629. The TRS is just no longer on my 'to buy' list. I'm sure it is a nice revolver however the 629 can do everything the TRS can do and then some.

Also, I didn't care much for Clint Smith calling everyone who didn't like or criticized the TSR foul names. That topic has been debated to death already though.

I don't like the products of other manufacturers or endorsers but I don't hear them calling potential customers foul names. I wonder if Smith's comments turned off some potential buyers?

-Jim

 

[P. Plainsman]

Subscriptions are up 15% since Huntington took over. There has been no drop due to Clint Smith's comments, or any other reason.

Well, here's what mec posted:

American Handgunner monthly circulation fell by 3300 during the six month period when the great turdsucker eruption took place.

Subscriptions could be up overall since Huntington took over (which has been a few years) and still have dipped during the six-month period that included Smith's outburst. The two stats are not obviously inconsistent.

As for this:

As I suspected, Internet drivel.......

To understate the matter, "drivel" is not a word I associate with Mike's posts or other writings.