Thunder Ranch Specials?

[mec]

"As I suspected, Internet drivel......."

http://abcas3.accessabc.com/ecirc/index.html


Possibly, but:

Bacon's Magazine Directory 2001 171,581

Audit Bureau of Circulation
December 2003 - 107,361
June 2004 - 106,810
December , 2004- 103,555

Maybe they've gained it all back in the last six months. And maybe, the abc trends based on monthly paid circulation reflect a fall-off in newstand sales.

G&A Handguns:
12/ 2003 -128,641
6/2004 - 120,796
12/2004 - 115,033

Meanwhile Guns magazine
Bacon’s Magazine Directory 2001 168,000
Up from 73,186 June 2004 to 77-Dec 04
Guns and Ammo
Bacon’s Magazine directory 2001 607,971
Up from 454,442 to 454,074 same six month period
Shooting Times
Bacon’s Magazine Directory 2001 202,410
Down from 175,873 to 172,731

The Bacon's magazine report was supposed to be based on 2001 figures but it could be they were drawing from an earlier data base. the ABC figures are numbers for total monthly circulation reported by the magazine publishers themselves and then subject to verification by audit.
It just looks like the general gun magazines have reached bottom and started back up- at least in a couple of cases while the Handgun specialty Mags declined a bit farther. Guns and Ammo has maintained overall circulation rates by putting their magazines close to the sporting goods section in Wall Mart and near check out in some gun stores.

The downward trend started before Huntington took over AH - at a time when all magazine circulation was in a big slump. Can't use the audit bureau figures to tell whether he as been a positive influence on circulation or a negative one. One thing for sure though, the Model 21 TR Special thing has certainly gotten a huge amount of cyber-space since it came out.

 

[BluesBear]

Each S&W sideplate is fitted to a particular frame. It's not just a matter of swapping them yourself.

In a phone conversation I had with S&W back before my accident I was told that one could sent a gun back and have another sideplate fitted. However there would be a charge.

If it was me and I hated that logo so much I'd just remove it and reblue the sideplate. Gold is rather easy to dissolve ya know.


Personally, I am still waiting for the Black Hills 250gr .44 Special ammo that was supposed to be released with the S&W 21-4 TRS.
The sights on the TRS are supposed to be regulated for that load.
I think it would be a great load for my 3" Model 29 as well as my 2" Taurus.

 

[SnWnMe]

FWIW, my 25 and my 21 swapped sideplates like a couple of swingers. But there is a difference in finish as the 21 is more polished.

The 25:

The 21:

Link: The TR21 and it's lousy trigger pull in action

No gunsmith job and light springs. Just a good polish of the insides and lots of dry fire.

 

[SHOOT1SAM]

Elmer wrote:

Roy's an ex real street cop who's self effacing, intelligent, and doesn't cow-tow to the advertisers. The BS quotient in both GUNS and Handgunner dropped dramatically since he took over. But telling the truth often irritates people. It's safer to just write glowing articles about everything. That way, you can take a job with one of the companies you've been shilling for.

This is the first I've heard of any subscription drops. My understanding is, subscriptions are dramatically up since he took over. I know the folks who own the magazine. I'll call and get the numbers to see if this is just more Internet drivel. I doubt they would have moved him up the ladder if the numbers didn't justify it.

Elmer, I know Roy is a former police officer; that, in and of itself, doesn't mean he's a great gun writer, let alone a good magazine editor. In my opinion, he is an arrogant, pompous, smartassed editor. That doesn't take anything away from his service on the Thin Blue Line, I just personally think he's not very good as the Editor-in Chief of American Handgunner magazine; his style simply doesn't appeal to me, but, as I'm sure you know, no one can please everyone.

Further, the Von Rosens have ALWAYS stood behind their editors & writers and have never let GUNS or American Handgunner be unduly influenced by their advertisers, so Roy really doesn't deserve any extra credit there. I subscribe to both magazines precisely because they DON'T write glowing articles, no matter what, and they've been doing that long before Huntington & Jim Gardner became the current editors.

Respectfully,
Sam

 

[mec]

Semi-related. There's a recent announcement that the Von Rosen house is about to publish a new magazine called " American Cop."

http://www.gunsmagazine.com/links.html

The falling circulation numbers are real but may not be important to their overall big picture if they are confident enough to issue another title. It would seem to be a good time to withdraw from the Audit Bureau though.

 

[Elmer]

Elmer, I know Roy is a former police officer; that, in and of itself, doesn't mean he's a great gun writer, let alone a good magazine editor.

True. But Huntington's been writing for more than 20 years, and he was the editor for Police magazine before he went to Handgunner. He was also an academy instructor, and a competetive shooter. (Who outshot me several times....) I do tend to trust people who have actually done things they write about.

Further, the Von Rosens have ALWAYS stood behind their editors & writers and have never let GUNS or American Handgunner be unduly influenced by their advertisers, so Roy really doesn't deserve any extra credit there. I subscribe to both magazines precisely because they DON'T write glowing articles, no matter what, and they've been doing that long before Huntington & Jim Gardner became the current editors.

Sam........ You're kidding right? You mean when Cameron Hopkins turned Handgunner into Surefire Magazine, before he took a job with them? (And then published a Handgunner look-alike catalog for them.) Or when a "famous gunwriter" flogged a boutique ammo company in his "articles" in Handgunner for years without mentioning he was the East coast distributor for them?

You don't see that kind of crap in Handgunner today.

If you don't like him, fine. I was just responding to the comments about subscriptions being down.

And mec, as to the subscriptions today, I was given the figure of 121,000. Roy Huntington's email is in the front of the magazine. Why don't you email him for a written response? Bacon's information is not correct.

 

[Elmer]

The falling circulation numbers are real but may not be important to their overall big picture if they are confident enough to issue another title.

I don't think the "falling circulation numbers" are real.

And Von Rosen is putting Huntington in charge of the new magazine as well....

 

[mec]

The former editor, Cameron Hopkins used to be very good at making readers, advertisers, and gun companies Really Mad. People hung up their subscriptions in droves. In spite of that, the magazine grew, Hopkins was cited by one of the AH writers as the best editor of specialized enthusiast magazine. The bottom fell out of the magazine market in 2001 and neither Hopkins nor Huntington can be blamed for that. Both of them were pretty fair writers. Hopkins PO'ed the readership by supporting Smith and Wesson during the big flap over the company's anti gun ownership. Then Huntington pissed one of the magazines advertises when he wrote that their concealment holster redefined the word " Squeeze Cocker." From what I've heard, the major guild gunsmiths are very happy with Huntington- or were when he first came on, because he is enthusiastic about high quality revolvers.

Hopkins said some things about Clark barrels that prompted Clark to file suit on the magazine. AH failed to show up in court and Clark won a default judgement. Von Rosen didn't get upset and his operating drill seemed to be " If it's true, print it." Hopkins was a real Von Rosen enthusiast after that.

The Audit Bureau of Circulation seems to be intended to give advertisers a basis for deciding where to place their advertising money. The publishers voluntarily subscribe to the service and submit circulation figures every six months. Guns, American Handgunner, The NRA Publications, Guns and Ammo, Shooting Times and Shotgun News are all members.

If the Audit Bureau is grossly under reporting circulation and falsely reporting a decline, then these members would do well to withdraw from ABC.


Circulation averages for the six months ended:
12/31/2004
Publication Name
Paid Circulation Analyzed
Non-Paid Circulation Total Paid and
Analyzed Non-Paid
Circulation Filing Status
HANDGUNS 115,033 115,033

Circulation averages for the six months ended:
12/31/2004
Preliminary figures subject to audit as filed with the Audit Bureau of Circulations.
Publication Name
Paid Circulation Analyzed
Non-Paid Circulation Total Paid and
Analyzed Non-Paid
Circulation Filing Status
AMERICAN HANDGUNNER 103,555 103,555

http://abcas3.accessabc.com/ecirc/index.html

 

[Elmer]

The former editor, Cameron Hopkins used to be very good at making readers, advertisers, and gun companies Really Mad

Apparently, Surefire was so mad at Hopkins they hired him......

People hung up their subscriptions in droves. In spite of that, the magazine grew

mec.... Is it just me...... or is that a little confusing?

I think we can drop this. According to my source at the magazine, subscriptions are up. Without the heavily discounted promotions the other mags do. Handgunner doesn't do the Publisher's Clearing House type deals. I suggested emailing Huntington for his written response, you could then paste it in here.

 

[mec]

I'll agree that we've beaten this one just about to death. Sorry to have hijacked somebody's TR special thread.

 

[SHOOT1SAM]

Elmer wrote:

Quote:
Further, the Von Rosens have ALWAYS stood behind their editors & writers and have never let GUNS or American Handgunner be unduly influenced by their advertisers, so Roy really doesn't deserve any extra credit there. I subscribe to both magazines precisely because they DON'T write glowing articles, no matter what, and they've been doing that long before Huntington & Jim Gardner became the current editors.

Sam........ You're kidding right? You mean when Cameron Hopkins turned Handgunner into Surefire Magazine, before he took a job with them? (And then published a Handgunner look-alike catalog for them.) Or when a "famous gunwriter" flogged a boutique ammo company in his "articles" in Handgunner for years without mentioning he was the East coast distributor for them? End quote.


Elmer, perhaps we're talking apples & oranges here. My point was that if a writer criticsized a gun or other product & the advertiser demanded a retraction or they'd pull their ads, the Von Rosens would stand behind their writers.

Sam

 

[mec]

"Why don't you email him for a written response? Bacon's information is not correct."

No need. I cede the point. Here is the official circulation report-numbers toward the bottom.
http://www.americanhandgunner.com/admarkmd.html

 

[Quinch]

FWIW, There's a "Clint Special" still rotting on a shelf here locally for $780. Been there for months.

 

[mec]

I think they've done pretty well though. There's some talk of putting out the 21 with a plain sideplate. Last month, I did the recertification in the Texas Concealed Handgun instructors program. The State Troopers who run the class have decades of patrol work, SWAT team and hostage negotiation experience and officer training. They study shootings with a view to improving the DPS training program. Both are enthusiastic graduates of Thunder Ranch, Oregon. Clint Smith's videos are approved for Texas CHL training as are those of Massad Ayoob and Jeff Cooper.

 

[Cosmoline]

The recent VW commercials with Peter Stormare have reminded me of this whole episode

 

[Marshall]

All I can say to detractors of the school or the man, or the guns he manages to get into production for shooters... they don't understand. Not the man, or his wife, or their motivations.

Not that I am a detractor of his, but if his motivations are so pure, why does the gun he helped design bare his businesses logo, in huge gold no less? I wonder if he turned down any financial gain or royalties?

 

[P. Plainsman]

Not that I am a detractor of his, but if his motivations are so pure, why does the gun he helped design bare his businesses logo, in huge gold no less? I wonder if he turned down any financial gain or royalties?

It's been reported in print (I think by Clint Smith himself as well as others) that the big ugly gold logo was not Mr. Smith's idea; it was some bonehead product designer at S&W's.

He shouldn't get blame for that.

Notice that in the more recent Model 22 Thunder Ranch revolver in .45 ACP, the gold logo is off the gun frame. The logo is cut into the revolver's removable wooden grips, in a much more restrained and tasteful fashion.

It's reasonable that the logo would show up somewhere. My understanding that S&W wanted the TRS to be marketed as a crossover between the two "brand names," at least as much as Clint Smith did. Both expected to benefit from the association.

I've been critical of Clint in other threads here, but he is doing a good turn for old-school sixgun lovers through his collaboration with S&W.

Blued-steel fighting revolvers with a TR tie-in si; ugly gold frame logos no! Sounds fair to me.